Why Culture Drives Your Construction Business (Procore's Culture Team)

0:00Welcome back to the Atlantic Construction Podcast. Very pleased to have our special Procore episode today, with three members of their culture team. We have Craig Fischer tuning in from Spokane, Washington, Yasmeen Tonnos from the Toronto headquarters office, and Lisa O'Brien, who's in Boulder, Colorado. So we'll be talking about all things culture at Procore — lots of different programs and topics to discuss. It's going to be a really interesting conversation; I really look forward to it. Maybe we could start

0:36ladies and gentlemen with just a little recap of Groundbreak. Your team was just at Groundbreak — lots of Procore members there, huge event every year, amazing guest speakers, just very innovative and kind of the tip of the sword for the industry. Maybe we could recap your highlights from the weekend. Can we start with you, Lisa? I know you were saying — I think you were talking about the Phelps talk and just his

1:11vulnerability and his brand and whatnot. Definitely a highlight for me. We had Fred Mills from The B1M, who's become a really good friend of Procore, especially in terms of advocating for mental health and suicide awareness in the industry. He actually interviewed Michael Phelps, and it was such a fascinating conversation to hear directly from Michael Phelps — all the ways that he was able to achieve things that have never been achieved and may never be achieved again, and yet he just presented himself with his own

1:48humanity — really vulnerable about the challenges that he had with mental health and how he overcame those, and how he's even currently still overcoming that piece of his journey, and how he's owning his own mental health and also becoming a real advocate in the world for that. Thanks for sharing that, Lisa. What about yourself, Yasmeen? What was the highlight for you on the weekend — a speaker, or even a conversation, or just what it meant to Procore? I mean, I think it was my first Groundbreak, so I

2:18think everything was exciting and new for me. So I really loved being in the same space as our colleagues but also our clients in the industry, and having a lot of really great conversations with everybody. But I think the highlight for me was one of the keynote speakers, which was Laila Ali. I learned a lot about her story and background — obviously a lot of us are familiar with her name, but not too many of us were familiar with her story — understanding the power of the

2:49mind, how pretty late in life she made her mind up that she wanted to be a professional boxer, and then just the incredible career that she has had since then — and a lot of that contributing to just her confidence, her inner strength, and the power of the mind. So it was definitely many, many awesome keynotes and speakers and events taking place throughout those few days, but that was a highlight for me. Yeah, we were talking just pre-episode about how she didn't start boxing until

3:20she was 19, which — when you think about it, that's crazy. Like, you know, most kids playing a pro sport, you know, they put on skates or boxing gloves when they were like three or four. That's really inspiring. And she never even played another sport — no other sport. She just decided at 19. So it was really neat. Wow. What about yourself, Craig? Yeah, like — yes, it was my first Groundbreak, so it was really cool to meet so many clients and partners.

3:48I think — gosh — highlight for me was just to talk with so many execs about the sort of people issues they're facing, whether it's generational changes, kind of handing off from one generation to the next, adapting to — there's so many stresses and pressures in the industry. And so we got to hear from some leaders who made lots of progress, let's say for example mentoring and raising up leaders in their industry. So we got to hear from a panel of women executives talking about their own journey, but then

4:19how they mentor, how they ask all of us to lend a hand in that. And because the constraints are so vivid for everyone in the audience, it was really inspiring to see these folks who made a lot of progress — in this case, just expanding their leadership base and bringing out talent from places where maybe the industry 20 years ago just wasn't paying attention. And so, because of those constraints, it's kind of inspiring to hear those stories. So that's probably the biggest takeaway

4:48I'm leaving with. Yeah, wow. I mean, that'd be one for myself as well. There's so much value in providing those programs to facilitate mentorship, right — whether it's handing over businesses from one generation to the next, or just raising up new leaders in this industry, to make sure the support's there and the mentorship is there to guide them through different problems that need to be solved where the experience level might not be there yet. So that's

5:15there's huge value in that. That's one of the great things about Procore — that you have your own internal experience, as Melissa was saying pre-episode, with Procore's culture and everything that you cultivate within such a large, you know, global — the leading global project management software and tech company in the industry. But also you're facilitating a culture with construction companies that are using your software and that are connected and engaged with you. So we're going to

