Asbestos, Abatement & Demolition in Atlantic Canada: Inflector Environmental Services on Hazmat, Healthcare Construction, and Acquiring a 50-Year Competitor

0:00We are excited to be announcing our newest presenter sponsor, Payzant Building Products. Payzant Building Products has been providing contractors and builders with the supplies necessary to complete their job since 1964. They've built a reputation on honest, helpful, and quality service, serving the HRM for the last 58 years. Now with seven locations in the HRM and one in New Brunswick, we look forward to having Payzant Building Products on the podcast in the near future. Okay, welcome back to the Atlantic Construction Podcast. Today we have Inflector Environmental Services with us.

0:38And we have Vice President Dan Chisholm and Director of Projects Justin Merritt. Thanks for doing this, guys, and thanks for being with us. Great to be on. Yeah, yeah. We usually start and just get a little idea of your kind of backstory in the industry and sort of how you arrived at the position you're in, and maybe a little bit about your education and background in the construction industry. So maybe start with you and just tell us.

1:07A little bit about the history of how your career progressed. Yeah, career-wise I started with PCL. I was a student — I was going to St. Mary's University and NSCC at the same time. I was doing a Master of Commerce, Bachelor of Commerce, and the Construction Management Tech program. Got on as a student and did three terms back to back. I was doing that — so this would have been 2009, 2010, 2011, right in that window. Graduated and then actually moved out to Regina, Saskatchewan with PCL. Okay.

1:41So I went there for the Roughriders football stadium. No way — yeah, it was pretty cool project. Very cool. That's pretty cool, especially for your first one. At a school? It was intense. Yeah, it was great. So stayed out there for four or five years and then came back, worked in the local market for a few. And yeah, quite a few. Yeah, we did like all the startup games, and then there were some Eskimos games when I was in Edmonton.

2:08And man, I'm sure the crowds are good in Saskatchewan. They're wild fans — like, they're very wild fans. They're very religion there. It is religion there. Yeah, it's awesome. No, it's all good. Tangent. Yeah, little tangent. No, I actually caught the game here as well this summer. They did the Atlantic Touchdown, right, at Acadia University. So that was exciting. Okay, to watch that. So yeah, because we were going to have one of those at St. Mary's campus prior to pre-pandemic.

2:36And then they — no, they didn't. No, they lost. Yeah. So after that, came back and joined Inflector in 2019. Nice. Started as the operations manager, did that for two years, and then got moved up to be the VP and area manager. How about yourself, Justin? Long backstory with EnviroBate and lots of years in the industry in this regard. Yeah, no secondary schooling, but finished grade 12, went full-time as a—

3:19Dairy farmer for a few years, and in 2011 I moved to the city with my girlfriend at the time. From where? From Pictou County. Okay. And got on as a labourer with EnviroBate, and ever since then just haven't stopped — pushed my way through the ranks, went up to a supervisor, then did operations manager for six years, and now we are here, joined Inflector. So yeah. EnviroBate, you know, similar to Inflector — a multi-service environmental contractor. Abatement, meaning whether it's asbestos, whether it's lead, whether—

4:01—you know, any number of items that need to be removed from the building, along with demolition — these are the services that you're providing and working on, right? Specialized environmental, specialized a lot in concrete cutting as well. Okay, yeah. So typically, for most of the projects that you're working on here in Atlantic Canada, for the abatement side — is it mostly asbestos, is it mold, is it both, is it lead? Like, I'm sure it's different with different kinds—

4:35—of buildings, whether it's industrial or institutional or commercial. It's a mix. Most of the hazmat that you see is asbestos, right? And sometimes it comes up when the job's tendered if they've got a really good hazmat report, and other times you get in there, get ready to do demo, and look at it and say, hey, that looks — that looks about the right vintage, 60s, 70s. Get it tested and it ends up being that. So I think asbestos is one of those topics—

5:00—that a lot of people in the industry obviously hear the term thrown around a lot. You've been involved in jobs where, oh, you know, it might be asbestos here — gotta wait for the environmental contractor to come in, get some tests done, send it to the lab, etc. But can you guys give us a little Asbestos 101 rundown? Just, like, you know, it's more common than maybe some people think. Absolutely. Take us through — like, it was the king of building materials in—

5:31—the 50s, 60s, and 70s. It was the miracle building material, right. It had tensile strength, it was sound resistant, it was mold resistant, and of course it was fireproofing. And the manufacturers put it into everything — they put it into fireproofing, plaster, flooring, drywall joint compound. Yeah, because similar to gypsum, which is in drywall, it's naturally fire-rated. Like, the material has a lot of — I guess aspects of the ingredients within it that make it—

6:04—make it valuable to have in a building. It's just prior to understanding the health effects, of course. But yeah, it's interesting, right? I didn't really realize when I was getting into it just how many materials it was in. So yeah, it's kind of like when you realize how much petroleum is in — you know, it's in every product that you put your hands on. It's in these bottles we're drinking water out of. And asbestos is kind of similar — that's—

6:30—where they were headed with it. Yeah, and it was in the automotive industry too — a good example, like disc brakes or pads and stuff on your car. They would put asbestos fibers in those too, to make them last a little longer, heat resistant. So it's not just in the building industry, right? It's not just in the building industry. Yeah. So maybe — it's kind of, I think, well-known at this point. In recent — the acquisition of—

7:01—EnviroBate. I've seen yourself, Dan, as Vice President since 2018 — is that right? Or is 2018 when Inflector started carrying work in Atlantic Canada? So Inflector started in Atlantic Canada in 2018, yeah — Dartmouth General Hospital. And 2019 I came on, and I assumed the role of VP and area manager in early 2020. Okay. And your CEO is from this area — from Ottawa, so you knew him. He went to university here and then grew the business in—

7:37—Ottawa, succeeded his father, and then — correct — big step to be back. Yeah, because he spent a lot of his life here, for sure. Yeah. So their family — both his father and his mother are from here. Jeff was born here and they moved the family to Ottawa, and that's where the business started. And when Jeff took over and there was an opportunity to launch the region out here, I think it was very special to him and exciting. So that's kind of how it—

8:01—got started. And it's one big job in Dartmouth General to get the ball rolling — that was the anchor. Correct. Yeah, yeah. And you were present for that project? I came on the tail end of it. Okay, yeah. Right when it was getting really — just in time. Just in time. Yeah. It was — that was a great project, I'm sure. Yeah, it was, for a lot of trades on that project. Were there a lot of — I mean, you were—

8:24—there at the end. Yeah. It was massive. It was a demo of — clean building materials, and they refitted all the operating rooms, put a big expansion on, and then did a renovation in the main hospital. But there was a large abatement portion to it and a large selective demo portion to it. So yeah, a lot of really good trades involved with it — a good project all around. Amazing. Yeah. And so, with the—

8:51—recent acquisition of EnviroBate — just think it's neat that Justin's been with Inflector for a couple of months now since that time, and you're an EnviroBate employee now at Inflector. Just, you know, without getting into the corporate side of course, or anything, but just maybe a little bit about your personal experience when a company merges. Obviously there's a lot of mixed emotions on maybe both sides, especially worrying about job security, and—

9:24—for the ownership and entrepreneurs it can be, you know, definitely an emotional time. But also looking at a company like EnviroBate's been around for 50 years — and to see all that hard work carry forward in some regard, with a lot of the same team joining with another, and just seeing the fruits of your hard work kind of continue. But what's it been like for you, Justin, as an—

