"I Won the Stanley Cup and Was Suicidal" — NHL Goalie Corey Hirsch on Construction's Mental Health Crisis

0:00Okay welcome back to the Atlantic Construction Podcast we have a Procore sponsored episode with a special guest today so excited to introduce Corey Hirsch many of you will know Corey from his NHL days so Corey's a public speaker NHL broadcaster Olympic silver medalist NHL goaltender and NHL coach advocate for mental health and wellness Corey's been doing many speaking engagements on behalf of the independent contractors and Business Association throughout British which is where he's tuning in from in Vancouver and so we'll be drawing.

0:35The thread today on the topic of mental health and Corey's got a got a story to tell on that front so yeah mental health and construction it's you know it's one of those things we have a culture where I think it's probably not talked about enough and so that's the main purpose of today so Corey thank you so much it's an honor to get the chance to speak with you today we're excited thank you for having having me on and it's.

1:07You know when I started speaking a few years back I didn't really know what kind of Niche I would I would fall into and working with ICBA I've spoken God I mean we've spoken probably to 15,000 construction workers in BC Alberta made one trip to the maritimes was in Halifax talked to you know Merritt and it's been it's it's been incredible and I guess the reason it it's been so good is it's construction it's almost like a locker room right like it's it's guys it's guys hanging.

1:39Out together it's you know it's it's there's the masculinity part of it but I mean there obviously there's females in construction we don't want to forget about because they you know they they can struggle and feel you know that they have to be tougher than they need to be as well but it's very similar in the sense that like I said it's like a locker room right it's it's it's you know talking to your buddies and your boys and you're hanging out and you're except for with construction you're.

2:03Also doing a pretty dangerous job right I mean so it's where it's fallen into is we've just talked to a lot of people just to not be afraid to get the help that you need it's you know your buddies are more apt to be proud of you if you get the help than to make fun of you right but we have this as guys we have this thing where we're like I don't want my buddies to make fun of me or I don't you know what are my buddies going.

2:27To think care your buddies are going to be proud proud of you and happy that you helped yourself and if if they're not well then they're not your people so you know that's that's kind of the message that we've we've tried to come across it's been really good yeah for sure it's funny that you kind of you know as you started your public speaking you know after your career that's kind of the arena that you ended up in is a lot of similarities in the.

2:52Culture between in construction and the NHL you know it's fast-paced and you know demanding demanding work it's kind of a tough guy mentality and you have to be tough you know to succeed it's competitive you know all the same a lot of the same elements so it's it's definitely a lot of similarities like like you said and if I'm not mistaken I think your dad was a plumber too so there's kind of a few different ways in which this kind of.

3:21Fits or this kind of you know this kind of destined to be where you're what you're doing at this point grew up in construction oil and gas I mean that's all my buddies dads were oiling my dad was a plumber I worked with him for two months he made me just cut his pipe for two months that's all he let me do was the worst job I've ever had I think he probably did that on purpose so that I would go into hockey and I'd appreciate.

3:45It made me do all the work yeah yeah shock you but no you know yeah it's you said something too that's interesting yeah and yeah you do have to be tough it's a tough you know in these you do have to be tough but you know but who are you away from the job right that's going to allow you to do your job it's it's funny we haven't been able to separate you know personal and you know professional life we try to but but.

4:13People like well if I get help in my personal life you know what are people going to think of me at work and blah blah blah who cares you're going to be a better person to work with they're going to be happy right like and you're your jobs are dangerous so this is another thing we talk about too is that you know as somebody on the job whether you're a foreman or whether you're just somebody another employee working with another guy that guy's got to be on top of his stuff too or jobs.

4:38Can get dangerous right I mean like construction like oil and like so that's why we have to be there for each other right and you know if I'm gonna make fun or shame someone into not getting help that doesn't help me at work that makes my job more dangerous if this guy's you know having some depression struggles or struggles at home it actually is going to affect me at work right if I have to work with this person so you know even from that standpoint you know to get help makes sense or and.

5:07And even from a human standpoint like it just you know life is so much better that the help is available like like suffering in silence now is just it's just it's it's ridiculous why you don't have to you know and I did for three four years that when I was playing hockey I didn't tell anybody anything I I struggled and my play struggled and it affected my relationships with my teammates right so we're not in that stage anymore like you can get help and if if someone you know if you don't feel.