5:47talk about all those things. Where should we start? I mean, we could start with Culture Academy — Yasmeen, maybe you could tell us a little bit about the framework with that. So, Dan, Culture Academy — some people are familiar with it, others aren't. I'll give you a bit of the backstory. It started in 2019 and it is a two-and-a-half-day white-glove executive experience that we offer to the industry. It's right now kind of our gift to the industry, and it is really incredible what happens over

6:23those two and a half days. Historically we've had it take place at our head office in Santa Barbara, California, but some exciting things about 2024 is that we will now actually be offering it in Tampa, Florida, Austin, Texas, as well as our head office. So depending on where our clients or our partners are located around North America, they can come to a location and time zone that works well for them. But essentially what we do over those two and a half days is we share a little bit

6:57about what we've learned on our journey at Procore from a culture standpoint — when it comes to topics like leadership development, talent attraction, DEIB, which is becoming a very popular topic right now in the industry, what we've learned from our culture story, the importance of our mission, vision, and values. And so we pull back the curtain and share a little bit about what we've learned. But then we also create an environment where there are cohorts that take place during these two and a half days. And we always

7:26say the genius is in the room. Lisa and Craig can attest to this — that a lot of the times the most powerful conversations come from being able to just let your guard down and have conversations about your current strengths, your current challenges that you might be facing with regards to culture. And I think a lot of people, especially over the last few years, even if they had a strong pulse on their culture, they've emerged from the pandemic and are really looking to redefine or explore what the

7:57current state of their culture is today. And so being able to have those really intimate conversations with fellow people in the industry is very transformative. And it's a really, really great experience. We only really have around 20 people in each one, so it creates such a great intimate atmosphere and very rich dialogue and conversation. So how often are these two-and-a-half-day Culture Academy sessions put on? And how do you decide kind of who

8:29is involved in each one — is there a selection process? Maybe tell us a little bit about that. Great question, Dan. So it's right now three times a year. We have it open to anyone in the industry. Usually we just say please reach out to our team, and we can hopefully share some resources with you that you could post afterwards so that if people are interested they can contact us and reach out. But we try to aim it more towards

8:55executives — so C-Suite, or other decision-makers or influencers within the organization. And what we've actually found to be really beneficial is to not just have one individual but to actually have two representatives from each organization come. The beauty of that is you're not alone on this journey — you're going through it together, you are learning and understanding, and speaking a similar language by going through a shared experience. And then this way, if they have the desire to go back to their organization and evoke any type of

9:30change, or apply any of the lessons that they've learned over the course of that two and a half days at Culture Academy, they aren't going and trying to do that on their own — they have a collaborator and someone that they can partner with. So we actually find that, out of the three times a year that we do it, we try to get at least two representatives from every organization to come out to each of the different Culture Academies, right? And I suppose that

9:57makes a lot of sense too, right? Because if you have influencers from the organization — you have at least two — and really, I'm trying to somewhat simplify, because sometimes these things appear very vast and complex. And even internally at Procore, such a large company, really culture is going to be forged by the leaders. How the leaders carry themselves is going to trickle down through different layers and different parts of the business. So

10:30it really comes down to forging the culture within the individuals that have — like you said, Yasmeen — the influence, or the ability to impact those that are around them. Exactly. Yeah, and what we say too — to your point — it's very hard when one individual is trying to just be the champion and carry that torch on their own. And one of the first steps to really creating a successful culture, or creating a culture transformation, is leadership alignment. So the more leaders

11:04that we can get on board from day one, the more successful that will likely be. And so that's why we really try to encourage at least two, and there's been times where we've even encouraged four people to come, or five people to come, just depending on what's happening within that organization. Yeah, I'm thinking of some of the organizations that would come and partake — there'd be so many different types of contractors from different backgrounds, and they're running huge operations and

11:34so immersed in their businesses. There are so many pains and struggles to figure out, and sometimes without taking a step outside you can't really think straight — you've got to kind of get off the treadmill and get some new ideas in a free mental space. And when people think — even when they might tune into this episode — like, "culture," well, what's everybody keep talking about culture for? You guys

12:02are filling just a small portion of that division within Procore. Really, it's — and this is a question for all of you — it's like you're kind of coaching, you're kind of a business coach. I kind of think of it like a hockey coach in the NHL or a coach of a football team, right? You've got to know about technology, you've got to know about the industry, but really your job is to get to know the