9:52—EnviroBate employee? Just tell us a little bit about what it's been like here the past six months. Well, I mean, when I was first told — I'll be honest — it was shocking. A lot of emotions, a lot of mixed emotions, like you said. Wheels were spinning, what was going to happen. I was quite worried at first — like you said, job security, what's going to happen with me. But then once I sat down and met Dan and the crew and stuff, they made me feel warm inside, and yeah—

10:18—thought everything was going to be okay, and so far I love it, so it's really good. Look, when you say — it was like probably a level of fear at first. There was. Yeah. And even probably like anger — like, what the hell, like, why does this have to happen? Yeah. Not — hell, who are these people? Not so much anger. All right. So I work alongside with the owners of EnviroBate — the former owners of EnviroBate, Carl and Rob — and we work hand in hand, day in and day out,

10:43for the past six years. You know, they're my mentors — they taught me a lot about the industry, and a lot about managing guys and estimating. Very experienced people. So I was very proud of them too, to do what they had to do — or what they chose to do. So, you know, nobody wants to work for the rest of their life. It's good on them for what they did. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. EnviroBate has and had such an—

11:10—excellent reputation for years, right? They're the primo demo and abatement contractor — especially when I started in the industry, that was always my perception anyway. And it seemed like they were on every job. And when I was told — like, we were in negotiations — I was like, sweet, right? I was pumped when I heard who it was. It's exciting. And definitely want to really thank Rob and Carl for putting trust—

11:38—in us, you know, with that great business that they built. And it is like handing over a child or a baby — they've been so tied to it and involved with it. And they still are — they're still on, and very involved in the day-to-day. And for me it's great to get that mentorship as well. Yeah, yeah. Just to clarify — what I was leading into is, you know, the perspective that you look at it: it's a victory for them, probably, in a lot of ways, although there's that detachment.

12:00Very much so. It's like, yeah, you know, you have to go through that emotional curve. But I was going to ask you as well, Justin — for you, being in the work environment, you know, maybe hearing the conversations that were going on, there's that anger and then the fear elements. Did—

12:22—you personally have to say to yourself, well, you know what, I'm just gonna go talk to this Dan guy and just see what he's like? Did you have to kind of switch your attitude towards it, or was there a moment when you kind of just felt — I'm just trying to get some context of your personal experience of it. I didn't have any negative opinions towards the whole sale or decision that was made. Very optimistic person, so I try to look at—

12:47—the good things of it all. So I was nervous more than anything, just nervous. I didn't know — like a first day at work nervous. Yeah. I'm basically — you know — I'm volunteered to start a new career, is kind of what's happening. That's what I'm getting at — like, that's a big deal. Yeah. And I'd settled in — like I said, I'd been at EnviroBate since 2011, it's now 2022 — so a lot of time put in. I'm someone that gets comfortable and works hard for the people—

13:12—that support me too. So for that kind of change to happen all at once, and so sudden — that was the biggest shocker of it all. But then, like I say, once I met the crew that I was going to join, it all just leveled me out and made me feel a lot better about what was happening. So I think it's interesting to hear your experience of that, because it's something that a lot of people go—

13:36—through. It might not be an acquisition or a merger, but everybody knows what it's like when a company is going through a generational shift, or new management in any regard, or changes internally, especially within the leadership. And I think the one thing you're thinking about is, well, I've got all this experience, I've built these relationships — a really good relationship with my bosses. Are these — you know, is this just gonna be some guy coming in, you know, you're thinking in your—

14:06—head, that's half my age, or some guy with a degree but not as much experience — what's going to happen to me, and am I going to be appreciated or whatnot? And it's just that level of comfort you get to, when there's lots of tenure — that's out the window. So it's an emotional time for a lot of people. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. I mean, Dan, as far as — I think probably maybe one of the most important things is the—

14:34—culture. Like, do they match? Do the people think the same, share the same core values? Because every team has its own aura, its own — so it's again about merging them together. Yeah, I mean, it has been excellent. The two teams have meshed really well, both in the office and in the field. That was — you know, you have concerns when you start putting these supervisors together who used to be competing, and are they going to get on, are they—

15:01—going to work with each other? And it's been awesome so far. But you know, definitely was wondering how this was gonna go. And same thing — you bring in all these new employees and co-workers and, you know, are they gonna accept me as new management and new leadership? So, you know — well, that's like when you get hired as a new head coach halfway through the year, absolutely — in the NFL or NHL. We were—

15:27—just talking about that — we were both football fans — and that's gonna be one of the toughest jobs in any industry. Yeah. Head coach in professional sports. And it's essentially the same job — you're managing people, you've got to get to know them, get to know what they like, what kind of leadership they respond to. Absolutely. You're in a tough spot. And you've definitely been through a lot in the last year. It was a quick change—

15:51—right? And not only the new people and learning them and getting to know them and their working style, but just the volume as well, right? So you're essentially doubling the scope of the business — with employees, with revenue, with yeah, a lot of moving parts. But it's gone really well so far in the first couple of months. There's a lot of fine-tuning to do, of course, and getting everybody — one thing—

16:17—right now is we're in two offices, so that proves challenging sometimes, but with technology and stuff, and we're a stone's throw away from each other. So we kind of cruise up and see them and then go back down. Send some paper airplanes. Exactly. Yeah. I'll get a telephone with the string going. Yeah, exactly. So what — can you tell us a little bit about the process? Like, at what point — I'm sure there's some rumors—

16:43—going around the office, and then all of a sudden it's like, yeah, don't listen to that. And then you know, I guess this is really happening. And then you kind of have the meetings with the bosses, the management teams, telling you what's going to happen. At what point do you make contact with the team? It was pretty tight-lipped throughout the whole — and the other thing too is, until the deal closes, you don't know if it's going to close. So you—

17:11—know, it's kind of lukewarm up to a point, and then it's getting close, and then it's going — but even up till the day it's done, you don't know if it's gonna go or not, right? And I think that's felt on both sides. And once both ownership groups are saying yeah, it's a go, then you're really going down and meeting the new employees and moving from there. So—

17:35—to your — well, so what was that like? Dan and I, our first meeting was private. Oh yeah, yeah. I didn't have this strange face walking into my office — we're gonna keep it that way. No, we went for lunch. Yeah, the former server there. Exactly. Yeah. We had lunch together for our first meeting, and both of us just hit it off right away. It was great. Yeah, they got both ends — I can—

18:06—speak for Dan too — yeah, we matched really well. That's — yeah, well, it's great to see. Yeah, it's great to see, like, anybody in the industry, or involved in business, or two teams come together and it works out — it's awesome. You should think it's awesome, because, yeah, the chances are amazing — not very good. And you drive around the city here and everyone's got a chip on their shoulders. EnviroBate employees are walking around thinking we're the best—

18:31—and then you've got Inflector doing the same thing, and then you see each other on a job site and you kind of turn a blind eye. But then as we mesh together, it's all like, let's just make this big super team. You guys were competitors — you know, since Inflector did the Dartmouth General in 2018. So all of a sudden — it's not that long ago — there's a new player on the block. Yeah, these guys. Yeah—

18:54—we've got another price to beat. It's funny — it's cool to kind of peek over the fence, right? So it's like, all of a sudden you're thinking of a job you bid that they won and you're like, where were you at on that? So you're kind of flipping back with some friends. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So it's been interesting with that. So who are the main competitors now? Is it — so, yeah, so—

19:23—I mean, there's a few abatement and selective demolition companies — actually quite a few. There's a lot. You know, there's Starfish, there's Volcano — okay, now you've got my interest. Yeah, yeah. There's quite a few of them, right? And there are lots that would be, you know, equivalent to the Inflector and EnviroBate size pre-merger. A lot of those, and then there's a lot of smaller ones too. It's a pretty saturated market. They really have their niche—