5:37Comfortable around someone because you went and got help like I said well then they ain't your people because you know there's nothing wrong with getting help and being better for everybody around you and like you said yeah I grew up in construction I grew up in oil and gas you know and it is a lot like a locker room it it really is and we have the opportunity to help somebody you know and if that's your buddy or your best friend damn straight.

6:05Let's help them let's let's help a better line yeah I think correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure you know of this stat too or the suicide rate among among construction workers is five times higher than the Canadian national average right I mean that's I think that's still somewhat accurate today whether that was from 5 years ago 10 years ago or whatever yeah it's sad right affects so many people I think about too like like we were talking about you have to be tough.

6:34And you know to succeed and that's that's there but at the same time like just to be able to have both sides right like there vulnerability I think you know like he said too like our industry yes there's plenty of females and we're better for it but still a male-dominated industry right there's 70 to 90% males and you know it's it's a it's a dignity thing I think you know it's h there's an internal voice that everyone has like you know.

7:06I've got a man up and yeah that's true sometimes a lot of times it is true but then like you know there's other things where like I think you use the analogy in some of your past interviews where like you know if you have a broken leg it has to heal right if you have something that's wrong mentally like it's you can't just keep saying man up you know get you'll push through it push through it and eventually like and and this little tie into to your.

7:30Story can you can you kind of share you know the not the short version but just a bit of your story you know and what you dealt with with mental health and OCD and your NHL career and just the pressures and having to struggle with that without even knowing and not being diagnosed and then having being able to make sense of you know some of the struggles you would have had in silence and that sort of thing cuz most of our listeners would.

7:56Be based in Atlanta Canada some Central and even even you know we have people tuning in the western Canada I mean you know a lot of people in the industry and a lot of our audience is male dominated so this is a great chance over the airwaves just to for people to you know there'll be people on construction sites listening to you right now right when this does drop so yeah please the floor floor is yours I mean I'll make it as short as as.

8:22Quickly as I can I mean I had an Olympic silver medal I just drank out of the Stanley Cup with the New York Rangers and I was suicidal right I mean you know I struggle with obsessive compulsive disorder I didn't know what was going on at the time I mean this is a long time ago now I mean this is you know this is back in the early 90s but I always just felt like I couldn't tell anybody or talk to anybody and I was you know if I.

8:48Did I was going to be labeled as crazy or buried in the you know never ever get a chance to play in the NHL so I didn't tell anybody and you know it took its toll eventually I lost 30 pounds I couldn't eat you know and it took me down it took away a very promising NHL career for me and I and I still ended up playing a 100 games over 100 in the National Hockey League but it could have been a lot more had I been able to.

9:14Get the help and felt comfortable enough to get the help you know been educated when I was younger hey this is something that happens go see a doctor blah blah blah but instead you know we have the stigma we have the stigma of our bodies and you know heaven forbid something mentally happens to you're labeled as weak or there's something wrong with you know how how can I you know how can I go and you know break my leg or something and there's that's.

9:41Seen as okay but something in my brain breaks which I have zero control over which I never asked for and all of a sudden it's completely different right you know so long story short is I suffered for three or four years in silence until basically I was to the point where it was either go get help or take my own life right because I couldn't live the way I was living anymore basically hiding and not eating and not training and basically just really struggling and suffering.

10:11From panic attacks so finally when I did get help I reached out to get help I got treatment but it was three four years down the road right whereas if I could have gotten help right away went to the doctor knowing what it was got help right away I'd have a lot longer NHL career and a lot better you know chance at a long NHL career instead you know after three four years I struggled lots of Destruction behind me in relationships you know just trying to.

10:39Hide having a mental health issue and that's a full-time job in itself and it ended up yeah ended up bouncing around the minors the rest of my career right this the early 90s but it doesn't have to be like that anymore you know it doesn't it doesn't have to be like this and I and I say this you know I did actually make an attempt at my own life at one point and I say this I say you know to anybody out there.

11:03Listening if I was successful at that do you think my hockey buddies would have said Hey I what a man he sucked it up he went out like a man he didn't tell anybody he didn't talk to anybody no they'd be like why didn't he tell me we could have gotten him help why didn't we go get him help right but we're always so afraid that our what our buddies are going to think or what someone else is going to think you know it all that.

11:23Matters is that you're healthy and that you're you can be a good friend and a good parent and a good you know spouse or whatever but when you have mental health issues it's it's hard to be any of those and if you get the help it gets better I am living proof of that right I mean I was suicidal at one point I almost took my own life today I live a great life I'm speaking I've coached in the NHL I've broadcasted in the NHL I played in the NHL I've written.

