EP 73 · 2024-05-14 · 1:08:13
How EllisDon, Pomerleau & Bird De-Risk Projects: IPD and Early Contractor Involvement in Atlantic Canada
Three big GCs debate collaborative delivery models reshaping Atlantic Canada construction.
TR
Travis Rudolph
⟶ The story, written up — a sharp read with every fact on the record. Or skip straight to the moments that matter, as clips.
// CHAPTERS — TAP TO JUMP THE PLAYER
0:12Welcome back and guest intros — Host reopens the show after a months-long break and introduces Travis Rudolph (EllisDon), Vivek Tomar (Pomerleau), and Rick Buhr (Bird). Travis recounts his winding path from gym teacher to estimating large ICI projects.1:42Vivek and Rick career journeys — Vivek traces a second-generation engineer's path from environmental and civil consulting into proposal-writing and Pomerleau. Rick moves from oceanography to architecture to Bird, now running key accounts and design build.4:00Why relationships drive the local market — The panel argues Atlantic Canada is a small, reputation-driven market where local track record outweighs national resumes, and decisions hinge on trust, not just dollars.12:00IPD, construction management and ECI explained — Rick and Vivek contrast IPD (Halifax Water Burnside facility) with construction management (Atlantic Science Enterprise Centre, Moncton), explaining how early contractor involvement at 33/66/99% design checkpoints de-risks budgets.18:55Lump-sum versus collaborative models — The group dissects why lump-sum kills collaboration and value engineering, how the multi-party IPD risk/profit pool aligns incentives, and why the right team and matching the model to the owner matters more than any single model.28:10Architecture vs MEP and innovation by model — Rick warns that mechanical/electrical can be half the budget yet escapes scrutiny, sharing a St. Mary's renovation story. The panel maps where innovation (mass timber, prefab, energy efficiency) can enter depending on the delivery model.37:20Backlog, selectivity and choosing teams — Record backlog and labour scarcity push all three firms to be selective; they favour collaborative work where larger GCs can bring constructibility, logistics, and research support to the table.52:00Indigenous benefits, best-value and median fees — Federal 5% Indigenous benefit mandates, Dalhousie's best-value evaluation, and Nova Scotia's median-fee scoring are praised for rewarding innovation over lowest price, with caveats about hitting the median target.1:00:50P3, challenges and wrap-up — A quick take on P3's quiet return after a long pause, then labour shortage and sustainability-vs-affordability as the headline challenges, closing with Rick's awe at overseas prefab manufacturing.
// THE INTRO
A return-from-break roundtable with senior leaders from EllisDon, Pomerleau, and Bird Construction on pre-construction and early contractor involvement (ECI). The guests unpack how lump-sum is giving way to construction management, progressive design build, and IPD across Atlantic Canada's public and private work, and why collaboration, shared risk/reward, and the right team beat lowest-price bidding. They credit Dalhousie's best-value evaluation and Nova Scotia's median-fee model for rewarding innovation, while flagging labour shortage and record backlog as the binding constraints. The conversation is a relationship-first showcase of three normally-competing firms agreeing on where the regional market is heading.
// THE LESSONS
See all 20 lessons ▸In a small market your reputation precedes you, so deliver every job as if everyone is watching.
“your reputation precedes you... everybody in frederickton knows what you're doing or how that's going”
Clients want local track record, not your work in Vancouver or Calgary, so lead proposals with regional projects.
“they really want to know what have you done locally”
Bring the contractor and key subs to the table early; you lose value engineering and constructibility once design is done.
“you miss the opportunity for Value engineering construc build reviews schedule reviews”
Stagger nothing: procure architects and the construction manager simultaneously so everyone starts collaborating at once.
“both contracts were wed at the same time so that The Architects and engineers and construction manager can start... at the same time”
Cost lump-sum design at 33/66/99/100% checkpoints so the owner can course-correct the budget before it's locked.
“at around 33% design we come in do a quick Constructor Builder review and an estimate 66% 99% 100%”
Lump-sum is a cost minimum, not certainty; every ambiguity becomes a change-order fight as the GC tries to recover margin.
“lumsum world is that's your cost minimum it just goes up from there”
Match the delivery model to the owner and project; there is no silver bullet and no one-size-fits-all.
“there's no Silver Bullet here in this industry”
IPD is a multi-party agreement with a shared risk/profit pool, so everyone wins or loses together.
“it's a profit pool on top of the hard costs... everyone's going to win or everyone's going to lose”
Collaborative models need subs and designers wired to be creative; the right team decides success more than the model.
“you want subcontractors that are wired to be creative that are wired to be at the table”
IPD demands an educated, engaged client who can make quick informed decisions without polling 20 people.
“you need a really educated informed engaged client that can be at every meeting that can make good decisions quick decisions”
MEP can be half a project's budget but escapes scrutiny; rigor on systems, not just architecture, protects the vision.
“we'd spend 95% of the time talking about architecture and a 5% talking about structure mechanical electrical”
Set sustainability and carbon goals up front in collaborative models and hold them sacred while finding savings elsewhere.
“what are the price prorities here... is it net zero project and you can set those goals and targets and then you hold those sacred”
Pick your design and trade team well before a project hits the street; the right partners decide the outcome.