19:49—within the market too. And I assume, you know, it's going to change — with the two companies coming together, you know, obviously the model now is a little different. It's far-reaching, high-volume. So it's going to change maybe some of the jobs that you wouldn't have priced before — you can tackle now. That was one of the strategic things too. Like, there are a lot of big projects coming up when you look at the hospital pipeline, things like that. And you—

20:12—know, this will position us well to take on those big jobs, and then still service the clients that got both of us where we are today. Right. You know, we've had — they have a lot of repeat business and so do we. And you get all these big projects and they're flashing in the pan, but you gotta stick with the people that got you where you are. Yeah, right. Yeah. I was — one of the things I get to do on this podcast is ask—

20:38—questions that I think are stupid, but 80% of people might not ask — they want to ask them but they're probably thinking the same thing. Okay. You know, when I was just kind of doing some prep work, going over and sitting down, I was thinking, like, first of all, how the hell do you estimate demolition? That was my first — that was my, you know — because I've got some estimating experience, you know, average skill. But it was just always something I thought, like — and I'm not saying, like, you—

21:09—know, if we've got to tear down 100 feet of wall, I'm sure anybody could figure that out. But you get into some of these healthcare jobs — and I guess it's like anything else. Anybody can tackle the point count, the linear foot, the square foot, figure out material cost. But you know, dumping fees and logistics and stuff — unless you have someone who's experienced and been through it, which is the same in a lot of—

21:37—other trades. But it's — you're not building, you're tearing down. So it's really a sensitive, intuitive thing, and there's a lot of risk too. Like, we have to deal with dust — dust is a big thing for demolition, right? Obviously. So there's a lot of contingencies you have to put in to make sure you look after those risks and make sure dust doesn't migrate. So you've just got to have that experience and know what you're up—

22:09—against. Know what's above a ceiling, what's inside of a wall maybe, and just be prepared for everything, really. Yeah. We were talking about, you know, anytime any trades are involved in a demo or a reno or retrofit — site visit, you know, it's mandatory. You have to go. But not likely more so again in that scope. Like, what is above the ceiling? Well, could be extras. It could be extras. You think of flooring too, right? Like, you could take up some sheet vinyl and it peels right up and off it—

22:43—comes. Or you go to peel it and it just ain't going nowhere — it breaks into a thousand pieces and comes up the size of your thumbnail. Exactly. All of a sudden, you know, that takes 10 times longer to do because you had no idea what's under there. So I just feel like there's a risk in it. Yeah. A lot of that — way riskier. Your level of risk in bidding and estimating on something — it's got to be the highest, a lot of the time. It's just a—

23:06—gamble, really, with that kind of stuff. Like, Dan speaks on — you just don't know sometimes how hard that's going to come down, how hard that hardwood might be — maybe it's going to be glued down rather than nailed, and more mastic used for adhesive than another place you bid. So you might see some of our estimators, or other estimators in the demo industry, trying to tear something up mid-site walk. Well, it's like, yeah — that should be permitted. If it's not, a lot of things—

23:33—generally not. It'd be — I'm sure it's allowed on some, but yeah, kind of hard to price if you can't do that, right? Get away with it. Yeah, it's coming out anyway. Yeah. You know, if it happens this week or post-tender. Yeah. Oh yeah. No, it's an interesting process. And it's a lot in abatement as well, right? So abatements are very specialized, and a big component of abatement is the final cleaning. When we leave a—

24:04—room, there's no fibers, there's no dust — we clean it, it's 100% clean, right? Especially if it's a mold abatement job and you've got to seal everything so it doesn't grow back. Absolutely. In asbestos too, right? When we go to clear an asbestos zone, the consultants come in with leaf blowers, turn the leaf blowers on and hit the whole room, and if there's any dust it gets on — this is the fiber test. Yeah, so if it gets on any of—

24:29—their air pumps, you're coming back and cleaning it. Right. And not good. You try to think of it. And you try to think, like, how long does it take you to clean an open web joist — or like thousands of feet of it, right? It's involved. Yeah. Take us through a scenario like — you come into a place, and you know, I know you don't do the testing in-house, right? You're sending that to an—

24:53—engineering firm. It's always third party. And is that — do you guys kind of price that out, or is there someone you like to work with, develop that relationship? There are a few consultants we really like to work with. There's probably not many to choose from that specialize in that, or is there? There are quite a few around. There's decent — like, you know, All-Tech Environmental and Glencore Pension — there's quite a few around, and they're all excellent. Like, you know, it's—

25:14—like all companies, right? You get people you like to work with. Yeah, you mesh with certain people and don't mesh with others. Yeah, it's like a lot of construction jobs — you know, if you get two good project teams and two good superintendents put together and you don't hear anything from the site and they get on great. And yeah, you get two people that are oil and water and — all yeah, you know. Yeah. It's funny — from being a great—

25:37—experience to just being something else entirely. Yeah, it can. So, you want to run them through a Type 3, Justin? Yeah, so Type 3 — so we'll use this room for example. I guess we're going to come in and remove the drywall or the plaster, whatever the makeup of the room might be. On the outside of your door you would set up a three-stage decon, which would include a clean room, a shower unit, and a dirty room. So then your room would be put under negative—

26:06—pressure with a negative air unit and filtered through a HEPA filter. Then you would come in, remove all the material, bag that material up in labeled bags. The bags would then be taken out through that same chamber, cleaned off, and put into a second bag, and then disposed of properly. After the removals are complete, you come in and fine-clean, as Dan said — clean it all with a fine-tooth comb, brushes, a vacuum. And then after that you get your consultant to come in, make sure—

26:39—everything's clean, do an agitated air test, which is the third-party sign-off for that. Yep. And then that's just another engineering sign-off, confirm — yeah. So someone like All-Tech or Glencore will come in and do that. Okay. They do your agitated air test, make sure there's no fibers in the air. You lock down the area with — it's just a glue, basically, it's just a light adhesive. It's clear, so when you put it on you don't know it's there after we leave—

27:09—right. And then they run an air test to make sure the air is nice and clean inside. And then you tear everything down, and basically the decon is used for traveling in and out of your work area. So the guys enter with their mask on — powered air-purifying mask with a motor on it — and they put a Tyvek suit on, come in, do the work, and then when they're done their shift they leave. When they exit, they remove their suit, shower themselves completely, along with—

27:36—the mask as well, and then put the street clothes back on after that. I remember the first time I went into a Type 3 — it was like walking onto another planet. Like, you got all these flaps you're pushing along. For any of our listeners who haven't been around a site or haven't been through a hospital that's under renovation — you see the tarps and the negative air stuff set up and the hoses and all that. You might see some guys in white suits—

27:56—but it looks like one of those movies about a global virus. Yeah, it is. And then, like you said, you go through all — you're fighting your way through these flaps, and you get in, and you get the APR on, and it's humming along, and you're like, well, this is wild. Yeah. And the health side of things for a company like Inflector — you know, just with the gear alone, right, in that space, with so many hazardous materials, and—

28:24—respirators and things like that — it's a lot. Cleaning is essential. We clean all of our tools in and out of jobs, we clean all of our equipment. The bags, the waste, gets cleaned. The guys wear these disposable Tyvek suits that they take off right — those two or three a day, right? So every time they take a break and come out of the zone, they take that suit off, they—

28:47—shower out. So we set up temporary showers, they take a full shower, and leave the zone — they decontaminate. So that'll happen three or four times a day, depending on — yeah. That's another thing, like, that's a big cost. It's a big variable cost and variable detail — not only for that, but for the labor side too. Because it's not like it's fast-moving in free open new builds. Every time your labour force is on site, it's a slow—