11:49A book like go get the help it life gets a lot better I promise you it's work but it gets a lot better thanks thanks so much I know this is it's something you do all the time but for your vulnerability and you know just being so open with your story you know there's people out there right now that are struggling and that's going to it helps them it gives them the courage you know to see somebody who's successful who's who's kind of a man's.

12:16Man so to speak and this something that people deal with you know and do you do you think now having gone through that I mean your NHL career right so you were you were with the Kamloops Blazers in winning the Memorial Cup in ' 92 and then off the NH with the Rangers still your favorite team so Stanley Cup there so this is in the mid mid 990s that you're kind of struggling with you know with this with this battle would you say and now with all the advocate.

12:41Work that you do and like how much progress have we made as far as eliminating the stigma I mean you do you do you know Bell Let's Talk mental health associations all over obviously you know there's a lot of people advocating for it now like someone in your shoes now they 30 years later their chances of coming forward getting the help they need sooner is better certainly we're I'm hoping that I'm assuming but you know how how much progress do you feel has been made and.

13:15And obviously like anything it's a transition but are are you happy sort of with what you see happening in professional sports and then and maybe construction I'm happy with what I see society as far as people we're making it acceptable people are asking to get the help more apt to anyways it's better that way still though we still have you know a lot of people don't know where to go and all that where I'm not happy is I feel as though as a.

13:46Society government wise we haven't really done much to you know what's the answer right like we have Hastings in here in Vancouver that's homeless and you know a lot of addiction issues and it's it's heartbreaking right and we still don't have an answer for things like that and we still don't have enough resources and so I'm encouraging people out there to go into school go into psychology Psychiatry we need more doctors we need more counselors we need more people we.

14:18Need more help you know for people to be able to pay for it you know finances is an issue but the good news too is those that you're usually typically HR or if you're us IED or whatever we there are programs now available and just get in touch with them and if you're not comfortable getting in touch with your HR talking about anybody do you work well the first place you go is your doctor right your doctor has seen all of it right your doctor's not gonna you.

14:44Know look at you and with like you have three heads if you go and say you know you're suffering from whatever they' they've seen and heard it all way worse than what you can probably explain to them so you know go go to your doctor go get the help I think we're in a much better place now where you know people are are asking for help but they don't know where to go right so that's the next step we need to bridge that Gap where well where do I go you know I need.

15:11Help where do I go well you know first place typically is your family doctor they'll be able to refer you to psychologist psychiatrist or if you have a buddy that's what's so important about sharing your own story right is that say someone's struggling with something similar to what I'm struggling with they know they can come to me and I can hopefully lead them in the right direction right that's why it's so important that we talk and we share our stories because when you share your story it actually helps someone else.

15:36Open up right and there's no shame in having gone to a treatment facility or for for you know for alcohol or drugs or whatever you know and then by opening up and telling your own story well that's that's how we're going to help people that's how we're going to make change by making it okay you know to ask because it's to think that it's not okay to ask like my brain is supposed to function perfectly are you kidding me scientists.

16:06We only understand like five to 10 there's 9% of the brain we don't even understand it's so complex and complicated but we expect everyone's brain to work perfectly that makes zero sense to me right it doesn't we all have struggles we all have a story go get the help, man you know it's lives a better life out there I was reading through the independent contracts Business Association ICBA in their website and a few of their articles you know top three drugs.

16:40Requested by members which would be you know specific to the construction industry was depression anxiety and sleep disorder that was what you know these medications were were given for and you know I about specifically like you know there is a lot of people that are dealing with these and it could be different levels you know like for for different people you know like and everybody's unique right and everybody's going to get help in a unique way certain medications for example might work for.

17:11Some people and not others and so it's kind of a trial and error and but like like what what you're what you're saying and what what's true I guess is to start that journey is like just that having those conversations right because first first you have to admit like that yeah there's there's a problem here and I just need to talk about it to somebody and then that's kind of like the first step right of a journey of a thousand miles right to start to.

17:41Yeah I guess that's really what it comes down to is just is having those conversations right I mean they're so powerful I mean look what we're doing here is it's simple it's just we're just a media company that wants to have meaningful conversations as I couldn't think of a better guest and have other people just be part of the conversation so it's there's a lot of power in words right I mean just just speaking about it may even be half the battle right and then the rest is.

18:11Going to be unique to everyone's journey and maybe you know counseling and maybe some things childhood stuff and stuff you know that certain people have been through and there's all kinds of different different things that are going to be so unique but just opening the door with the with the with the conversation and how can how can people in the industry say if they're business owners or contractors or you know there's this tough guy mentality that you know in some ways you need to.