12:30needs of your players, and you know, have those open honest conversations. You're kind of coaching them, you're facilitating ideas, you're engaging with their issues and problems, and then you're giving them like a set of values to create — it's teamwork. How would you all describe culture? Because we kind of throw that word around. We all live in culture, there are these things like I want to

13:03impact the culture in a way instead of just being a byproduct of the culture. But for each of you who work in such a serious role in creating culture — what do you mean when you say culture? That's such a good question. I love that question. You know, there are a lot of ways that you can talk about it. I think the way that we tend to

13:34focus on it — culture is essentially — there are a lot of ways we could talk about it, I'm trying to let my brain find the one. Culture is actually how we work together. Lots of companies will talk about what they do — we build buildings, we XYZ — and they'll talk about why they do it, because we're trying to make our community better, because we XYZ, whatever their "why" is. Culture really gets down to the nitty-gritty of the "how." How do we

14:06operate together? When you work with someone from Procore, for instance — just because that's the culture we know the most about — there's a certain experience that you will have. You will notice certain elements of how you work with us, because our culture is so clearly not only articulated and defined, but embodied and lived. We believe that culture is much more than a poster on the wall. It starts with leadership; it's embodied and lived in a way that is experienced throughout the organization. A lot of times people talk

14:39about culture and they'll say, if you don't know what your culture is, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist — it does. And if you don't actually have your culture articulated in an intentional way and are building towards something, your culture is usually determined by the worst behavior that you're willing to accept. Wow, that's powerful. So I just want to add to that — you see culture come alive, maybe especially when organizations and leaders are under pressure. So we just walked through — or ran through, or dragged ourselves through —

15:11the pandemic. And organizations that had healthy cultures — they at least knew their North Star. They knew, "well, we don't necessarily know what the future is bringing, but we know this is how our company needs to show up and how it needs to feel to work here." And so Procore's story navigated through those values. If you operate outside of your stated values under pressure, that becomes your culture. And so we have compassion for that, and humility around that, when we work with clients. But that pressure can

15:41really either make that culture come alive — and actually replicate through your leadership — or it can break down. Whether it's money stress, pressures from the outside, or something as crazy as the pandemic. So that's sometimes where you see culture really show up. If it's healthy, it even becomes more vivid; and if it's not healthy, it can kind of break apart under pressure. Yeah, it's like that old saying — diamonds are formed under pressure. And I love what Lisa and Craig just

16:11shared, because it speaks to the most important thing that we really share at Culture Academy — which is, we don't just talk about culture because it's a fun, fluffy, lovely thing to chat about. We talk about it because we believe there's a direct link between culture and business. Our philosophy is that culture drives business and business drives culture, and that's why we think culture needs to be such a priority for leaders and for organizations — because it's not just a thing, it's actually how decisions are being made,

16:48how people collaborate, how people motivate each other, how it shows up in your everyday behaviors and your systems. And so that's why we make it such a priority. And we also see such interest from people to attend this Academy, because they're walking away recognizing that they're not just investing in their culture — they're investing in driving their business forward. Yasmeen, I really like how you said that this isn't just a big fluffy word. And if I'm being honest, I think a lot of people — and maybe even more so in

17:20this industry, just because it has such a blue-collar element to it where you don't think of these words maybe correctly — it probably is perceived by a lot of people as a big fluffy word, and they're so tired of hearing about it. But I was thinking about what you said, Lisa — if you don't know what your culture is, it doesn't mean you don't have one. You still have one, whether you know it or whether you've worked on it or even

17:42thought about it or not, right? It comes from how you treat people. And like you said, it's how we do things. It doesn't matter — we could be building buildings, we could be estimating, we could be in any industry — but it's how do we do it, right? We need to make money, we need to have all these things in business that need to happen in order to stay in business. But how are we going to go about that? And Craig, I like what you said too — whenever

18:06things are under pressure, there's more stress, whether it's finance or timelines — that's when the culture shows up. And I'm thinking like, a lot of business owners and people who take on that risk and stress — they're carrying the weight of that on their shoulders. This is one of those things that if they've always thought wrongly about culture and they haven't put the time in to kind of narrow and focus — okay, how do we do things, and what is our culture, what is

