From Sweeping Floors to Director of Construction: Two RCS Alumni Launch PMco During COVID | Andrew Doucet & Craig Duininck

0:03Welcome back to the Atlantic Construction Podcast. Today we're joined by Andrew Doucet and Craig Duininck of PMco. In this episode we touch on Craig and Andrew's background, their experience in the industry, and how they started and managed a company during a global pandemic. Hope you enjoy the episode. All right, welcome back to the Atlantic Construction Podcast. Super excited to have our guests on here today. We have Andrew Doucet — Andrew, thanks for being here. Thanks for having us, Dan. And Craig Duininck, thanks for being here, Craig. Thank you. Well, I'm going to start with some bios.

0:32To introduce the guys here: Andrew Doucet is a graduate of a university construction leadership program and Gold Seal certified. Andrew also has his professional Gold Seal certificate, demonstrating his commitment to professional development, and has over 15 years of industry experience. On to Craig — Craig is a graduate of StFX University with an executive certificate in real estate development as well as an honours degree. Craig has worked from Winnipeg to Halifax in his real estate career and now oversees property management for PMco. As you see here, guys, we're going to get into PMco a little bit later.

1:19But to start today's show, we have a really interesting theme here. We're going to focus more on how these guys got where they're at, and then we'll get into a little bit of their new venture — which ironically they started during COVID, so that's definitely something that our guests and audience is going to want to hear. So Andrew, why don't you kick us off? I'm a gentleman, so I'm going to — I'm actually going to let Craig go first. Oh yeah, Craig makes me look bad. I'm

1:53going to let Craig go first. I just want to make it clear too — it says graduate from Dal in my bio, that was about a 10-week course, so I just want to make that clear to the listeners. I'm not a Dalhousie alumni. I do have a nice plaque and I spent some time there. It sounds good — it definitely sounds good. But yeah, I think I'll let Craig — who's a co-founder of our group here, PMco, and basically the guy who runs it —

2:21the day-to-day. I'll be honest, I usually take a day a week with the team and try to put as much knowledge as I can, but Craig's kind of the — he's the boots on the ground, he's whatever it takes. So I'll let you go first, Craig, and give us a little background of the little pitbull, as we call him. Yeah, we have — I mean, comparing Andrew and I, we come from a different background for sure. Yeah. I'm actually from the US. I'm from —

2:51I moved to Ontario when I was 15, played five years in the Ontario Hockey League, and after that it was kind of a decision that you make when you're at that stage in your life as a young hockey player — if you want to try to make pro, or if you want to focus on education. I was never really very good, so I figured instead of trying to battle the East Coast League or other junior leagues, that education is probably the best

3:17route for me, and I do think it was the right decision looking back. Good on you, man. Yeah. After that I moved out to Nova Scotia, probably 21 or 22 years old, and I went to StFX, did four years out there, and really fell in love with being out here — the vibe of Nova Scotia. And when you get to meet people, everyone always jokes about Nova Scotians knowing everyone, and you don't really see it until you come out here and you get to talking to people and you

3:51get to networking. And it's hard to leave when you start building a network, because the thought goes — where do you go, what do you do next if you have to go somewhere else and start a new group, a new network of business and friends and everything? Yeah, I hear that, man. And so, again, after that I got my degree and then didn't know if I wanted to move back home, back to the US where all my family is — I guess friends are now mostly out

4:14here but where my family is and everything. So ended up meeting a couple of good people out here, stuck around, got a job, and here we are. Yeah, that's great, man. Okay, you've got to tell us a little bit — yeah, we should dig more into the construction side of things with the history, because we're going to contrast the themes of where you guys both came from. Is that what we were going for? So what do you want to know? I want to

4:42know — I want to know you. So you went, you played hockey, then you went to StFX, and then what brought you to working in Halifax and your first opportunity? And how did you make that decision — how did you make that decision that okay, this is going to be my focus, and this is now where my career is going to go? From it started with hockey and now you're going to go into your professional learning, your schools, learning what you did through academics —

5:12but then you're in the construction industry right now, because it's a different path, and I think it'd be interesting for Dan's listeners to hear that side of it. Yeah, and I think — depending on who you talk to, it might be a different story — but I found the most I got out of university, I had an unbelievable experience and everything was fantastic about StFX, but again, going back to the network, it's the people that you meet. In my last year there, it was probably

5:40around February — this time of the year, in my graduating year — I met my mentor, or if we want to name names, Doug Doucet, the owner of RCS Construction. And I met with him, and it was actually through the award that we were talking about. Just to clarify: Doug is someone who was instrumental in both your journeys career-wise? Very much, yeah. Okay, very much so. Yes. So I met with Doug probably in February, and he sits on a board at the Sobeys

6:09Foundation, and we got to talking and I told him about my passion for real estate. I had worked in Winnipeg the year before for a condo multi-res — you mentioned Sobeys, you won an award, right? You won the Sobeys Award? Yes I did. Tell us a little bit about that. It's a good shout-out for you. Yeah, thank you. In my last year I won the Sobeys Award for business entrepreneurship and business —