18:39Have and there's good parts of that and it gets the job done and but how can some leaders maybe who aren't you know comfortable maybe with h you know H it's hard to have a hard conversations anyway it's always going to be a battle but what what do you think like you could speak to on like leaders even on the job site whether they may be Foreman or site supers or or like like you said guys in the locker rooms just other other carpenters and plumbers.

19:04Electricians that are on the site and or business owners like you know we've had CEOs on the show of you know Big Atlantic Canadian based companies and they're admitting like hey you know I struggle with this too I mean I'm I'm I'm here as far as the hierarchy is and the decision making and all that like I'm I'm here as a CEO and I'm you know you're you're on top but hey like they struggle with the same thing that you know it's kind of there's an.

19:30Equal playing Ground there that we're all on right it's we're all connected that way I'll put it this way I'm going to put it very bluntly about the tough guy mentality right and that's fine there's a time and a place right yeah like about it you know there was there's a time and a place on the ice where you know you had I had to be a little tougher a tough guy you know but but but who are you when you're when you're off the ice right who are you.

19:53Know and I'll I'll put it bluntly the suicide rates of construction is five times the national average five times right so do you want to be a tough guy and possibly have a suicide on your on your you know where in inside your company or whatever because you wanted to have a tough guy mentality and that you know that person doesn't feel comfortable getting help or whatever or do you want to help people and let's put a dent in these numbers right because I've had a suicide in my life I had a.

20:24Girlfriend that took her own life and I'll tell you what it's the worst thing that can ever happen to anybody it Dro me to my knees right and I say this in my talks if if you've ever gotten that phone call it is absolutely the most horrific phone call you can ever get and if someone out there is listening and you've got it you know what I'm talking about it and I'm so sorry I'm I'm so sorry because it is awful so let's drop the tough guy.

20:52[bleep] because three and four suicides are male right now they're 75% right right and you know is something like that possible to happen in your life I I hope not I hope it doesn't but it does and it happens way too often in the construction industry so what do you want to be do you want to be a tough guy that you know encourages other people to you know or pushes people down that to not talk about their stuff or do you want to possibly Save a Life I mean.

21:21Right that's up to you as as a as a male right and there's a time and a place so what I say say to CEOs and companies and workers and foren and all that have an open door policy you know have an open door policy because it affects everybody and construction jobs are dangerous so if you have one worker that's not on top of a [bleep] right someone else can get hurt so you know by pushing people down and not encouraging them and saying that you're.

21:50Not a man or whatever and I hope people don't do this anymore you're actually encouraging a safety issue right like you're you're you're you're not doing your job in that sense which is to make the workplace safe so if you want to make the workplace safe be open for someone able to talk to you can come to you with their problems so that we can get them help and they can get back to work and be you know safe for everybody and that's that's how we're going.

22:18To change this right now do you think some of it I mean this is kind of a direct blunt question but you think some of it you know say in your experienc the NHL and professional sports maybe the same in construction you think some of the mental health or a lot of the mental health issues comes from bullying in in in some regard I mean I'm not I'm not saying that it all does or it's a tough it's tough to just I'm not making a blunt statement that it.

22:48Does there's a lot of mistreatment in the workplace there's a lot of there's a lot of mistreatment in professional sports I mean you hear stories you hear horror stories all the time people don't always speak up right people don't always speak up it's Authority it's you know hey I got a career in the line here maybe I shouldn't say anything like sometimes it comes from you know Mi Mis mismanagement or poor leadership you know you want to win a Stanley Cup you know want better.

23:15Keep our mouth shut or hey we got to get this job done and I got I got bills to pay I got kids at home I'm not going to anything some of it's you know it's it's that's that's part of what we're talking about here that's exactly and but that's why you know here's the other thing too is that if you know you make a you have a good workplace and you have people want people are going to want to work for you they're gonna want to work.

23:38Hard for you right if if you've got somebody coming to work that's worried about bills and all that and putting I understand that you know but if they're stressed out to the point where they're making the job dangerous because you're not you know you're bullying people or not getting them into help well that doesn't make it you know any better for anybody right an actual you're creating an unsafe situation for everybody now these are extreme things we're talking about right but this does happen in the industry like the reason.

