EP 72 · 2023-12-11 · 1:08:29
How an Association Beats Brutal Construction Contracts (OGCA President on Tender Risk & the Labour Gap)
OGCA president on associations, contract risk, the labour gap, and tech adoption.
GC
⟶ The story, written up — a sharp read with every fact on the record. Or skip straight to the moments that matter, as clips.
// CHAPTERS — TAP TO JUMP THE PLAYER
0:00Welcome and why GCs should share pain points — Host introduces the Procore-sponsored episode with OGCA president Giovanni Cautillo. They frame the show's premise: contractors are isolated in their geography but face identical issues nationwide, so sharing gripes and solutions across Ontario and Atlantic Canada is valuable. Cautillo gives an OGCA overview: founded 1939 on health and safety, 200 members representing over 70% of Ontario's ICI and roughly $14B+ of GDP, spanning small to large, union and open shop, every region.2:24Association inception and enduring pillars — They reflect that 1939 founders were competitors who united to solve shared problems, and that meeting minutes from then still read as relevant today. Cautillo lays out OGCA's pillars: health and safety, advocacy, engagement with stakeholders (engineers, architects, procurement), and innovation. He ties innovation to recruiting youth, citing Boston Dynamics' Spot, drones, and tablets on job sites, and laments construction being seen as a Plan B rather than a viable, well-paid career.5:48Changing the perception of the trades early — Cautillo describes working with the Minister of Labour (Monte McNaughton) on a campaign to talk up skilled trades from kindergarten, the damage done by removing shop classes, and the lost sense of pride a stonemason father instilled. Host and guest agree the perception problem starts young and must be solved upstream.8:46Bridging the gap: training, placement, and women in construction — OGCA used Skills Development Fund grant money to build a supervision-focused program now in year two: bridging new grads and newcomers into project-coordinator-to-manager roles, a train-the-trainer toolkit for members' superintendents, and a women-in-construction data effort. Cautillo describes the Toronto District School Board 'Step to ICI Construction' program that places students on job sites a semester at a time, exposing them to the 144 trades, and the legislation letting trades count as high-school credits.12:56Contract and tender risk: the OGCA's core service — Cautillo explains the association's tender-phase advocacy: members confidentially flag problem clauses, OGCA leverages its Associate Partner network (insurers, surety, lawyers) and submits anonymized industry pushback to buyers. Examples include nine-month price-validity demands (subs only hold price 48 hours), uncapped indemnification with no time limit, pandemic-risk transfer, and a liquidated-damages clause equal to the full project price. They claim an 85% success rate changing terms in the contractor's favour and note procurement's lost institutional knowledge post-COVID.19:52Helping small and mid-size GCs adopt technology — Cautillo argues larger members who already absorbed the pain of adopting management/scheduling systems can mentor smaller ones, like an older sibling. He recounts a small school-board renovation contractor whose change-order volume would have been more than paid for by adopting BIM. The discussion frames technology as the equalizer: faster job-site information and clash detection (BIM, even 8D for safety) give an edge, and resistance is really about fear of change as much as cost.24:16Succession, the supervisor profile, and emotional intelligence — With a retirement wave coming, they discuss what makes a good site supervisor: problem-solving, liking people, communication, and level-headedness. The host reframes these as emotional intelligence rather than IQ or construction knowledge, and Cautillo agrees staying calm under stress is worth its weight in gold. They note retirees coming back part-time as an organic training resource, and that technology and online training can capture institutional knowledge without replacing the human touch.28:24Focusing on the small contractor and closing — Cautillo says his tenure (since 2020) has refocused on small and mid-size members because they lack the in-house legal, safety, and IT divisions larger firms have; 'a rising tide raises all ships,' and OGCA bulletins on indemnification and liquidated damages arm them with confidence. He gives a shout-out to the Nova Scotia association and the CCA, stresses that no association works in isolation, and closes offering OGCA as a resource to Atlantic Canada contractors.
// THE INTRO
Giovanni Cautillo, president of the Ontario General Contractors Association, joins the Atlantic Construction Podcast (a Procore-sponsored episode) to argue that GCs across Canada share the same pain points and benefit from collective action. He covers the OGCA's history and pillars, its tender-review service that pushes back on company-killing contract terms, the supervision/labour shortage and the programs built to fix it, and why small and mid-size contractors should adopt BIM and tech the way larger members already have. The throughline is belonging: an association as a shared voice that raises every contractor, from mom-and-pop to billion-dollar builder.
// THE LESSONS
See all 21 lessons ▸Competitors gain more by sharing pain points and solutions through an association than by staying isolated in their geography.
“sometimes you're isolated in your own geography and you think oh I'm the only one going through this”
Recruit youth to construction by showcasing tech (robots, drones, tablets) and real earning power, not just money alone.
“we've got Boston mechanics spot the dog on some of our job sites walking around and doing you know the readings”
Fight the 'Plan B' stereotype of construction by exposing kids to the trades as early as kindergarten, before they choose a path.
“we wanted to uh to get in there because um the removal of shops really put us back”
Build a talent pipeline by tying school programs to guaranteed placement so students know there's a job at the end.
“the students know that there's placement and so there's a job at the end of the tunnel”
Place students on real job sites rotating through trades so they discover the 144 trades they didn't know existed.