29:16—process. You get 20 guys in a zone and they all have to shower out two or three times a day. Yeah, your shower allowance — on the Dartmouth General Hospital, exactly. Yeah. A lot of shampoo. A lot of shampoo. Lots of suds. Yeah, yeah. Like an estimator pricing out the shampoo. Yeah. That's interesting. So Type 3 — that's pretty much your highest risk level, right there, right? Yeah. To differentiate based on the type of material, the quantity and size of—

29:52—the area, and often the client. So there are some spots where the regulations would say it can be a Type 1 or a Type 2, and the client will just say, you know what, it's an occupied building — we want to go to the maximum precautions. And you see that a lot with government and provincial and federal buildings. But that's typically what happens. So your revenue is kind of split between government projects and private as well, I mean — it's obviously—

30:16—relationships with developers, are yeah, absolutely. Like, there's all that public tender work and there's also the private tender work, and a lot of commercial work. But institutional as well, you know — the different universities around, and healthcare. And it all manifests itself differently. And EnviroBate in particular had a lot of long-standing relationships where they get the phone call — hey, we trust you guys, you're fair to us, please come—

30:43—help us out, we've got a job for you. So that's another great resource too — the 24-hour thing, you know, where these — whether it's a building maintenance professional calling you saying, it's a pipe in a hospital and in the ceiling they know it's asbestos, or even if it's not asbestos — they call us to come take care of it, right? Yeah. Make it safe for the workers and the people—

31:08—that are using the space. And a lot of times the building operation requires that to be taken care of immediately, or at least addressed. It's not like you can wait. Now, you know, we're busy, we'll be there in a week — well, yeah. And you think of the Dartmouth General Hospital or any hospital work — all those services are running through the space, right? And they're continuing on. A lot of them—

31:29—are staying live. So medical gas or something like that — let's say going into an operating room. So the level of care that we have to put in when we're doing demolitions and abatement work is extensive, because if we cut that or hit that, then that's potentially somebody's — yeah, somebody's health. So you've got to be very detailed. Healthcare construction — on this show, we've talked about this many times — just a different animal for—

31:57—any contractor. But I feel like a lot of your operations at Inflector — or EnviroBate for the last 50 years — is healthcare the field that takes up a lot of your services, like your revenue? I think we excel at it. That's really what it is. Because of the abatement style — whether it's mold, lead, or asbestos — we're used to setting up containments, we're used to isolating our work, we control dust. So infection—

32:26—control, which is essentially that same scope — we're really good at it. So we get into these projects, and often we're helping the general contractors or we're helping maintenance people set these up. So that's another big side of our — yeah. Can you — Justin, I know you've been there, I'm sure you drive by and you probably — I think you said you worked on this building, our studio, a couple of times? Yeah. But you know, it's Scotia Square — you were there for a few years. And is there any—

32:54—jobs that you know you worked on that you're more proud of? And I'm not saying we want to go into talking about all the dirty secrets of every building — which is kind of neat, because in your business it's like, buildings — there's always a backstory and so much history to buildings. And even their place in the community, and what they meant, and the stories of them being built, and—

33:19—what it's like with tradespeople. You're talking — remember that job, how hard it was to get that area done, or whatever. And you guys really kind of have an inside look at a lot of the story of the building. So I'm just saying — is, you know, at Scotia Square for example, what was that like, just to work on that project? It's right here downtown. And are there others that you're just really proud to be part of?

33:42Yes, Scotia Square was a fun one. That was one of my first big jobs that I was part of — it's quite a large expansion. We did that project with Maxim Construction, and it went off pretty good. There was a lot of unforeseen throughout the project, as far as concrete and stuff that had to be removed after exposing some beams — found out they're completely encased in concrete. So that posed a big task, added a task onto the project. So saw-cutting — your services. Yeah, that's one of our—

34:17—fortes. And that really tested our limits on that one, for sure. There's a lot of specialty concrete work to be done on that project, so we brought in some helping hands for that one. That went off pretty good. Another fun one we did was the — the building right on the corner of — oh, let's try this — Barrington Street there, it's right beside the TD Tower. Okay, yes. So we actually got into that building, got all the plaster off the inside of it—

34:44—probably four or five years ago now. And then the building kind of just stood stagnant there for a few years. And then if you drive by now, you see the back of it's kind of missing — you can see the mural in behind it and everything like that. We actually partnered up with Dexter Construction on that one and helped them out. We have a track saw that we mounted to the side of the building and actually separated the face of that building from the rear of it, so they could tear down—

35:09—the remainder of the building. So that was a fun one. It's about seven stories tall — so having this track saw with a 42-inch blade spinning, you know, 80 feet in the air — pretty cool to see. Yeah, it was fun. But we've been in almost every building in the city. Yeah, I mean, we could sit here and tell stories for a couple of days. Absolutely. Yeah. Like, the Keith's Brewery — did a little bit of work in there. That's fine. And the—

35:37—Ralston building — we helped with that one too. That was a big one — a lot of concrete cutting there too, and a lot of asbestos. So yeah. You've got a cool one starting next week too. Oh yeah, I do. Yeah, I have probably the coolest job I'll ever have in my life, honestly. We're removing a Quonset hut, which is a steel dome, on Sable Island. No way! Yeah. So I got the chance to fly over — what's it called again? It's a—

36:03—Quonset hut. So it's basically a steel dome garage — like you've seen in backyards and farmers' lands and stuff like that. So it's just a corrugated steel structure. It's about 80 feet long and it sits on a concrete foundation, with kind of — yeah, exactly. Is it — it's just a style of building? You know what, I don't know exactly. Yeah. Like the old silos. So we have to — there's some — there's a lot of lead paint in there painted on the wood surfaces, so we have—

36:38—to go in and abate all the lead. The interesting factor on this one is the material — getting it off the island. So everything is going to be palletized on pallets and wrapped to withstand Sable Island's winter until next June, until we can get it off the island. So we have until — we start there — how do you get it off the island at that point? We load it onto a barge — they call it the — no, I wish — it's onto a barge, they call it—

37:04—their sea lift. So they just load it on there with the skid steer, and we'll bring it back over here to Dartmouth, retrieve the materials, and then dispose of it properly after that. But it literally has to sit there wrapped up until June of next year. So why? Because there's no more — yeah, there's going to be — so after August they don't send any ships over there. The barge doesn't travel over there anymore. So your only means of access is airplane or a helicopter. So picking the crew is fun—

37:34—we're like, hey, you want to go to Sable Island? Yeah, they're like, oh yeah! We're like, yeah, it's gonna be like seven weeks. Yeah, you're staying there until the end of November, the whole time, and you're leaving next Wednesday. So yeah. I got a chance to fly over about two weeks ago now to check the job out. We took our operations manager Alex with us and had quite a fun time on the site. It was pretty cool. The Parks Canada people—

37:57—have, hands down, the best job in the world. Like, it's a very interesting place, very chill. It was like a movie, man. It was very kind of weird to say, but it was like magical. Like, you land there and — you hear about the seals and all these horses and everything like that, but it's legit. Like, you land and there's just hundreds of horses all around the place. And you know it's gonna be cool for the guys just to be there and see that and get a job done. And—

38:23—you know, have that in their profile. Wow, yeah — it's a pretty cool one. I'm pretty excited. That is really cool actually. That's like the best story I've heard on this show. We did one on George's Island last year. Yeah! There were fireworks on George's Island last weekend — that was — no, is it organized, or was it just somebody out there? Well, maybe — I think it was organized. I think maybe there's an abandoned crew up there. Yeah, they know how to set some fireworks. Island yeah, yeah. Real good—