18:34our goal — it's like a business that doesn't really know what it is to the market. So you're not making decisions within a framework of a clear path to who you are and where you're headed, and then you're kind of saying yes to things you shouldn't and no to things you should say yes to, and everything is kind of jumbled. And sometimes as a business owner, years will go by and you realize how much stress you were under until you did this certain thing that somebody's been trying to get you to do

19:03or sell you on, and then all of a sudden you're sleeping 50% better at night because things are set, because those questions are answered, because there's kind of like a peace of mind — there's a whole holistic thing that fits together like a puzzle, and then the air is kind of cleared. And like you said, Lisa — what's the worst behavior you're going to accept? And those things, those boundaries — it's like someone who has poor

19:31boundaries — you're kind of in the fog all the time, you can't say no to anything. And it's kind of setting boundaries for your business. And I think — yeah, I think just because of how you're going to think about your culture — and I'm not saying everyone, lots of people are very up on this and it needs to be that way, you can't run a healthy business without it. But I'm thinking of other people I know in the industry who just, "oh, here

19:58we go talking about culture again," right? Very interesting. Yeah, yeah. I love that perspective, because I think one of the things that we notice a lot of times when we're speaking to executives is this theme — where there are a lot of executives who are still kind of trying to figure out the culture piece. It does feel like this intangible, fluffy soft skill. And we have a business to run, and we get that and respect that. And we say, if you can actually figure out

20:29how culture drives your business, and you can then — as you would with any good business strategy — invest in it, and you then let the business drive the culture, you get this flywheel effect of growth. You see a lot of our clients who've been through this and who've unlocked the key for them, and the theme is that they spend a lot of time — those executives working in the business, like, let's move the business forward. They work in the business and they forget, at the executive level, to take a step back

20:59and work on the business. Yeah. And by taking focus on working on the business, they're able to drive more business than they usually can imagine. Yeah, I think it's one of the hardest things — to change people's thinking. It's so ingrained. You have those pathways in your brain so ingrained from just doing something always the way you did it. It's very difficult, minus the virtue of trying to be humble enough to listen to others, and hear, and be open-minded

21:30while — like you said — you're running a business. "We have a business to run here, we have things to do, I don't have time" — that kind of mentality. Yeah. I liked your metaphor before about the kind of coach. I think with consulting, very often people have great intentions and great ideas, and they could use some extra capacity. And that's one of the ways you can use Consulting Services — sort of be a guide to help people get to the

21:58balcony, but also be a thought partner. And I like the sports metaphor too, because they're still doing the hard work — they're still the one in the boxing ring, or whatever it is. And we're there to be a resource, because they have to vote with their time and their language and those kinds of things. But you're right — so often leaders are really, really busy with what's already in front of them. So helping them gain that perspective and then activate the culture. Yeah, yeah, I like what

22:26Lisa said too — they're immersed in their business, and the business is running them instead of them running the business. And you hear a lot of experienced business owners who reach or get past a certain milestone, whether it's going from a million in revenue to 10, or 50 to 100 — it becomes a different machine that you're kind of overseeing. And I think a lot of people will talk about things like

22:52Traction, or other coaching methods to kind of forge your business and be able to create the frameworks and models to be able to step back and make the vision decisions while the business operates itself. And otherwise it's just so overwhelming, it's not even possible. And just — you know, with what you're saying, which I know might sound clichéd — it's like, business drives culture and culture drives business. To understand that is a big part of being able to set

23:24your time in the right categories for all the mental capacity you might have to look to the future, while you're creating or managing this business that's out there in the market operating on its own. So it's enlightening to talk about this for myself as well, and I'm trying to ask questions that — while other business leaders and contractors are tuning in — they can start to think in the right fashion about what culture means. I love that. And I think the other piece

23:59Craig can speak really deeply to is — yes, we focus at the executive level. That's really where change happens, that's where the strategic shift of transformation happens. And then equipping those leaders, equipping the next layer down that are actually executing the business, also then becomes imperative for that change to happen. Yeah, yeah, and there has to be strong communication there too, right? Everyone really has to be on the same page to be able to execute like that. And back to the sports analogy, Craig —

24:35teams that win the Super Bowl or the Stanley Cup aren't always the teams that have all the cash cows or the star players, right? It's how they operate, how they play as a team. You see these underdogs winning certain years — what's the secret? How did they get that far in the playoffs or in the Super Bowl? And it comes down to how they operate right — as individuals