“they place them with each trade for about a week right so as they're they're experiencing you know these trades”
Push back on contract terms at the tender phase, because once signed the provisions are locked in.
“once a contract is signed then you know the the provisions and whatnot that you have in there are somewhat locked in”
Long price-validity periods raise bids because subs only hold pricing about 48 hours; shorten validity to attract bidders and better pricing.
“we are as contractors are only getting uh price guarantees from our subs for up to 48 hours”
Uncapped indemnification with no time limit is a company killer no contractor should accept.
“if remove the upper limitation on indemnification and the timeline that means that you know they can come back to you at any one time”
Contractors price risk: riskier terms mean higher prices, so reducing risk in the contract lowers the bid.
“contractors price risk and if you make it riskier the higher the price right”
Submit contract pushback anonymously on behalf of the whole industry so individual bidders aren't exposed.
“we submit on behalf of the industry and all biders involved we never named the bidders”
Don't require error-and-omissions insurance on a stip-sum bid-build; it's only needed on design-build, and pricing it wastes the contractor's money.
“a stip sum doesn't require an Eno so let's let's remove that so that the contractor is not pricing something that they don't need to”
A contractor makes money by pricing a job, doing it cleanly, and getting out, not by hunting change orders to fight over later.
“you price a job you get in you do the job there are no problems you get paid you get out that's how a contractor makes money”
For a small contractor, change-order volume on one job can exceed what BIM would have cost, making the tech pay for itself.
“had you done Bim it would have paid itself with just half that amount”
Resistance to new technology is driven as much by fear of the unknown and change as by cost.
“general contract directors don't like unknowns we price risk”
Let larger members who've already absorbed the pain of tech adoption mentor smaller ones, like an older sibling teaching the ropes.
“it's almost like an older sibling teaching a younger sibling you know the ropes type thing”
Technology is the equalizer: being more advanced and communicating faster than a competitor is a direct competitive edge.
“technology ends up being The Equalizer in all things all things being equal if you're that much more advanced on the tech side”
Use BIM and clash detection up front to avoid back-end claims and keep the schedule.
“to avoid the claims on the back end to fix it on the front end so that you know it's it's easier for us to get an adhere to schedule”
A great site supervisor is defined by emotional intelligence (staying calm, communication, liking people) more than IQ or experience.
“you need to be in in control of your emotions and if you if you haven't been taught or learned then your emotions are going to get the best of you”
Recently retired veterans returning part-time are an organic source of training and institutional knowledge transfer.
“can I even work for you part-time on site I'll help and communicate to the next goes I'm bored at home”
Serve small and mid-size members hardest: they lack the in-house legal, safety, and IT divisions larger firms already have.
“the larger contractors have um individuals who already work in their organizations internal lawyers”
An association's core commodity is validated information; disseminating it gives every contractor confidence to negotiate.
“that's what our commodity is it's information you share information you raise you know the level of everyone”
// CLIPS FROM THIS EPISODE
Framework · 2:56
“how many members that we have so in Ontario we've got 200 members”
Hot take · 9:39
“construction was always seen as you know if you can't make it in University then you go to construction”
Emotional · 10:38
“I remember when I grew up with my dad he's a stone Mason from Italy”
Story · 20:47
“most students unfortunately only know the compulsory trades electrical Plumbing carpentry”
Emotional · 25:31
“I remember when blueprints were actually blue and I'd be sitting on my dad's lap”
Hot take · 26:41
“the step to construction cohort this year coming in 50% female 50% male”
Framework · 29:59
“can they say that they're going to pay us in eight months as opposed to 28 days”
Framework · 31:46
“contractors price risk and if you make it riskier the higher the price”
Story · 33:29
“there was a municipality which will remain nameless I'm not gonna throw them under the bus”
Hot take · 35:58
“we're about 85% successful in changing the buyers notion of how the tender should be written”
Framework · 49:56
“people are resistant to change let's be honest human nature you know what you know”
Story · 53:12
“some of our contractors are into 8D for Bim 8D is thinking about safety on scaffolding”
Hot take · 56:56
“as opposed to IQ but EI emotional intelligence there's a lot of talk about that”
Story · 59:16
“some of the people who have retired have come back saying hey can I work for you part-time”
Framework · 1:02:09
“under my tenure when I came on I'm really trying to focus on the small to mediumsized contractor”
All 21 lessons from this episode, on one page.
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// FEATURED BUSINESSES
// FACT-CHECKED ✓ web-verified, with sources
✓ VERIFIED
Subcontractors only hold price guarantees to general contractors for up to 48 hours in some cases.
OGCA's own 2021 article explicitly states 'In some instances, the supply chain validity period is as low as forty-eight (48) hours.' OGCA advocated for a 30-day standard award period. The episode's framing of this as the operative constraint contractors face is accurate.
SOURCE ▸// COMPANIES & ORGS ✓ verified
Ontario General Contractors Association ▸Giovanni CautilloProcore TechnologiesSTEP to ICI Construction ProgramOGCA Skills Development Fund Supervision Bridging ProgramCanadian Construction Association
// PROJECTS NAMED
STEP to ICI Construction ProgramOGCA Skills Development Fund Supervision Bridging ProgramWomen in Construction initiative
SOURCE: podscope · public episode data · Kun3XbWbF-g