38:57—you're not even allowed to go within 20 metres of a horse, let alone set up fireworks, right? Definitely not on the gear list. A lot of fencing on the island that I see — I assume just within their living quarters, other than that everything runs free. Yeah, leave it as you see it — they tell you when you get there. So you're not allowed to take anything, move anything. If you've got a dead animal on the side of your doorstep, that's where it stays, I guess. Yeah. Like you were saying—

39:22—about George's Island. Oh yeah, it's a very cool project. They put a decent investment into it. They're getting a lot more engagement with it. And there's tunnels all through it — from when it was militarized. Yeah, it was great. Did a project out there — so definitely a flagship project. Led by abatement — old abatement. Are they going to do tours over there? Is that their plan? They were doing them last summer as well. And I remember seeing a rendering from — I—

39:47—think it was Smarter Spaces — and you can see, like, under the bowels where the cannons were, and the aisles and little tunnels and whatnot. Well, it's just — Halifax, Nova Scotia, the Maritimes in general — such a historic place. There's a long history here, and you get into a space like that, doing that work. Exactly, right. You know, imagine yourself marching through. So that was another cool one — we both did work—

40:17—but that's the cool part of the job, you know, because every trade is there — doing the same scope at the same time, you know, they might be there a year later building part of the addition, part of the renovation, or whatever. But we get kind of the inside look — again, yeah. We're the first ones on site. The depth of the history — we are always critical path. Yeah, critical path on every—

40:40—renovation, yeah. It's been interesting — we both did a cool project over at the Charlottetown Province House. So that's been a big reno and we've been ongoing there for, I think, two years now. And are a lot of your projects like historic properties? Not a lot, but you know, I'd like to think we both had good reputations as companies. And coming together, you know, hopefully — that's been very important for—

41:07—us, to make sure that continues on. But kind of get trusted to get into some of these delicate situations, and know that we're not going to go wild. We took the elevator core out of Province House, which is where Canada's Confederation was signed, and we weren't allowed to cut anything. And it was a wood structure, so we truly had to take it apart, deconstruct it, carry it down piece by piece and crate it all down—

41:30—and, you know, if there was a chip going — like, all hell broke loose on site, right? So yeah, very delicate. Right there at Confederation. Yeah. That's such a cool story. And that building's got a cool feel to it as well when you walk in there. You're kind of like, oh, this is where it all began. It's where it all began. And so the head office — Inflector is in Ottawa, yes. And there are five different locations now, including Atlantic Canada—

41:56—where are the other offices? So Alberta — we have an office up in Edmonton. And Toronto — there's an office there. And that's a big part of our market. Toronto's a, you know, a lot of work there. Yeah. And Kingston — pretty condensed market there. Yeah, pretty condensed market. Yeah. We did a very large project there — demo and abatement on Macdonald Block, which is their provincial legislature buildings. It was four massive towers. So I think it was the biggest—

42:25—definitely the biggest one ever in Canada done by a company, and I think it would be close for North America. Wow. Yep. I was reading something on the news portion of your online presence — a project that involved, like, five million square feet across several different buildings on a city block. And I'm not sure — that must be it. That's the one. Yeah. Yeah, that's insane. It's — yeah. I walked it when I first came on, and, oh yeah, just being in one building. And you—

42:56—know, multiply that by four — the size and scope and effort and planning that went into that. It was — it was expensive. A lot of work done in Parliament Hill as well, on Centre Block, East Block. Yep. Yeah, lots of neat stories for sure. So tell us — with abatement, we talked about mold, lead — what about other things that maybe wouldn't come to mind so much for people that require abatement? And—

43:38—what's it like when it comes to lead? What's that process like — is the setup the same? Are there different requirements when it comes to removal from site and dumping, where those products need to be disposed of — logistics and things? Maybe just talk a little bit about that kind of back end of things once it's out of the building. Yeah, I mean, setup for the abatement is generally similar across the different designated materials — mold, asbestos, lead. The—

44:10—removal methods are really product-specific and depend on what you get into. Disposal requirements on lead are pretty — the lead has to go all the way to Montreal to get disposed of properly. That's the closest facility. So it's a significant cost. Where is it going from there, do you know? That's a destruction facility, so they — I don't know what sort of process they use — they refine it and turn it back into a raw material. Right. So they're taking it out of — that's its—

44:37—final resting place when it gets there. Yeah, that's my understanding, and it might go back into other products. I'm not sure. Are you aware of that? Oh, I think you're correct. Yeah. And so, I remember being involved in a project as a contractor — there's a hotel in Dartmouth, and just an amazing amount of — I won't name the hotel — but a lot of added work because of the unknown: there wasn't asbestos, but there was a ton of mold—

45:13—and a lot of floors that were priced out for, you know, construction of maybe a new closet wall or a new wall — mold's a tough one, right? It's there, it's probably over there, and it's probably up on that floor too. And then it ends up being a totally different project. Now, whether or not there was enough testing done prior — or if you're opening up one floor and assuming the other six, seven, eight, or ten—

45:39—are good. But regardless of that, it was just a neat thing to be involved in, from that perspective — knowing that they had — and you guys at EnviroBate were probably there. I can't remember, this is a long time ago, but it's like a whole year of just tearing stuff out. It's one thing everywhere. I think I know what you're talking about, but I'm not going to name names. Yeah, it's — one thing is to visually get rid of mold; it's another thing to have it—

46:08—cleared, right? And it's cleared through a tape test — so they'll actually go into a surface, stick the tape, pull it off, put it under a microscope, and read what's there. So again, it's one thing to visually get rid of it; it's another thing to clear it and bring the building back to health. So yeah, it's a lot of cleaning. And for those kinds of things — is it constant? And maybe not so much for—

46:35—public tender jobs — I think that's kind of a given. But if it's a private project, like, you're documenting the whole process. You're dealing with materials that are really serious to people's health — mold is one thing, but asbestos is another, and lead — they have their health repercussions. And it might be a private job — are you documenting those things with certain governance bodies? We have our own processes in place for documentation, and then the clearances that we do are by third—

47:03—party testing agency. So when we're done our job, we'll call in a third party to validate — yes, you've done your job, and we agree that it is finished. Yeah. I imagine there's a lot of insurance in this business, just — especially when you're talking about projects like the ones that are local. The General Hospital — these are huge jobs locally. And then you get into some of the stuff you're—

47:29—talking about in Toronto — it's just — yeah. We interface with the public a lot, right? And we're removing hazardous materials. And we want to validate, number one. The other thing too is, all these tradespeople coming behind us — it's very important to us as a company that we've done our job and done it properly, because those might be my buddies going in, or his—

47:54—family going in afterwards for six months and working after us, right? So these people trust us to do the job properly. And from all the way to tradespeople, to the homeowner, to the end user — a teacher going back into a classroom or something. And to elaborate too on the whole testing part — in a high-profile, public area, we can perform — well, the third party will perform — air—

48:21—monitoring while we're working as well, just to keep everyone's peace of mind. So that is outside of our work area. Yeah. So let's say you take on half of a school — or something — not that you really do work in a school during a school year, but — or a hospital. Let's say you take out a quarter of the hospital and you're doing the work inside of it. There's often monitoring going on all the time while you're working, making sure everyone on the outside is staying safe too, right?