25:05with each other toward a common goal. And we really see like, cultivating high-performing teams — do two to five, whatever X amount of work for the same FTE. I mean, there's a really business-focused reason to grow your leaders, because we'd all love more people. But if a team is high-performing, the amount they can accomplish and the amount they can affect change — they also tend to have lower turnover, lower safety issues, people want to be on their team. Some of that stuff is a little harder to

25:36measure, but we all know if we've been on one of those teams. If you have those teams in your company, then you can punch way above your weight — forgive the sports metaphors — but we see, we'll never have enough people, but if those same people can operate in a way that's just way more effective and much more driven, then you can do a lot more as an owner or executive. Yasmeen, do you want to talk a

26:04little bit about the internal culture at Procore? We had Melissa Hyland Miller on a few months ago and we had a great conversation. Do you want to just kind of give us a little background about your goals with the culture at Procore, and sort of what it looks like, and maybe where it's headed and how you're forging the way? Yeah, yeah. Well, I think I can even just share from firsthand experience. So, Craig — little insight — Craig and I both

26:33joined the organization this year. We only joined in April of this year, so we're just rounding our six-month mark. And what I can tell you is Procore's words line up with their actions. What I mean by that is, when we went through the interview process, they said, "We're a people-first company, we're people first." And that's great — a lot of companies say that — but they don't necessarily live it on a daily basis. And what's been so

27:02incredible, being an employee and being here for the first six months, is there's not a day that goes by where they are not a people-first company. And we're all very committed, no matter what our department is, to our mission, vision, and values. And that's a big part of culture — having that deeply embedded into what we do on a daily basis, regardless of what department you're in. We're all working towards improving the lives of everyone in construction. We're all

27:32committed to our values, and so I see that continuing to grow and be a priority for us. Our vision has not changed, and that's a big part of what drives all of us, how we are motivated, and what really brings us together. So it's been such a pleasure. One of those stories that I laugh and tell often, just as an example — as you did with the introductions, we're all in different time zones, and so being based in Toronto,

28:00I remember during our first couple of weeks we happened to have a call over lunch — our team meeting took place at 12:00 noon my time. And after a week or two, my team sat me down on the call and they said, "Yasmeen, we need to talk to you." I thought, "Oh no, is everything okay?" And they said, "We noticed that this call is on your lunch hour, and we really want to make sure we give you this time."

28:24And I said, "You guys, I haven't taken a lunch hour in 12 years. I don't think I've ever taken a lunch. I can stand and eat a salad in about two minutes." They said, "No, no, no, no — we want you to actually take 30 minutes to just disconnect." And I laugh and tell that as a small example of a story, but I think it speaks volumes to just how much they genuinely mean that they care about our people. So our culture is

28:47really clear, our vision's really clear, none of that's changing. It's just about continuing to feed into that and continue to build and develop the awesome culture that we already have. Yeah, no, that is amazing. And like you said, people-first — it's not just a saying or a mission statement — I hate that term — but you know, that you slap on the door. That's not really what's happening. One of the biggest things that kind of churns my stomach is

29:16when you see a company that's out there and people have experienced them and it hasn't been a good experience, and you hear the leadership talking about it, you know, and everyone's kind of just laughing like, "That's not how things really are, it's just kind of PR stuff." And so you're so right that it's not just words — it's action. And to see that line up means a lot to the employees and the people you

29:43do business with. And yeah, thank you for sharing that. Craig, do you want to talk about Project Engage? That's a big thing — a six-month leadership development program. You're working with executives and different people in the industry, and it's just amazing work. So maybe you could fill us in on how that's going and give a little background. Yeah, thanks for asking. So it's a partnership between AGC of California and Procore to really

30:15think about how to grow leaders in the construction industry, focusing on what Procore does best and then connecting with industry-specific challenges — workforce development, those kinds of things — through the lens of people leadership, leading culture, and leading teams, like we were talking about. So registration is now open, and it starts in March 2024, and it will be a cohort. We have a little more space than Culture Academy, so we picture companies sending four, six, ten folks that are at any level of people leadership, so that they come back and are able to