24:07The suicide rate is five times the national average isn't a joke I mean it is right I mean that's those are big numbers so you know if you're out there and you're there's a difference between too you know we're gonna we're gonna bust on our buddies we're gonna have fun of course but you know let somebody know that you're joking right you know there's a thing but there's a difference between being you know you know you busted on somebody because it's one of your boys or whatever and you're.

24:35Just having fun but make sure it doesn't go too far yeah and you know what PE people aren't stupid either I mean you know when someone's you know when a Good Buddy's grinding your gears and you laugh and it's fun you're yucking it up and you know when somebody when when it's not a joke you know people people can sense that right yeah and you know it doesn't mean you're walking on eggshells but just check in with your buddies hey you know yeah we we B.

24:59Around and I say some stuff and we you know we get on each other but you know hey if you're not okay or things aren't you know let let me know you know we'll get you some help or whatever because we've all we all have struggles right like just just be that good guy be that guy that can that can bust on his buddies but that can also be the guy that you're the first person that they're they're come to right like you can still have fun with your buddies and.

25:23And right like that's that's the thing is like you know we're in a a politically correct Society now and all that and it's great and but but it's like there's a point where you know is it yeah we're just having fun with our boys right we're just having be but also be that person that person knows hey you're just joking around and if you if if if there something goes down or something's wrong this person's got your back you can come talk to me right like.

25:49Like I still bust with my buddies and still have a good time but they can also still come to me and say Hey you know I'm struggling my my marriage is struggling struggling you know all right well let's go talk let's have a coffee right let's let's let's let's see what we can do just that's all you have to be you know you don't have to yeah you're right I'm not qualified to treat anybody but I can listen I can be a good friend I can refer you know to somebody I can.

26:13Still have a good time with my buddies right like yeah and like I say you know we have to put a dent in these numbers because it's you know like I said it's it's it's crazy it's ridiculous three or four suicides are yeah man that is a sad statistic and yeah I keep think you know we keep talking about buddies and friends and it's just it just makes me think like the quality of your life is so defined by the quality of your friendships right.

26:43And like it's it's it takes work to be a good friend but like I would want to be that kind of person like hey you know you come talk to me if something's you know you that's an honor to have to be able to listen to Somebody's that they trust you enough like what an honor that is to and you don't have to like have all the right words or you know like it's man it's going to be a little bit awkward but who like who.

27:05Cares what an honor that they would come to you and trust you enough like to tell you that's that's a and sometimes too we have to get in other people's business like we always don't want to get in our budd's business you know but when it comes to a point where you see something where you know maybe somebody's you know using to excess or drinking to excess or whatever it's time to have a conversation it doesn't have to be a mean conversation but it's time to check in with that person right like.

27:33And we're always worried about I don't want to get my buddy's business or whatever right like you know no if it's bad enough right it's time to have a conversation and it doesn't have to be a you know as men we always think it's got to be like a a you know a hockey coach to a player or whatever where it gets kind of a little bit heated no it's just checking in and just saying hey buddy you know I'm get get get in their.

27:57Business right you know if you have to and just let them know that if they need you they can talk to you right if say say you notice that they're drinking a little too much or they're using a little too much or whatever hey you want to talk about that right that then that's that's where we're going to be able to help people yeah no that's such good advice man I think you know we those of us who have been there you know or if it's drinking too much or or or.

28:19There's drugs involved there's mental health you know often those those things are intertwined right I mean that's why they're drinking because there's and they don't maybe even know and sometimes you don't see the behavior you don't really notice the behavior when you're when you're doing those things so someone's going to call you out on it who cares enough about you to call you out on it then it's like oh snap too and you kind of like yeah he's right I really needed someone to point that out.

28:40You know yeah and you can still you can still be a good friend you can still bust on your body right but but yeah you know we stop looking the other way when somebody's like it's like the shame and the guilt right it's just like when I talk about Hastings here in Vancouver you know we look by it and we go go by it and it's not just another addict or another junkie or another alcoholic or whatever something traumatic has happened to these people that's why.

29:08They're on Hastings right they didn't they didn't grow up and go oh you know like I think I want to be homeless and addicted to something right like they all wanted to be hockey players doctors lawyers too something traumatic has happened in these people's lives and we need to stop shaming them from getting help right or what's happened to them we need to encourage people to get help and if you've got a buddy that's that's drinking or or using something probably is going on right like that's.

29:33Why it's important to have that conversation and just be somebody that's open and they might not come to you right away or whatever but you know you just got to stay in there you just got to keep letting that person know that and eventually they will come to you yeah when they're ready yeah when they're ready right might not be on your time but at least get in their business enough to let them know that hey look I see what's going on here you're not fooling anybody but I care about you and.

