EP 48 · 2023-04-03 · 59:35
How EllisDon Atlantic Wins Complex Projects — Design-Build Strategy, Labour Shortage, and Owner Budget Reality | Ep. 48
EllisDon Atlantic's Chief Estimator and Senior VP pull back the curtain on design-build pursuit strategy, the Atlantic labour crunch, and why lump-sum bidding no longer fits their model.
TR
Travis Rudolph
⟶ The story, written up — a sharp read with every fact on the record. Or skip straight to the moments that matter, as clips.
// CHAPTERS — TAP TO JUMP THE PLAYER
0:42Guest Backgrounds — Engineering, Estimating, and the Road to EllisDon — Shaun traces his civil-engineering UNB path, early Boston Big Dig years, and 17-year EllisDon tenure. Travis describes a detour through recreation and hospitality before finding estimating via community college, now 10 years with EllisDon.4:25What Makes a Great Estimator — PQS, Communication, and Field Experience — Discussion of the PQS and Gold Seal designations, why the PQS produces more well-rounded estimators, the value of field experience, and why communication with subs and site staff — not just takeoffs — defines career progression.12:40EllisDon's Atlantic Portfolio — Design-Build, CM, and the Lump-Sum Exit — Why EllisDon avoids lump-sum in Atlantic Canada, preferring design-build and construction management. Discussion of the Dalhousie Arts Centre, Seymour student housing (24-month Covid build), Bears Lake P3 healthcare, and the advantages of being at the table during design.19:00Labour Shortage — The Atlantic GC's Most Urgent Problem — Both guests describe competing for the same talent pool across Atlantic Canada GCs, the near-impossible task of filling senior healthcare PM and super roles, the challenge of moving experienced staff from Ontario/BC, and internal cross-area joint ventures as a coping mechanism.27:40Growing the Next Generation — Co-ops, Mentorship, and Culture — EllisDon's approach to co-ops from Dal, UNB, and NSCC; offering jobs before graduation; why asking questions is celebrated not penalized; and the five-to-ten-year experience gap that still exists in the pipeline.36:00Budget Realism and Inflation — Educating Owners Before They Commit — Travis and Shaun on the pattern of owners arriving with budgets that are three to five years stale, why EllisDon gives honest early-stage opinions even at the risk of losing the work, and the persistent challenge of post-Covid construction cost escalation.44:25New Brunswick, PEI Expansion, and Showcase Projects — Coverage of the Moncton satellite office, DVA Charlottetown ($98M renovation), Irving Oil HQ joint venture, NSCC Sydney Waterfront campus, Saint Mary's solar wall (tallest in North America), and a $1 billion-plus Atlantic pipeline.51:40Technology and the Future of Atlantic Construction — Adoption of FieldWire (site), transition from Excel to CostX for estimating, EllisDon's proprietary Gate Three system, VR and 3D scanning, and a pitch to engineering students that construction is now a high-tech, complex-project career.
// THE INTRO
Travis Rudolph (Chief Estimator) and Shaun Stiles (Senior VP & Area Manager, EllisDon Atlantic) join the Atlantic Construction Podcast for a wide-ranging discussion that covers how EllisDon operates in a collaborative, design-build-first market, the estimator career path from field to office, the Atlantic-wide skilled-labour shortage, the catch-22 of needing projects to attract senior staff and vice versa, and EllisDon's active project portfolio spanning Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and PEI (Dalhousie thermal, Saint Mary's solar wall, Bears Lake P3 healthcare, Seymour student housing, DVA Charlottetown). The conversation also touches on construction-technology adoption, intergenerational knowledge transfer, and the outlook for a booming regional pipeline approaching $1 billion in work. Recorded April 2023.
// THE LESSONS
See all 15 lessons ▸The PQS designation produces more well-rounded estimators than Gold Seal alone — it covers economics, contracts, law, and scheduling, not just takeoffs.
“the ciqs the pqs designation is much more broader... they're a well-rounded estimator they can think outside the box”
Communication with subs and site staff — not quantity surveying skill — is what separates junior estimators from senior and chief-level estimators.
“to get to the next intermediate Senior Chief level it's all Communications”
Back-room estimators who only email rather than phone or meet subs in person undermine bid relationships and sub coverage.
“did you pick up the phone and actually talk to him... you don't get a relationship through an email”
Large GCs with collaborative delivery models (design-build, CM) cannot compete on lump sum because their value proposition — design-phase input, logistics, schedule — simply doesn't fit the model.
“you don't have that chance to say well we can help with design... it doesn't even fit the model”
Getting to the table early in design-phase CM work enables conceptual estimating that draws from historical project data, reducing pricing risk significantly.
“we're always sitting at the table during early stages... sitting down with the owner and the design team”
The shift from lump sum toward P3, design-build, and integrated project delivery is driven by stakeholder dissatisfaction with adversarial outcomes; collaborative models serve all parties better.
“lump sum is not the best for the stakeholders and it's not the best for the subs... anything collaborative”
For Atlantic GCs staffing complex healthcare projects, the catch-22 is you need the project to attract senior staff and need senior staff to win the project — internal national mobility solves it partially.