30:51really create change or steward whatever transformation they're focused on as a company. And the design of the program — it starts in person, ends in person, and in between, connections via technology with small groups of peers. So large group learning, small group learning. And as we mentioned with Culture Academy, the genius of setting down the competitive hat and just talking shop with fellow leaders about emerging challenges — what they're seeing, maybe some lessons learned — all those things really grow

31:24each other. So learning from the program, then taking that back into their teams and their context. And one of the things we're excited to offer is we have ICF-certified executive coaches. So these leaders over six months are going to dramatically improve the skills they focus on. Because you learn some great frameworks and hear from industry experts, go into your context, give it a try — some of it works, some of it you see your growth edges, or you take your lumps because it wasn't as simple

31:53as it seemed — and then you go and work with a coach and work with your peers to top off those skills. So it's really a way to transform leaders from the inside out in the program. And I don't know if I mentioned, but it's only for construction. So part of what we want to do is have it be extremely relevant for these busy people — if they're going to vote with their time and money to join the program, we want them to be getting

32:16the most out of it. Yeah. And I think it's one of those pieces of Procore's services and offerings that really paints the picture that, yes, it's a tech company and yes, we provide all these different technology services to manage these projects and all the complexities — but it's more than that, right? You're offering coaching, you're offering consulting, you're kind of wrapping your arms around a lot of these companies to develop their leaders, and it's really so much more than a tech company

32:44in that sense. Would that be correct in saying? 100%. We do not want to be seen as a tech company, actually. We want to be seen as an industry partner. And — that's not just words, that's not a PR campaign — we actually live and embody that and put our action to it. Yes, we do provide technology and we are deeply committed to this industry, and to be partners with this industry in solving all of the challenges that face it, so

33:18that this industry — the construction industry specifically — can not only continue to build and innovate into the future, but eventually our dream would be that this became an industry of choice. That people wanted to come to the construction industry not only for the challenge and for the purpose of building the world, but also because it was a great place to build a career and a great place to work. Yeah, and I think your efforts — and for us at the Atlantic Construction Podcast, obviously

33:54with whatever impact we might have, which wouldn't be in comparison — but it is, in a way. You are changing the — again, we talk about culture and how people think about that word, and that's really what you're doing at Procore: you're changing people's thoughts about the industry and how they feel about it, and maybe some stigmas they had about it from years past, or how people feel about entering construction if you're this race or if you're this gender or if you're this

34:24or that. And what does it actually mean? So that's — it's such a thing. In our partnership obviously with Procore, our missions are very aligned. We're talking to a lot of different people — be it architects or engineers or general contractors or different subcontractors, associations, and suppliers — and giving an inside look at what it means, because people's experiences are so different. You could be a contractor in plumbing or landscaping

34:56and your experience of the industry is one thing, and it's a huge part of it, but it's very different than someone who's an engineer or consultant or a general contractor who's taking on all this risk and facilitating all the construction side of these major projects. So it's tough to encapsulate what the industry is. People say "construction" — what do they think? What do they think when they say "culture"? What do they think when they say "construction"? Because you could think building bridges, or they

35:25think swinging a hammer. But what it is is something — it's actually hard to define. Any thoughts on that? It is the most complex industry, I believe, in the world. I've worked in change management, executive and organizational development for 20 years, in almost every industry that exists. The construction industry is one of the third-most lagging industries in the world in terms of change. And when I joined Procore five years ago, it was the first exposure I had to the construction industry, and

36:04to your point, I would have thought, "Construction? Oh, it's building houses, it's building buildings." I've come to learn that this is a far more complex industry than building houses and buildings — that it is absolutely filled with some of the most fascinating, intelligent, brilliant, gritty, resilient human beings on the planet. It's likely one of the most passionate industries, and the complexity of it I think adds to the passion of it. And for us it's so fascinating, because we can come at this and

36:44say, "Hey, we know a lot about change, we know a lot about people and executive development and organizational development." And nobody on planet Earth — ourselves really included — knows or understands how to solve the people and culture challenges that construction faces now, and will continue to face in the next decade or two decades, as innovation starts to create change in this industry in ways none of us can fathom right now. Which is why this conversation becomes so important, because as we continue to have this conversation with the brilliance and the grit and the

