EP 54 · 2023-05-15 · 58:56
How Engineered Wood Changed Construction (And What COVID Did to Supply Chains) — Bertin Rioux, Clyvanor
Clyvanor sales manager Bertin Rioux traces a career from forestry to modular manufacturing ownership to structural-component sales, surfacing candid lessons on relationship-driven B2B sales, post-COVID market resets, and the engineered-wood supply chain.
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Bertin Rioux
⟶ The story, written up — a sharp read with every fact on the record. Or skip straight to the moments that matter, as clips.
// CHAPTERS — TAP TO JUMP THE PLAYER
0:00Sponsor Roll: Luminous Labs, Pizant Building Products, Procore — Pre-episode sponsor announcements for Luminous Labs (3D renderings), Pizant Building Products (HRM/NS supply), and Procore (construction management software).1:23Introductions and Music-to-Sales Flow State — Dan introduces Bertin Rioux from Grand Falls, NB. Bertin explains how being a drummer and gigging musician trained him in relationship skills — meeting people, solving their problems, finding 'flow' — that translate directly into business development.5:30Bertin's Career Journey: Forestry to Modular to Structural — From forestry technician (NB forest rangers) to Pepsi Canada to garage doors to car sales to modular construction in Quebec (2001), where he bought the company in 2007 and sold in 2012–13, then joined Clyvanor in 2018 to learn the structural-component side.11:00Clyvanor's Products, Markets and Post-COVID Sales Environment — Overview of roof trusses, open-web floor joists, and wall panels; markets in Quebec, New Brunswick, Ontario, and northern US. Discussion of COVID-era 'too much demand' vs. the 2023 return to competitive selling, including lumber-price chaos and the challenge of re-selling jobs whose prices changed before delivery.18:20Operations: Plants, Automation, and Labour Sourcing — Clyvanor's three plants (~250 employees total; ~$10M capacity in Palmer MA, ~$16M in Saint-Georges QC, plus modular factory). Fully-automated roof-truss line — claimed only one in North America. Offshore design staff in Vietnam due to tight design-labour market. Labour shortages addressed via Mexico/Colombia workers and contractor-side lift equipment.25:10COVID Supply-Chain Horror Story: Rockwool Insulation Cancellation — Vivid story: a Rockwool insulation order confirmed January, delivery due Monday, cancelled Thursday (3 days before a Hydro-Québec project start). Bertin's team scrambled across Quebec buying bags off shelves. COVID 'loyalty evaporated' — supply went to highest bidder. Re-selling jobs multiple times as prices jumped between quote and delivery.30:40Engineered Wood, Hybrid Structures, and Mass Timber — Engineered lumber now permits 6-story wood-frame buildings (up from 3). Cost pressure drives engineers toward hybrid steel/concrete base with wood upper floors. LVL, laminated lumber (Nordic Lam), mass timber (exposed vs. encased) — distinction explored. LEED certification story: FSC lumber shipped train from BC to Quebec to Boston, undermining the ecology rationale.38:10Named Project: Gray Rock Casino Hotel (Edmundston NB) — Hybrid Modular — Gray Rock Casino Hotel in Edmundston, NB: site-built first floor with wall panels, modular boxes for upper floors ('Lego boxes' — crane drops them in 3–4 days). Built during COVID with cross-border worker-entry challenges from Quebec.44:00Raw Material Sourcing and FSC Certification — Raw material primarily from Quebec forests; FSC certification now standard across mills. Irony of the 2006 LEED project where FSC lumber was rail-shipped BC→QC→Boston for ecological credentials.47:20Client Onboarding Process and Project Timelines — Commercial projects: 6–9 month process. Builders/promoters call 6 months ahead for budgetary pricing (often only 75% complete plans). Reverse-engineer from requested delivery date through design approval, material order, manufacturing, phased delivery (floors first, then walls, then roof). Residential: ~2-month process.54:00Competition, Market Saturation, and Closing Thoughts on Innovation — Quebec market has ~13 manufacturers in a 160km radius (vs. US consolidation). Association-level 'friendly competition' — competitors communicate and share intelligence. Competition benefits customers. Closing: construction hasn't changed much in a century but the next 20–30 years will be driven by labour shortage + automation + AI.
// THE INTRO
Host Daniel Arsenault sits down with Bertin Rioux, Sales Manager at Clyvanor (Grand Falls, NB), a Quebec-headquartered manufacturer of roof trusses, open-web floor joists, and wall panels operating plants in Saint-Georges QC and Palmer MA with ~250 employees. Bertin's career arc — forestry technician to Pepsi to car sales to 22 years in modular construction (including 10 as owner) to structural components — gives the episode unusual depth on supply-chain volatility, B2B relationship dynamics, and where prefab/modular intersects with site-built framing. The conversation covers: music and sales sharing a 'flow-state' psychology; COVID lumber-price chaos and last-minute supply failures; the post-COVID return to hard selling; engineered wood (LVL, open-web joists) pushing commercial buildings to six stories; hybrid steel-wood structures driven by cost sensitivity; Clyvanor's fully-automated roof-truss line (only one in North America per the guest); US vs. Canadian wall-panel specs; and an optimistic take on construction automation over the next 20–30 years. The tone is warm and conversational with genuine chemistry between host and guest around hockey and music. Substantively above the catalog average for supply-chain and sales texture.
// THE LESSONS
See all 17 lessons ▸Sales mastery is relationship mastery: ask about the customer's biggest pain first, then fit your solution to it — not the reverse.