29:58That you know I care enough let's get you some help if you need it if you need it I'm here right so and that's that's those are the little things we can do as buddies right that we can that we can do to kind of encourage people to get help because there's nothing wrong with getting help right like my parents generation were that generation where you sucked it up and you just you know and how were they as parents right like I mean it didn't go well like let's be.

30:23Honest I love my dad and I know my dad loves me and all that but I mean I there's no real you know there's no real kind of relationship in the sense of communication and yeah I would love that with my dad like we all would right right but that's what that generation learned and now we're all kind of like trying to fix that right yeah it's kind of you know and again I'm not talking about like mushy stuff or anything there's a time and a place but.

30:51Just having that relationship with a friend that's like [bleep] I need some help man you know all right well let's go find you some help yeah let's go get it better if it doesn't work the first time that's all right we'll find you help the second time you know and the third time whatever it takes that's all you got to be you know that's all it that's all it is you don't yeah as you say that I'm just thinking to myself like yeah and I Hey Hey listen like you know you're.

31:15You're you're spending so much of your time being vulnerable and helping people with your courage and like you know I've struggled myself I mean I'm just another guy another dude who worked you know I worked to construction and have done you know different things and but yeah I've had lots of lots of struggles with anxiety and depression and so many people do and you know I've I've learned to you know I need help with so many things man like I mean you know the day the day goes by there I.

31:45Don't but I think I think once you learn to ask for help it's it's humbling it kind of makes you a better person and you can understand like I was never meant to carry the weight of the world you know like I need help with like like all kinds of things this weekend and today and like just like I need people in my life who can help me out with these things you know and that's okay like that's that's what we're that's what we're here to do is.

32:08Like you know we're all here to help each other and I think I do think that's that's one of the hardest things for you know and we keep coming back you know talking about talking about men and well we are men so I'm going to talk about from the point of view of a man so I'm saying one of the I think one of the hardest things for a man to do is that say help that's a hard thing to do it's not going to be easy it just is hard you.

32:29Know cuz we do have healthy pride and we have you know we need to feel like we're providers and that we can be successful at what we're doing and we can put our mind to something and we can protect you know people that we love and all those things and when we can't do those things it's really hard to admit you know we're not doing so well and a lot of times it's not even our fault you know it's like not everything is your fault you know like.

33:01So yeah I' I'd rather like I'm to the point that I like I struggle too like I'm still like in the sense that like I'll be like you know I'm not gonna ask for help with this or whatever or that or you know I can get it and then eventually I'm like ah I gotta need some help so I'll talk to one of my and see if somebody whatever you know and with with whatever I've got going on because I sit there and I think okay.

33:26Well would I rather just sit here and suffer through it why does that what is that going to do it's gonna ay it's gonna cause more destruction behind me because missed a meeting or I haven't you know I haven't been as great a parent or a spouse as I can be like why am I doing that why why not just go get the help so that I you know it's well yeah yeah you're doing it for the people that you love right it's it's almost like you're going you're going to.

33:55War with with these with these these demons or with these you know these things in your life that you need to you need to fix and you're doing it for because you love what's behind you not necessarily because you love having to do that you know why else why else would you do it if not for the people in your life that you love yeah and it's it's it's a lot of like I said it's the destruction behind me that I created by missing meetings and you know not being as good of a you.

34:20Know getting in an argument that I didn't need to get into right and then this the cycle would just continue right because then it's like guilt shame you know I wish I didn't do that say that why am I doing that and then it's just like repetitive and then it just keeps getting more darker and darker yeah go get the help, man you know no there's no Magic Bullet and there's no but you got to do the self work of course but man it's so much better you know like it's.

34:42So much better when you do and you're also an example for your kids right like like my kids know to go get help if they struggle because they are going to struggle right we all do at some point it just but you know I've set the example example that it's okay to go get help and you know they're going to follow that example right instead of if I suffer in silence and I just sit there and I do nothing about it I become more and more just you know.

35:09Whatever not as then that's what my kids see right and kids are monkey see monkey doo so you know then all of a sudden you're just passing on that that generation of yeah getting kids yeah that's a good point I mean kids are like that right and it does have a lot to do with their devel you mentioned like our parents grew up in a different time and the baby boomer era and you know we're all kind of you know although we like to admit like to.