37:23resilience and the passion of the people who love this industry and have built this industry, it's going to be a collective solution. It's going to be a collective answer that emerges over time. And that's why we as this team and as Procore are so committed to continuing the conversation. Yeah, I'm sure Craig and Yasmeen want to chime in there. But I think you're right about the passion part — you'll see passion in this industry that you often don't see, maybe you know,

37:55it's something where — whether it's an architect who was able to put their name on a building, or it's a GC who just completed a complex project that means so much to the community, or it's the thousands of people that got their hands dirty and were part of building it block for block or piece for piece — and they talk about it for years to come, that they were part of that. And it's like you

38:24said — nobody has all the answers. It takes so many different kinds of people to come together. It's almost so daunting that when it does work, it's a little bit magical, because it can be so chaotic and dangerous. It's high risk, it's dangerous on the sites. And it's also the central point — it's like the conglomerate of so many different things: technology, creativity, blood, sweat, and tears, and hard work. Blue-collar — just so many

39:08different parts that come together, and somehow these jobs get done. It makes you wonder how you get through it sometimes. Then you look back. And I would just say, having experience from other industries before joining — I can say for sure that what people want out of their jobs is meaning, and it seems to me that this industry is incredibly well poised for that. A lot of industries — you can connect the dots with the mission and that kind of thing,

39:40but I have worked with leaders who look out the window of a really nice office and just sort of wonder what the last week was even about. And I think construction is incredibly connected to values. We just have to figure out a way to replicate those through the change, and then connect with the next generation of the labor force — which, as I understand it, they want meaning, they want to do things that matter. They want to — like you say —

40:03drive by a site and say, "You know, that's what my week was. This community is different because of this career." And so that's what gets me excited about this work — those good-hearted people are there, and we've got to figure out how to help those leaders attract more good-hearted people to this meaningful work. And I think it will be complex, but I see the makings of real potential there over the next years. Craig, back to Project Engage — most of the participants

40:33for Project Engage — would those be owners, or project managers, or stakeholders in general contracting companies making up a lot of those cohorts? Are some of them subcontractors? What's the criteria, and who are most of the individuals partaking in that culture consulting that goes on? Well, so for Project Engage, all folks need to be is in the industry and people leaders or emerging leaders — so we picture even somebody who's kind of on the cusp, all

41:08the way to executives. And in the big group they'll be learning from each other and from industry experts, and then they'll break into smaller pods where they have more like experience — similar industry and role — so that they can get even more specific, and then come back to the big group. So it kind of goes back and forth for specificity and perspective. I heard part of your question was about consulting — is that also part of your question? I might have worded that wrong, but yeah, we didn't get into we

41:36didn't get into that yet, did we? Right — Culture Consulting, which is kind of a third piece of the culture offering within Procore and your services to clients, trying to better the industry. Right, yeah. Well, I'd say — I think I heard another question in there, and it was around the audience for Project Engage. And, similar to Culture Academy, with Project Engage and Culture Consulting we actually see a really broad representation of the entire industry. Sometimes we have owners, sometimes we have general contractors,

42:09sometimes we have subcontractors, we also have tech partners, and we have association leaders. So both with Culture Academy and Project Engage, it's a very wide representation of the complexity of the industry that's usually present. Culture Consulting is really where we get into the customization and specificity for organizations that are really struggling through culture challenges, or really trying to solve difficult culture challenges. And in those cases we work directly with their executive team, helping them define: what is it that you're trying to solve, what kind

42:49of culture transformation feels important to help you drive your business forward? Craig mentioned earlier — we see a lot around generational changes, we see a lot around how the industry is changing. Sometimes it's also in connection to tech innovation. As we start to adopt more technological innovation, it changes the way we work, and by changing the way we work there's a human component to that that we actually need help solving. And so we work around all of those pieces specifically and in a

43:20customized way with organizations that are trying to address that. Yeah, and these are really practical things that companies are dealing with, right? Because you're dealing with the older generation who feel somewhat a little bit threatened by some of the new technology — they haven't grown up with it, doesn't come as easy. They're very experienced and they're a huge part of the industry and the companies that they're with, and they're like a cornerstone of the company a lot of times. But then there's all the new

43:44technology to keep up with, and that can be a little bit threatening for them. And then the younger generation just thinks differently. And that doesn't mean it's good or bad — it's just sometimes hard to relate to people that are 20 or 30 years older than you in the workforce. And sometimes there's a fear factor or a change factor, or people are maybe a little bit threatened. It's just people, right? And that's really what you're managing — the people and how they're