48:47It's interesting. Building to building, client to client — there's a lot of variance in how — Nova Scotia doesn't actually have a regulation, we have a code of practice. And for us, as a company, it would be great to have them come in and formalize the regulations. It's a problem as a province, right? You know — like the building code, not the building code — yeah. So province-wide, it—

49:16—what are the expectations? So federally there's a standard that spans the provinces, and provincially, when you get on a provincial job, they're very involved and everything's watched very closely and followed up on. But there's a lot of pressure when you get into the private sector to cut costs and do things like that, right? Sure. Yeah. I mean, we've always talked about — if they really—

49:42—revamped it, put in a regulation, and really got into the enforcement — keep people honest with the process. You know, like anything, you have to have a referee. You can't just play without one, exactly. Eliminate the shortcuts that may happen in the field, right? Or in the industry. But what about soil and site remediation — did we talk about that? Yeah, no, so as a company we do it here locally — we don't self-perform it hands-on. We do partner with a lot of really—

50:17—good companies that do self-perform. So a lot of the demolition, structural demolition people that we partner with — they'll do that, and we get a lot of the calls because it's been in our sphere. So emergency response in-house — yes, that's right. So that's a bit — yeah, the emergency response is in-house. Correct. And is that something that — I mean, obviously you have certain clients — EnviroBate would have had their relationships, and now these are all under one roof—

50:44—together. But like, is it that a lot of times when you're involved in something on the construction phase, you're talking to the building maintenance guy on the same job, like further down the road, when there are things that need attention? Absolutely. If you're involved in a project in the construction phase, probably post-construction into the operation of the building, you're there too, right? Wrapping your arms around them, making life easy for them, and keeping their building operational. It's very—

51:11—important, because we get in there, do a job, it goes smooth, there are no hiccups, and they're going to want you back when they need some work done. And you've definitely experienced that. Yep. Yeah. We work for a lot of maintenance inside buildings throughout the whole city. So that's where the calls come from. Yeah. You probably get 100 calls from there even. Developers too — a lot of developers call — from being at EnviroBate, we get a lot of—

51:38—developers just calling for our expertise, right? And that's just growing through relationships over the years. It's a lot of grassroots stuff, because it's the maintenance person, the boots on the ground, that's making that call. It's not often gone up the management line — that might be at my level. So if they like the people they had on site, they're going to want those people back, and that's when we get the calls. Yeah. I mean, that's the biggest thing — like—

52:03—you've got to have likable people. I mean, they've got to be competent — yeah, it's just too fast-paced and too much money at stake for competency levels to not be there, no question. But if it's a small place too — I mean, Halifax is growing, but still — in an industry like this, a pleasant person to work with is not going to stay a secret too long. That was a big part of the company's success. Yeah. That was one of the barriers that we—

52:36—pushed through too, because it was the Ontario company coming into the Maritimes. That, you know, that's for sure that would be a thing. And most of our people are all from here and grew up here. Like, I think when I walked in the studio I knew a bunch of the guys here right away and made some connections. So yeah. But, you know, I grew up in — I grew up in Prince Edward Island, that's where I'm from — in the western part. You know, there's always—

52:59—you know, you're in high school growing up — what part of the province you're from, right? I mean, it's comical, but it's real. And that is no different — just a little bigger scale. But it blows over, lasts for a little while, and then it's kind of, like, it's a phase, and then — you know, big deal. It's — but that's true. You know, I think a lot of contractors here will feel a—

53:28—certain way when they hear, oh, somebody from Ontario's business — yeah, we don't want them coming in here getting the work. And they've had bad experiences because sometimes people from central Canada can — yeah — not appreciate the smaller market as much. Because it's smaller, it's not as big, maybe it's not as fast-paced, depending on your attitude. But I've had those experiences myself — working with maybe a GC from, you know, that doesn't do a lot of work out—

53:58—here. And just, not as much respect — it's not home for them. It's a smaller place, probably. Maybe the job doesn't mean as much. You know, they're not going to be here for the next five or ten years. They're not going to see you, so they don't have any motivation or ulterior motive to continue a good relationship. You're just — but that's a neat, interesting topic to drill into, because it's always there, on a lot of jobs—

54:26—moving from province to province, region to region too. Like, it's — all the work gets packaged and executed a little differently. There are different mentalities in how that pushes together. I noticed that moving from Saskatchewan to Halifax — even just how demolition and abatement get packaged together. Like, in Ontario, as well, it's two completely different scopes, whereas here it's all packaged as one scope when you're tendering commercial construction. And that happens on a lot of different scopes, a—

54:55—lot of different skills. Yeah, whether or not they're going to break out certain ceiling scopes from the interiors. So there are reasons for that, right? There's nuance for that. It reminds me of the book Outliers, I think, by Malcolm Gladwell — he talks about, you know, how's a good way to offend young men? Make fun of where they're from. But there's a reason, right? Because where you grew up — like, there's always something about where you—

55:28—grew up that puts a barrier on what you're able to accomplish in your life. If you grow up here, chances are you're not going to be able to do this. It's real — like, some people transcend it, but that's why where you're from has such — I mean, there are lots of reasons — but a lot of times that's a big thing. Where you're from. Like, even if you were to go to central Canada to do a job for the first time — like, when you tried to do one—

55:51—a lot of the problems that could arise on that site — not necessarily from the tender process or how tight you were with your price — could just be the attitude of different cultures, or where different people are from. So I just find that interesting. How different people react — who's more, you know, just a little too uptight about — who's more open? And what the attitude is. It's not like you can define a person — not everybody. It's easy to get—

56:22—stereotypical, but it is a real thing, and there are reasons for it, like in human nature. And you see it a lot in construction, even between the provinces. I mean, I helped grow a business here for several years — you'd have been the outsider coming in, and believe me, I was. It's just — but then, you know, things change a little bit, and your pretences and your fear and things — you know, things that seemed like a big deal aren't. But man, when you're in—

56:57—it, it's a real thing. You're seeing through that lens, and you know, that's the lens you're seeing through until it's gonna change — one job at a time, one relationship at a time. And you know, you get momentum and keep going. And then, yeah, partnering with a local company with a great reputation — I think that's going to really help and solidify us. I think, you know, right, that is definitely a tactical—

57:22—move from the higher end of things. But yeah, it's more stressful to do your job when you have those layers of emotional and psychological stuff going on. Like, it's hard enough to do your job as a project manager. So when there's other stuff added to it — like being the new guy, or being the — yes — it's tough. So Justin, maybe you could tell us a—

57:57—little bit about some of the specialties. I think with your scope of work — some of the gear, some of the technological advancements that might make your projects go better or easier. Some of the things that you're able to do at Inflector — and you know, formerly EnviroBate, now that you've merged together — that other companies can't. Some things on the specialty side. Yeah, so a couple of years ago, EnviroBate purchased a few—

58:25—pieces of gear that were a little bigger than anything that's been around. So one of the items was a 32-inch floor grinder. So we can come in with the 32-inch base floor grinder and polish a concrete floor for floor prep — removing the adhesives off the floor. So we can get upwards of around 2,000 to 3,000 square feet refinished in a shift — a 10-hour shift. So it's come a long way from being on your hands and knees with—

58:56—a 7-inch hand grinder buffing the floor away. So — ask any GC. Yeah, exactly. It's a pretty big deal when it comes to labour force. They definitely smile when that comes on site. On any GC, like scope-gap-wise, it's floor prep, right? So for us to have that service — I think it's a great move. Yeah. So we can go into a 30,000 square foot space and not only do the demo but have the floor prepped, ready for—