35:35Say that we're not we are products of the culture and a lot of different things that happen in the world and you know so by talking the way you are especially with your background you know in the NHL and it's one thing talking to another adult but to a kid man like an NHL player who's got an Olympic medal and a and a Stanley Cup like you are you're you're like this huge thing right and like if you can admit these things like that's probably where you make the most.

36:02Difference cuz then 10 years later when these kids are 19 or 20 maybe they're going through something then like it was talked about when they were seven or eight or nine right like it was and somebody they really looked up to like they they couldn't think of what meant more to be in their eyes like a hero or man like that somebody who's achieved all that in a tough sport like that and so that's probably the biggest difference in the return is like you know you'll see the fruits of that.

36:28Like over time by just it's it's that kind of era or that group of kids that are growing up in now in a time where it's talked about right well and it's not just me like there's there's a lot of professional athletes you know out there like that have strug Kevin Love NBA Allstar he had a panic attack on the court in front of 20,000 people he's NBA Allstar right like like and now he goes and talks about it and you guys everybody probably knows you.

36:55Know Paul Bissonnette from Spittin' Chiclets like Paul's a good friend of mine and when he was 17 one of his best friends took his own life like people don't people don't know that stuff but it's like he's we've all got you know we've all got struggles we've all we've all been through it and you know you're not alone so I don't understand the mentality of that we approach these things alone because there isn't a person out there you know there's and if there is there's a hell.

37:22Of a lot more of us that have struggled through something than people that haven't right I mean if you've made it this far unscathed in your life well congratulations because you are one of the rare few right like we've all got I think that's a red flag that this person isn't trustworthy if they got to that point in their life and they haven't got through anything yeah no I'm good nothing nothing's ever happened now yeah okay [bleep] right like talk talk about your book Corey saving my life came out in October 2022.

37:53Had you been thinking about writing a book for a long time was it something that like maybe maybe your spouse or someone in your close Circle friends said hey you should write a book or was that like always part of the plan as you started public speaking and that kind of thing yeah usually so WR in a book that was the first kind of idea and then the Players' Tribune article came out and the Players' Tribune article hit quick it was two million hits in under an hour it.

38:16Went viral so it was the right way to go because getting a like an online publication like that everybody can read it quickly and it hit really hard and it was called it's a tribute it's called dark dark dark whereas a book takes a lot more time right to write someone's got to open it and read it not everybody like I don't I can't remember the last time I finished reading a book yeah would you say though would you say that process for you though was like I.

38:41Don't know if it's like too deep was healing for you to kind of do that yeah I people have asked me that I'd say no I think what's been healing is getting out and tell and what well honestly what's been what's been healing is it's being public about my story yeah because when you walk around and you feel like you're hiding something sick as or Secrets yes exactly you hit it right on the head there so just it's healing in the sense that I don't have any I don't.

39:10Have any more secrets like I'm not hiding I got I struggle if I'm late for something well you know it's maybe it's because I'm struggling or whatever like there's no secrets when I was really sick and I wasn't telling anybody you know when I'd be late for a meeting because I struggled getting out of bed or was suicidal well it made me look like a bad teammate right and a bad kind of guy because well who missed a meeting or you know or whatever you're late for.

39:34Work all the time right when really you're you're struggling and then what happens is people will put a reason on top of why you're late for yeah yeah you don't give a [bleep] because you don't care yeah this that when it's the furthest from the truth so when I started open up and talking about my stuff you know you know obviously being being you know having pride and being on time for work but it also is this is why right now I now I'm a good person I'm not that.

40:05[bleep] you think I am I'm just struggling right like when you have secrets as you just said you're only it's it's toxic like secrets are toxic and people make up their own assumptions now does that mean everybody needs to know your own business no but not not everybody deserve yeah exactly but it's but you know what when you when you let people know hey I'm struggling they have a lot more compassion and empathy than than not knowing at all right or just thinking you don't care and.

40:34Communication is so important so the book was it healing to write I would say it was more I was way beyond that part like the healing had already kind of happened and I was ready to write a book the book is more for other people it's not for me because it's more of a mental health book than a sports book it got put in a sports category but it's a mental health book with sports stories not a sports book with mental health story right right if if you need want to.

40:59Read something out there that can explain mental health what it's like to have it the book has has been outstanding for that yeah that's amazing oh and people can find that I'm sure in you know any any bookstore online check out your website and that kind of stuff and anyone wants to find that book thank you yeah yeah and it's it's gone really well and then like I said the speaking has gone well and it's just it's been awesome it's been awesome and you know when you change your attitude.