“you need the project to get the staff and you need the staff to get the project”
Talented co-op students are now receiving full-time job offers a year before graduation and fielding competing offers — GCs must move faster than traditional hiring timelines.
“we're offering co-ops if we find a good co-op student they're getting a job a year before they graduate”
The Atlantic labour shortage is not only about numbers but about a five-to-ten-year experience gap — there are energetic junior staff but not enough candidates who can be named as senior PMs/supers on complex healthcare proposals.
“there's that gap between like they need another five years exactly before they can go away on that project”
Creating an open-question culture inside a GC — where co-ops and junior staff are actively encouraged to ask — compounds mentorship returns and signals cultural health to potential hires.
“promote ask ask many questions you have... even the co-ops even if they're scared”
Giving owners an honest early-stage budget and schedule opinion — even when it kills the relationship — is better than pursuing a project to a painful mid-design reset.
“more times than not we'll give them our honest opinion... better to do it before any money was spent”
Post-Covid construction cost escalation has permanently re-based pricing; owners arriving with five-year-old budgets are a persistent weekly conversation for senior GC leaders.
“a budget that they published and it was five years old... anyone in construction can tell you how bad escalation hit”
Diversifying project geography within the Maritimes (Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, PEI) protects a GC from any single province's slow cycle and builds regional brand equity.
“being in the maritimes I say this a lot we've had to adapt... we look at everything if it fits the model”
Construction technology (VR, 3D scanning, building sciences) is a genuine recruiting lever for engineering students who otherwise overlook construction as a career.
“the technology now... VR or the 3D scanning and stuff... should draw more young people”
Estimating tools are still transitioning from Excel to purpose-built platforms (CostX, Bluebeam); even large GCs are mid-migration, creating a window for competitive advantage through faster adoption.
“we're making a switch to CostX... Excel has been our go-to for years and years we're trying to catch up”
// CLIPS FROM THIS EPISODE
Story · 1:57
“back then you couldn't find jobs you had to either go West or”
Framework · 4:57
“when I get into it it was more of a kind of a education”
Hot take · 10:44
“what do we call them back room estimators right we're not back room type estimators”
Hot take · 13:09
“lump sum is kind of people are getting away from that”
Emotional · 17:51
“when it comes to a building that's got a tight timeline of being open what does that mean”
Story · 18:51
“bears like uh Community outpatients a P3 project first one in Nova Scotia”
Framework · 32:40
“we've done a couple joint ventures internal joint ventures within areas of Ellis Don”
Hot take · 29:22
“it's very hard we're all there's a fair amount of general contractors in the maritimes”
Hot take · 35:02
“we're offering co-ops if we find a good co-op student they're getting a job”
Hot take · 42:43
“I think we've lost a lot of projects being open and honest”
Story · 43:34
“there was a project kind of at the end of covid and someone had a budget that they published and it was five years old”
Story · 45:01
“at the same time we're doing a big solar wall at Loyola”
Emotional · 49:49
“I get a lot of crap for not being on sites enough but it's hard”
Hot take · 54:54
“we're waiting on probably close to a billion dollars worth of work right now”
All 15 lessons from this episode, on one page.
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// FEATURED BUSINESS
// FACT-CHECKED ✓ web-verified, with sources
✓ VERIFIED
The Bayers Lake (Bears Lake) Community Outpatient Centre is Nova Scotia's first P3 healthcare project.
Multiple sources including Nova Scotia government, CCPPP, and EllisDon confirm it is 'the province's first P3 health care project'.
SOURCE ▸✓ VERIFIED
DVA Charlottetown renovation is a $98 million contract awarded to EllisDon.
The $98M figure and EllisDon as original contractor are correct as of the recording date (April 2023). Post-recording, the contract was reassigned to Pomerleau Inc. ($93.1M) in May 2023 due to a procurement error. The episode's claim was accurate at time of recording.
SOURCE ▸✓ VERIFIED
Saint Mary's Loyola solar wall is the tallest solar-integrated building in North America.
Confirmed by Saint Mary's University, CTV Atlantic, CBC, Mechanical Business, and the Clean50 awards programme. The 67-metre / 22-floor Loyola Residence Tower with BIPV south wall is the tallest such structure in North America. EllisDon oversaw construction.
SOURCE ▸// COMPANIES & ORGS ✓ verified
EllisDon Corporation ▸Shaun Stiles P.EngTravis RudolphBayers Lake Community Outpatient CentreSaint Mary's University Loyola Residence Tower Solar RecladdingDaniel J. MacDonald Building Modernization, Charlottetown PEI
// PROJECTS NAMED
Dalhousie Arts CentreSeymour Student Housing (WorkLive)Bayers Lake Community Outpatient CentreIWK Emergency Addition (QEII University Ave)Daniel J. MacDonald Building Modernization, Charlottetown PEIDalhousie Thermal Plant RenewalSaint Mary's University Loyola Residence Tower Solar RecladdingIrving Oil Home Office (Saint John)Rossignol Netherwood SchoolUNB Head Hall Engineering BuildingNSCC Sydney Waterfront CampusDaniel J. McDonald Building (DVA PEI)Dalhousie Sexton Campus RenovationHalifax LibraryNova Centre
SOURCE: podscope · public episode data · yrxixpTqJhM