“I'm not really good in sales I'm just good at relationships”
The musician's 'flow state' and the salesperson's pitch zone are the same psychology — getting into both requires genuine interest in the other person, not a script.
“same thing in the sales environment when you're pitching something when you're responding to questions”
In B2B construction supply, making 'friends' with customers is functionally unavoidable and commercially useful — orthodoxy against it doesn't survive contact with reality.
“theoretically you should not make friends from your customers... but I think you do automatically”
A career pivot toward your natural strengths beats forcing a mismatch path: self-awareness in the field (literally, on a log) is the trigger for a better trajectory.
“I scratched my head and I said I don't think I'm going to be able to do this forever”
After COVID demand normalised, construction suppliers had to relearn competitive selling — follow-up, qualification, and persistence were muscles that had atrophied for 30 months.
“we actually have to work to get the sales in now we have to follow up that's something we haven't done in 35 30 months”
Construction demand is tightly linked to interest rates and economic confidence — when rates are high, people hold, and you must double down on sales effort to compensate.
“if interest rates are high people are a little bit more hesitant so we have to double down as sales people”
COVID supply chains had no loyalty: confirmed orders were cancelled days before start, and product went to the highest bidder — operators needed contingency sourcing plans.
“if somebody was going to pay higher and if they have the product it would go to the highest bidder”
When structural material (e.g. LVL) disappears from supply, production stops entirely — build multi-source relationships for critical engineered lumber before you need them.
“in our business if you don't have any lvls you're not building”
During COVID, salespeople had to resell the same job two or three times as prices jumped between quote and delivery — locking in escalation clauses or cost-plus terms would have protected margin.
“the PO said it was ten thousand dollars but you invoiced 17... we had to sell the job again”
Engineered wood can now reach 6-story buildings (up from 3), opening commercial opportunities previously requiring steel — cost sensitivity is pushing engineers to reconsider default material choices.
“with the engineered Lumber you can do up to six story buildings which is pretty cool because not too long ago it was only three”
Hybrid structures (concrete/steel ground floor, wood above) are driven primarily by cost and price sensitivity, not engineering preference — understanding this helps you position wood as the cost play.
“Engineers are becoming much more price sensitive so you know it used to be hey it's just we do it in steel”
Labour shortages are partly solved by sourcing international workers (Mexico, Colombia) and by contractors acquiring their own lifting equipment, reducing reliance on supplier-side crane delivery.
“we have workers from Mexico we have workers from Colombia... contractors are getting their own lifts”
Design labour is globally sourceable — Clyvanor uses Vietnam-based designers, demonstrating that the structural-component industry can offshore knowledge work just like software.
“we even have worked with people out of Vietnam right now designers because sourcing”
Modular installation collapses schedule dramatically ('crane drops Lego boxes, hotel done in 3–4 days') — the schedule argument, not just cost, is the key commercial lever for modular on large projects.
“a couple three four days later the hotel's after it's like a big Show everybody's like wow”
Saturated regional markets (13 manufacturers in a 160km Quebec radius) can still operate collegially when competitors share intelligence via associations — a model Atlantic Canada's less-crowded trades can learn from.
“there's probably like 13 manufacturers... it's a very friendly competition they communicate a lot”
The US structural-component market sells through lumber yards, not direct to builders — a fundamentally different channel model than Canada, giving distributors early-warning demand signals.
“100 of our business is lumber yards we don't sell directly to the Builder”
// CLIPS FROM THIS EPISODE
Framework · 2:35
“a lot of that's a question I get asked a lot, why are you so good in sales”
Story · 10:06
“I was sitting on a log having my lunch one day”
Story · 12:05
“as far as early adoption, in the modular business when I was hired there”
Hot take · 16:00
“I'll be honest it's a lot harder”
Story · 17:03
“I tell my mom, who just turned 72, she's always questioning me, how's business”
Hot take · 20:33
“oh no, we're the only plant in North America”
Story · 26:48
“there's so many horror stories, one just really leaps out at me”
Hot take · 29:50
“a lot of people were just canceling last minute, there was no loyalty”
Framework · 31:05
“you really find out who people are through a crisis”
Framework · 34:01
“with land becoming a super premium now, the trend is to build upwards”
Story · 40:06
“back in 2006 I was the first manufacturer at our plant that did a LEED certified building”
Framework · 44:56
“the thing about this industry is that nobody presents their bids the same way”
Hot take · 50:09
“in Quebec just in our area alone, a 160 kilometer radius, there's probably 13 manufacturers”
Hot take · 53:56
“three things that are short in life, you're born, you're gonna die, you're going to pay income tax”
Framework · 55:07
“the one thing I'll say to the audience is that it hasn't really changed over the last century”
All 17 lessons from this episode, on one page.
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// FEATURED BUSINESS
// FACT-CHECKED ✓ web-verified, with sources
✓ VERIFIED
Engineered wood construction in Canada now permits buildings up to 6 storeys (up from 3 storeys previously).
The 2015 National Building Code of Canada permits 6-storey residential, business, and personal services buildings using light wood-frame (combustible) construction. British Columbia pioneered this change in 2009; the Quebec Building Code was also amended to allow 6-storey wood structures (confirmed …
SOURCE ▸// COMPANIES & ORGS ✓ verified
// PROJECTS NAMED
Grey Rock Quality Hotel / Grey Rock Casino
SOURCE: podscope · public episode data · FUnNu29-pA4