“we have to pick your team well in advance of who is the designers who Consultants or who some of your key trades”
With record backlog and labour scarcity, get selective: a bigger backlog means you can bid on less.
“the bigger the backlog the less you can look at and take on which is a good problem for us to have”
Larger GCs justify higher overhead on collaborative work by bringing constructibility, logistics and research a small GC can't.
“they all got these different departments in the background that might help out with constructibility or construction Sciences”
Use best-value evaluation and median-fee scoring so innovation and effort are rewarded over lowest price.
“now it's not just about the price on the evaluations they've got all these other metrics”
Winning on technical merit means little if every bidder scores identically and it all comes down to fee.
“they'd score every technically almost identically so it always came down to fee”
A CM or value-engineering fee is inconsequential against project cost; one good decision saves more than it costs.
“we'll save you far more than you'll ever spend on us that's my sales pitch”
Federal projects now mandate roughly 5% Indigenous benefits, so build Indigenous partners into your delivery plan.
“there's a minimum uh federal government mandate now for 5% uh dishes benefits on it”
Overseas mass-production of building components hints at the prefab leap needed to close the regional skills gap.
“they were cranking up Building Systems... buildings the size of a couple of football fields and have a handful of people”
// CLIPS FROM THIS EPISODE
Story · 3:03
“the rink's a cool one because at a time typical rink you build it precast”
Hot take · 11:41
“it cracks me up when people from out in BC or what I say out West”
Framework · 14:38
“I always say to clients you know there's no silver bullet here in this industry”
Hot take · 18:55
“some architects say we're you know we're kind of where fun goes to die”
Hot take · 23:24
“as contractors we're not the bad guy in the scenario”
Framework · 27:24
“the big shift and the big mind shift on ipd it's a multi-party agreement”
Framework · 31:36
“the wording is a risk pool so it's a profit pool on top of the hard costs”
Hot take · 35:13
“it cracks me up on some of the projects where general contractors will struggle to break even”
Framework · 41:23
“when you're doing value engineering we'd spend 95% of the time talking about architecture”
Story · 42:43
“can I tell you a story this back to St Mary's job it was a big mechanical fit up”
Framework · 45:40
“the nice thing with a progressive model you can right up front say what are the priorities”
Hot take · 49:52
“I had a university client say to me one day we need them more than they need us”
Hot take · 53:39
“how projects are evaluated in Atlantic Canada Dalhousie University deserves a lot of credit”
Exchange · 55:57
“you flip to the median fees where fees back used to be 5% or 10% these days 20 30 40%”
Hot take · 59:36
“we'll save you far more than you'll ever spend on us that's my sales pitch”
All 20 lessons from this episode, on one page.
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// FEATURED BUSINESSES
EllisDon Corporation
Employee-owned Canadian construction and building services company providing general contracting, cons…
Bird Construction Inc.
Publicly traded Canadian general contractor operating coast-to-coast across the buildings (commercial,…
Pomerleau Inc.
One of Canada's largest general contractors, delivering building, civil, and infrastructure projects c…
FBM Architecture Ltd. (Fowler Bauld & Mitchell)
Halifax-based architecture, interior design and planning firm serving Atlantic Canada, with a portfoli…
// FACT-CHECKED ✓ web-verified, with sources
✓ VERIFIED
Federal projects now mandate roughly 5% Indigenous benefits (the episode says 'there's a minimum federal government mandate now for 5% Indigenous benefits').
Canada's mandatory minimum 5% Indigenous procurement target confirmed. Announced August 2021, phased in over 3 years. In FY2023-24, the government achieved 6.11% of eligible contracts going to Indigenous businesses. The claim is accurate in substance; technically it is a government-wide procurement …
SOURCE ▸✓ VERIFIED
Bird Construction is delivering the Halifax Water Burnside operations facility under an IPD multi-party agreement.
Verified IPD delivery confirmed. Key correction: the GC is a Bird-Chandos Joint Venture (not Bird alone as stated in the assessment). The full IPD team includes Bird-Chandos JV, Group2 Architecture, FBM, CBCL, and Atlantica Mechanical Contractors.
SOURCE ▸✓ VERIFIED
Pomerleau and Diamond Schmitt Architects are working together on the Atlantic Science Enterprise Centre (ASEC) in Moncton under a construction management model.
Fully corroborated. PSPC awarded CM contract to Pomerleau Inc. ($5.8M) and architecture contract to Diamond Schmitt (in association with EXP) at $23.6M in October 2021. Construction began November 2024. Expected completion 2032.
SOURCE ▸// COMPANIES & ORGS ✓ verified
EllisDon Corporation ▸Pomerleau Inc. ▸Bird Construction Inc. ▸Travis RudolphVivek TomarRick Buhr (full name: Roderick Buhr)Halifax Water Burnside Operations Depot (also: Burnside Operations Centre)Atlantic Science Enterprise Centre (ASEC)Fowler Bauld & Mitchell Ltd. (FBM)
// PROJECTS NAMED
Halifax Water Burnside Operations Depot (also: Burnside Operations Centre)Atlantic Science Enterprise Centre (ASEC)Halifax ForumSaint Mary's University rinkSaint Mary's University mechanical renovation
SOURCE: podscope · public episode data · 2Zuh4PQwdRI