59:21—the rebuild all around. Ready for the new substrate or whatever's going on. Yeah. So then every single trade moves in at once and we're out of your hair — and you're not getting other contractors in to try to do stuff we couldn't do, and everything. Yeah. I can't imagine, like, the first time you see one of those — or you're used to the last 20 years doing it otherwise. I've been that guy on my hands and knees, I'm sure — you'd be like—

59:42—amazing yourself, but in a way you'd be kind of like, I just spent 20 years — yeah, exactly. Yeah. All right guys, see the new machine come in and they're like, we've been doing this the whole time and then this thing was over there. Yeah, the lasers from Plum Bobs. Yeah. Yeah, I still like a plumb bob myself. Yeah, actually that's maybe a bad analogy because plumb bobs are probably still better. Yeah. Another item we got was the — was it — concrete track saw. So it's made—

60:11—by Husqvarna, and it's basically fully Bluetooth. So you plug some power into it — it's big power, around 600 volts — but you basically have this track that mounts on the wall or floor or ceiling, basically whatever you want to cut. We can cut up to 24 inches thick. And the guy can stand up to — if I remember correctly — like a hundred feet away. 100 feet away from this saw, and the remote control just sits there on a harness over your shoulders, and it's like—

60:41—playing a video game, and you go buck wild cutting concrete. So it's pretty cool. That's cool. Yeah. And you wish you'd had that down at Scotia Square. Yeah, that's kind of what made us — what made us purchase it. So we can go through with something like that. And then you think — yeah, so it's worth the investment. That's where I was mentioning that we got some other trades in to help us out with that — especially concrete stuff — and that's where we learned, like, we've got to—

61:03—step it up here a little bit. So we're always into the floor-cutting portion of concrete — you've got your walk-behind saw that's cutting about 8 inches of concrete — but then at Scotia Square we realized there's a lot of these concrete upstands that were 14 inches thick, you know, six feet tall. And we had about 120 feet of it or something to cut. So we had to bring someone in with that gear to help us on that project, and then we said—

61:28—you know, why don't we just buy our own? Because it's just dabbing into it a little more, right? We're already doing concrete cutting, so we're not really taking work from anybody — we're just adding more options to the industry. Sure, yeah. And then another cool one was — we got a fully electric robot. So it's made by Husqvarna as well, fully Bluetooth. It's — it talks — it doesn't talk, I wish — it makes a lot of cool noises. But again, you can stand like 100 feet away from this thing. You could — before — tell us—

61:58—like, so it's an excavator — fully robotic, as in electronic and remote-controlled. From — throw up some equipment here as one of the sound bites for — yeah, what you're talking about. And yeah, again, you stand 100 feet away from it, you've got this controller in front of you that tells you everything about it — you know, how much power it's getting, how much power is put down, what each piece of equipment you have on it is, how it's performing. It's—

62:28—self-maintaining as well. So it's pretty cool. And the ideal task for it — we bought it basically to crush up this old bank vault. Is that the Maritime Centre, right up the street here? So we got into this project and there's this giant vault. Because you have to dismantle it or crush it before it can leave the site. The vault was made of pure concrete — 16-inch walls of all concrete, with about — there were six—

63:00—or eight mats of rebar inside the concrete — the walls of the vault itself, yeah. And the ceiling. So it's a concrete box, basically — like a bomb shelter sitting on the second floor of a building. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So what bank was there? I don't know if there was a bank, or if it was just — you know, some people use old vaults for storage, like you see them in Canada Post buildings and stuff like that too. So that's a pretty serious vault though. Yeah, it was very serious. So we got this—

63:28—thing in — the guys from Husqvarna flew down from Ontario and gave us a crash course. We put our boys on it — we were two or three weeks on it with four guys, and we got this chunk out, maybe eight feet by eight feet by four feet high — eight feet by four feet — in three weeks. Yeah, about three weeks, with a bunch of guys with jackhammers. And this thing was about 20 feet long by 12 feet deep and about 10 feet—

63:55—high. And after the robot showed up, we had that thing demolished and out the door in about seven shifts. So — how would it look leaving out the door? In like 10 different pieces or just like the wall fully intact? Oh, the vault itself — oh, just crumbled. Just crumbled concrete debris. So we had a jackhammer on it, and we also have a pulverizer on it as well. And the pulverizer actually has—

64:21—40-ton crushing capacity to it. So you just put the concrete in the middle of that and it crushes it to pieces, and then you just put the debris in a wheelbarrow and wheel it to the truck. Yeah. It was pretty cool — a pretty cool purchase. And especially to get there and run it. And then we did a couple more up in New Brunswick — same thing, crushing vaults out of these buildings in days instead of weeks or months—

64:42—right. Crushing vaults — and churches too. Yeah. Yeah, it's a pretty cool machine — you have to check it out, like, look up Husqvarna electric demolition robot. So it's a great thing. And the vault — there's always going to be a vault if we're doing a bank, because there's always going to be a vault, it's got to be dismantled or able to be removed. And it's like — yeah, can't take it out on more than a piece. Elevator shafts too — elevator shafts. And a lot of the time with the vaults—

65:07—too, it's like there's no one really that can go in and bust this thing out in a timely manner to get the building back up and running. So a lot of the times you see them just turn it into an office or something. Yeah, somebody — they need to remove it. Yeah. The last person in. Yeah. Don't lock the door behind you. The other interesting thing about it too is, it's all electric. You know—

65:34—you can bring mini excavators in, but they're all diesel, right? So they're choking out diesel fumes. And this comes in and it's just straight electric — there's no off-gassing to it. So you can bring it into an occupied building. It might be a little loud, so you're probably going to do it at night. But yeah, there's not much you can do about the noise on that. No, not at all. That's the unfortunate part of demo — you're always on night—

65:57—shift. So yeah. Well, there's another good point — that's a big part of your business too, right? Yeah. How much of your work is carried out on night shift, would you say? I'd say probably 50%. Really? Like, you get into doing some grocery stores — as little as possible. Like, my biological clock — I mean, I've worked night shift before — I could never adjust. That's the good thing about a lot of our guys: they're just so used to it. They do—

66:25—the guys that work most of the night shift — do they just consistently stay on it, or are you switching them back and forth? Our crew is so versatile that, honestly, they just jump into whatever — it's not at all — they wouldn't be working there. Exactly. Those three months of night shift and then jump back on days, and then a month later they're asked to go back on nights. Actually, I don't really sleep anymore—

66:46—that was one thing — coming from the GC world to the sub-trade world, I wasn't so sure about, you know, going working with the demo workers. The reputation — I mean, they're rough and humble — but that was my favourite. That's my favourite part. I love the guys — the people we work with are so fun and interesting, and just show up and go at it every day. Hard work, right? You're gonna show up—

67:09—like you're showing up to a football game. They're tough people. And it's not like — awesome. The demo kind of gets a bad reputation too, I find. You know, the demo guys are rough — they're bringing sledgehammers in to rip and tear this place out. But as Dan mentioned about that elevator — you gotta study how these things are put together to know how to take them apart in a proper and safe manner. So it's deconstruction. It's deconstruction. Yeah—

67:33—you're not just — it might appear to people that you're just knocking walls over and stuff. Like, yeah, it's more than that. Absolutely. And you've got to be a jack of all trades, really — you've got to know a little bit of every trade to make sure you're not messing other things up. My favourite is, you know, you get the new person on site and they go a little wild and beat them all down, and they're all pumped up. Yeah, it feels pretty good—

67:55—right? It's like, okay, clean it up now. All right, yes. Whereas if they took it apart in the right manner, it's not a major mess, right? That's one of the first learning hurdles when you get new people learning the trade. Yeah. You see that for sure. You see the home renovation shows — yeah, running through the walls, and people taking sledgehammers to countertops and people's kitchens — that's just not how we do things—