41:26Too from you know like when I was a hockey player was all about me now it's all about helping other people like man you get you get it back tfold you really do like it's that's what it's all about and this has been really cool so thanks for having me today I appreciate it yeah no it's yeah it's been a real pleasure to connect with you and talk talk to you about all these all these things that you know we.

41:52Still we still have to continue to advocate for and have these conver conversations and yeah I just hope that within our audience you know I hope there's people that are listening that are struggling a little bit and no doubt they are I mean like you said I think one in four you know men struggle with mental health at any given time so hopefully it just even even if just hearing you talk will help right it's going to help it's going to help them so.

42:17And as men we want to we want to solve our problems on our own but I didn't get to the NHL because I decided to just do it all on my own I had coaches right M helped me helped me along the way taught me how to be an NHL goalie it's the same as a human being right like you don't just know everything because you're on I'm here I'm alive I know other people use other people just like I had a coach to get better mental.

42:41Health too you right it's the same thing you don't have to sit there and suffer and do it all on your own like you should have the answers I don't have the answers for for what's going on with in my brain right I needed someone else to teach me how to deal with that stuff so that you know I can be better today sitting here trying to figure out on my own is just suffering and you know it's just you know what's just banging my head against the wall right no use.

43:08The resources around you there's people that have studied this stuff right studied depression studied anxiety like they're the ones that know how to help you get out of it right use it's ridiculous to think that we can do it on our own all the time absolutely before we close Corey I don't want to you know bombard you with a bunch of hockey questions I know you get that all the time and I could certainly sit here and talk hockey with you all day we were.

43:31Talking about the Canucks earlier and obviously that's your that's your team living living locally there in Vancouver but I wonder if you could just share your thoughts before we close out on you know you were a goaltending in hockey and that's you know that's a unique position right it's it's you're obviously you're all on the same team but you've got kind of a specific role but when it comes to like your experience with the Stanley Cup winning team with the Rangers in 94 and having the Memorial Cup Win In '92 with.

44:01Blazers you know Olympic silver medal just your thoughts on like teamwork and like what what what were those what made those teams special I mean it's kind of sounds cliche I know but like and there's going to be leaderships you know and like skill and all that stuff but like just you're you live that and your experience when you look back what what were the dressing rooms like I mean who yeah I played with Mark Messier so I was there when Messier won the cup with the.

44:32Rangers and all that and I would say you know the biggest thing that you know that I learned from that is Know Your Role because everybody has a role you know in a certain situation and we all want to be Champions we all want to be the owners and the CEOs of these companies your best chance of success is to know what your role is within that company and do do it to the best of your ability and then from there you can move.

44:58Into another role right like like there's nothing that will tear down an organization or a team quicker than somebody that you know isn't doing their job well because they think that they should be doing something else or they're bitching about what the owners did here or what they did there or or what you know when everybody falls in line and the projects get done and the everything gets done and everyone plays their role that's how success happens and then success breeds success right so you know if if you do a good job well.

45:32You're going to move up the company ladder if you do your rule you know if you want to be one of those people that are always complaining or or hate life or whatever you know and the job's not always great let's be honest right but that's how success breeds success that's kind of what I learned in those situations with those guys is that when everybody falls into their rule you know success happens and when success happens you're going to be successful those are probably the the biggest things.

46:02That I learned and I asked Mark Messier once I said to him in Edmonton they signed a bunch of these contracts for like $75,000 for like 10 years in the 80s and I asked him why and he said back then it was a job hockey was just a job that's what they you know it's what you did so you just got comfortable and then everything started to change money started to come in and all that and salary cap and and the game got.

46:30Bigger and I asked him you know what he thought of you know of success in teams and all that and then he said he said to me he said you know I can complain about what the owners are doing who's trading what or whatever he said but it's not my team when it's my team and it's my job and I own it okay well then I can start to make decisions but for him he said it's my job to fall in line and do the best job that I can.

46:59Be so if he was the captain which he was you know he didn't worry about trades or you know what the owners were spending money on his job was trus in the organization and to make sure that he was the captain the best captain that he could be and that's you know that's basically kind of like the best way I could describe the conversation I had with him which again means staying within your role and success breeds success right so that's kind of the best way I can describe what the.

47:32Question you asked me I hope I answer it I love it man love it thank you so much for sharing that and thank you for your time today Corey it's yeah it's been a pleasure talking with you man really no thank you thanks for anything you guys need anytime I'm around appreciate it cheers cheers.