44:09dealing with all this change that's filtering through the industry and the company. What we know is coming in the next decade is there's going to be an entire generation leaving the construction industry — and that is the generation that really built the built world that we currently live in. Organizations find that they have so much knowledge, not only about the industry but about their business, about the region, about projects, about historical context. And then we have the younger generation — many times their

44:43grandchildren — entering into the workforce, who are digital natives. And the idea of running a construction business on technology is the only thing that makes sense to that generation. And being able to transfer that generational knowledge, institutional knowledge, and industrial knowledge as that change happens over the next 10 years is so important. We really believe that the executives in this industry who figure out how to make not only the knowledge transfer and the digital transfer, but the human transfer, are going to be the executives who are

45:22leading this industry forward. You can't have one or two of those — you need to take all three together, in tandem, through this pipeline of change. Yeah, and that's not an easy thing to do. There has to be somebody navigating that all the time. Yeah — it's worth it though. Absolutely, and we believe it's very possible. Yasmeen, do you have anything to add to that? What are you thinking about? Yeah, no, I think we're

45:57just really excited about the idea of continuing to be able to help the industry. I've fallen in love with it — it's an incredible group of people, they're so committed and passionate, like we've chatted about. And I think what we've talked about today, whether it be the Culture Academy, Project Engage, or Culture Consulting, there's something for everyone out there. And we're wanting to work with you. I think the variety really just shows our commitment to our vision and to supporting the industry in any way that

46:29we can. And we like that, because we're kind of in these earlier stages — we also can be so flexible and customize and work with our clients. And so there might be people listening to this wondering, "Well, am I really a great fit for this?" Just get on a conversation with us, get on a call, and let's see how we can help you and work with you. Because I think what I've found, at least, is there's not a lot of these types of services out there

46:54servicing the industry, and that's unfortunate. So we really want to do what we can, in any way, to help support this people side of it — that is proving to be such a critical, important component for every problem that the industry is facing, whether that be talent attraction, or retaining talent. We saw so many people leave the industry over the last few years and not return. We know what the pipeline's looking like and the demand right now. And the

47:27burnout that's taking place. So we really just care so much about doing what we can to support the industry. Thank you, Yasmeen — well said. Craig and Lisa, any final thoughts? I want to respect your time — we could probably talk about this obviously all day, this is what we do for a living. But I do want to be respectful of your time and just give each of you a chance to kind of recap if we missed anything.

47:55On behalf of Procore, what would you like to present to our listeners? Or if there's anything you wanted to add to what was said — just that, whatever business challenges a company is focusing on, the way we tend to think about it is: culture and leadership capacity can either be an accelerant — it can be the kind of thing that's sort of a superpower in addressing the challenges — or it can get in the way. And we've all been in both kinds of cultures

48:27before, where the culture almost feels like you're swimming upstream for change with those kinds of things, or the culture really invites change, celebrates change — that kind of thing. And so I think, sometimes if people haven't done this work, they feel like maybe it's one sort of thing. And I would really just want to underline that we have a body of knowledge, but it's really for those experts to implement it within their context, based on their values, to solve the problems that really matter most to them. It stays theirs. We just

48:55have something to offer in that conversation. Thanks, Craig. Lisa, any final words? I think final words would just be: the industry culture team here at Procore is 100% focused on partnering with and supporting executives, organizations, and leaders inside this industry who recognize that culture transformation is key to the forward advancement of this industry. And we would love to hear your stories, we would love to have conversations with you, we would love to continue to learn from you — which is what we do every time

49:34we have these conversations. Love that — thank you, Lisa. Yeah, Yasmeen, I think you kind of summed things up earlier there, but just in case you had one more thing you wanted to say. Nothing other than thank you so much for having us — this has been an awesome conversation, we really appreciate it, Dan. Yeah, it's been amazing. Craig, Yasmeen, and Lisa — thank you so much. I really look forward to our audience being able to tune into this, and just

50:01having another reminder of all the important pieces to culture, and how culture drives business and business drives culture. So thank you so much on behalf of the Atlantic Construction Podcast and our valued partner in Procore. Cheers, everyone.