68:18—so yeah. No, it's almost comical, right? Yeah, yeah. But it's always good to get that insight — it brings more respect to the trades. You know, we were talking to some of our subs — I mean, we've had landscaping companies, we've had painting companies, cladding companies. And yeah, people have assumptions, you know. Even in architectural drywall or painting, there's probably some kind of — whether it's true or false—

68:46—hierarchy. It's like, well, you're maybe a glorified labourer if you're doing this kind of task. But there's always more to it than that, and you think you can do things and go try it on your own home reno — you're just going to make a mess. We're the only sub-trade that touches every scope, yeah, right? So we deconstruct roofs, ceilings, mechanical, electrical, concrete, drywall, flooring — everything that goes into that building, we remove, right, at some phase or—

69:15—point on different jobs. So not a lot of sub-trades, or companies in general, can say that they touch every aspect of a building. Yeah. That is one of the funnest, most interesting, enjoyable parts of doing what we're doing here at the Atlantic Construction Podcast — you just get so many different perspectives. The insight it takes to produce a new building — the knowledge and experience — it's like, we're all prideful and we like to—

69:47—point at the things we've done. But one of the things I've realized is, man, I really didn't know that much at all. Like, when you think of all these different people with different backgrounds — so much knowledge, it's really insightful. It's really humbling. I had a professor or a teacher at NSCC, and when we finished the course — it's everyone's last day — there's a big, clean whiteboard—

70:12—and he put a little dot on it and said, you know, this whiteboard is the construction industry, and what you know is that little dot. Kind of said, go fill your whiteboard. And what you're speaking about — exactly. It's — and it's funny when you're working for the GC too. You kind of think you know all — you know enough to be dangerous when you're on that end. Then when you get—

70:34—into it, I got into this and it's like, wow, I didn't realize how detailed and thought-out it needs to be when you're the person doing that work. Yeah. And hopefully some of that will spill out to listeners that are in the industry — just so that maybe next time you're up the hill, or over in New Brunswick, before you start bashing your demo crew or the — for all the trades guys — yeah, it's like, you—

71:00—know, maybe you don't know quite as much, and maybe this is why it takes that long. Just pause before you have that little conversation in the morning after. Yeah. It's really neat. So where do you guys see — and this question might be for both of you, Justin and Dan, or maybe more for you Dan — Justin, feel free — where are things kind of headed as far as down the pipeline, with—

71:25—the market the way it is in Atlantic Canada, with this recent acquisition, and now you're off and rolling? I mean, the immediate — the biggest thing for the first goal — is to get the two companies truly merged together, gel together, and make sure that the clients that EnviroBate's been servicing and taking care of for all these years are definitely met. Same thing with our rep clients. Before we start—

71:53—really going out and chasing new people. It's something I always say: I could go and try to find a new client, knock on the door of a university. But if we don't have the resources to take that on — right, right in front of you — then you build that relationship only to fall on your face when you do the job. Right. You just took on — how many different—

72:16—relationships from EnviroBate? With EnviroBate's — exactly, right. And great relationships, I'm sure — they are. So it's back to that grassroots — making sure that we have that solidified. And the pipeline for Atlantic Canada is great. You know, you look at New Brunswick, PEI, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland — all these hospitals were built in the 50s, 60s, 70s. Same thing with the schools. And they're coming towards the end of their life, yeah. They're coming to that critical point. Yeah. And—

72:43—they're either being renovated or brought down to make room for new. So our market is there. And we're well-positioned to service it — especially with this merger. And we've got a lot of that specialized gear that Justin was talking about, and we've got a great labour force, which I was talking about earlier — love the guys, love the people. How many guys would you say are on the labour force right—

73:06—now, on the team? We're well over 100. Yeah, yeah. And there are 10 or 12 project managers there? Like, different — yeah, yeah, not quite that many, but you're getting up there. But it takes a few to manage that volume of crew. Absolutely. What about the governance? You mentioned the governance earlier — the province of Nova Scotia being a little bit different from every other province — and how important that is for the private jobs and different stuff? Like—

73:32—that seems like — yeah, are you hoping to see some changes, some improvements? Like, if there was an overall regulation issued in Nova Scotia, it would be beneficial to everybody in the industry, right? And of course the enforcement that goes along with it — we feel that would benefit us as a company. We do what we need to do to do the job, and often we go above and beyond—

73:57—what's stipulated. You know, there's a lot in the regulations that is there, and it's excellent. But it's just the consistency that — can you take, or are you taking, that stance to further that cause for you and for other people? Like, is there — with the association, with the board? I think federally and provincially it's in motion, and you see it improved upon all the time. And really what—

74:22—they've done is they've adopted other regulations, so it's there. But I'm sure that's something you're talking about when you're talking to your boss and CEO in Ottawa, and what it's like in Alberta — it's probably different. It's much different there. And I mean, it could be as simple as raising the standards for training for the workers. They could implement the requirement that the workers have a certain period of training, and—

74:46—that's just going to standardize that across the industry. A lot of provinces have done that. And that's just going to build up the competency of the tradespeople and the performance of the work. Sure. And we didn't really touch on training — but other than WHMIS and first aid and your typical trades training that any contractor needs for commercial, industrial, institutional jobs — is everybody that works for Inflector — you know—

75:12—are there asbestos courses that need to be completed? You know — different ones. I assume there are a lot more credentials and things needed, especially courses. The minimum standard is awareness, and as a company we've three-day-trained all of our people. And we're in the process of getting all the EnviroBate people and making sure everybody's got that three-day training course — they're put on by the third-party consultants. So yeah. And we have—

75:39—the capabilities to do it in-house as well. And that just — training, yeah — runs you through the products, the hazardous materials you encounter, how to shower and shower properly, how to build a proper containment. Basically all the fail-safes that are in place. Any final thoughts, Justin? I don't know — I think we touched on everything. Yeah, we did. Great conversation. It's really been really enjoyable — to kind of sit and reminisce on some projects and talk—

76:08—about the exciting acquisition and the two companies coming together. It's like-minded people in the industry and some great stories. And this has been a really good sit-down and a really good conversation. Thank you guys for doing this and for coming on and sharing this. And hopefully we can have — whether it's people tuning in that are maybe unaware of what it's like to work at a company like this, that—

76:38—maybe will reach out if they're looking — because I'm sure there's lots of hiring happening with every contractor, so you could probably use the men on site. Well, absolutely. So that's one, yeah — that's one thing. And just to get some insight into the different services — abatement and demo — it's been very insightful. So yeah, thanks for doing this, Justin and Dan. This has been—

77:06—awesome. I appreciate it. No problem. Yeah, it's awesome. Thank you very much. Cheers. This episode is brought to you by Cook Insurance — your trusted insurance broker in Atlantic Canada for 50 years. Insurance is complex, and the Cook team focuses on delivering comprehensive solutions for your construction needs, including builder's risk, wrap-up liability, performance bonds, and project-specific construction. A Navacord partner since 2020, Cook is one of the largest construction brokers in Canada and offers national strength with a local touch. Whatever your insurance needs are, Cook has you covered. We would like to—

77:40—take this time to thank a long-time sponsor of our media platform, FCA Surety. The brokers of FCA Surety are experts in all surety bonding categories and provide unparalleled service during the bonding process. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the Atlantic Construction Podcast. Be sure to follow us on any podcast platform you use. You can also find us on LinkedIn and Instagram at @atlanticconstructionpodcast. Be sure to send us a comment or a review — we'd love to engage with you.