6:38What it is — it's an award given to eight Atlantic Canadian business students or entrepreneurial-minded students. It's quite the application process and you have to show entrepreneurial future and aspirations and things, while also showing commitment to your community, volunteer work, and success in the classroom. What I like about the award is success in the classroom is probably the last thing that they look at, because you can be a very average student but you're driven — you're working two jobs, you're doing whatever it takes to

7:12put yourself through school and you're also giving back to the community, and that's what the award is all about. I was very fortunate to win that award in my last year, and that's where I met Doug. And when I met Doug I kind of told him: I'm doing this, I'm doing that, I don't know if I'm going to go back to the US, I don't know if I'm going to go to Toronto, maybe I want to work for a bigger company, but real estate at the end of the day is what I

7:38want to be in. What I love about real estate is it can be — you can be a developer, you can be a leasing agent, there are so many different things that you can be, even in construction. Yeah, yeah, anything. But I told him that was my passion, and we kind of hit it off then, and he said whatever you decide to do, keep in touch. And so I graduated three or four months later and called him — and ever since

8:01February we stayed in touch, and he offered me — he said, I don't have a role for you, but come in, we're gonna figure it out. It's so great to see someone who's had so much success still have the time to say, hey, give me a call, you know? Like, that's so important. Mentorship and having the right people around you — I see that a lot in the construction community. The networking here and the community here is so welcoming, and like, that's so important. Like, Doug

8:26would have had a huge impact on you at that time. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Doug. Yeah. So first — I've got to — so now I guess we should let Andrew — hold on, no joke, because I'm with RCS Construction as well, and I've been there for 15 years and still there. And yeah, there was no position for Craig, but Doug knew that this guy was a pitbull — he was different than most, and he was going to help RCS become

8:57his development arm, come successful. So he just wanted to give him a shot. And the thing we have in common — Craig and I — is Doug also gave me my first shot. So I'll kind of go through my background, which is quite different from where you start. Obviously coming from a different area. Yeah, a little more blue-collar starting out. This guy here, a little more blue-collar. I played hockey as well — no Memorial Cups for me. No Memorial Cup —

9:25so we touched on that yet — that you were at the Memorial Cup, was it 2009? 2009–10, yeah. Well, you were a forward — what's your plus-minus? I think it was okay, and the only reason it's okay to talk about is, right, it's been 10 years, we're in Halifax, exactly. If you're a Windsor Spitfire — hey, they've had their — they've had their run. But I played for the Windsor Spitfires back in the day, and we

9:52had a really good team — a couple of guys like Taylor Hall, Ryan Ellis, Zach Kassian — really very talented players. And the Memorial Cup that year, I think we won like 8–1, 8–2 — we were just blowing everybody out. It was a fun part of it. I was an underage 16-year-old kid, no good, but I got to play all the games because we were up seven goals every time. Yeah, I think we won the final 9–1. That's awesome. It was fun, guys — it makes it kind

10:25of boring. I'll jump in now. Let's let Andrew talk. Let me talk now. I thought my story was going to be exciting, but then you throw in the Memorial Cup champion — but I'll just set him up: he's got the X-ring over here, and he's got the Memorial Cup at home. So not bad. So yeah, my story is definitely a bit different. So when I was finishing high school, like probably most high school kids, I didn't really have a clue what I was going to do.

10:55And I ended up — which is probably another classic tale — I wanted to live in Halifax. I knew that from an early age. I was up here for a hockey school, figuring out that hockey was not going to be a full-time job — that was 100% sure. So I'm sitting on the stairs of Pizza Corner with my uncle, and it's — yeah, this is — I was like 12 years old, so we're not talking the typical 2–3 a.m. So I'm sitting on the big stairs that

11:25don't even exist there anymore, and I'm just seeing the hustle and bustle of the city on a Friday afternoon and I was like, I'm going to be here. I don't know how, I don't know what I'm going to do. So pushing forward, I get to grade 12, I don't really know what my focus is going to be. I know I like cooking breakfast sandwiches, so I'm like, why not be a chef? I wish I had taken culinary. Yeah,

11:52I can't cook. So I came up here, I was living in my cousin's basement in Cole Harbour, I was biking to the Akerley campus, and I thought I was going to be a chef. I lasted about two and a half weeks — not much of a quitter usually, but I knew pretty quickly it wasn't going to be for me. So once I figured that out, I kind of didn't really know what I was going to do, and I was actually — bringing it back to

12:19Doug — I was actually cutting Doug's lawn every Sunday to make a couple of bucks while I was in community college. And he's building his new office, which is the RCS office out in Bedford, and he's like, come on man, just come for a few days, whatever — I'll pay you cash. I don't know if I should say that out loud, but — I'll pay you cash, and just see if you like it. We'll — all you've got to do is sweep floors and —

12:48I was like, I don't know. I literally the day before had taken an application in to Old Navy. I'd seen them with their headphones on and I was like, I could do that — you can sell clothes like no one's business. So the first time he asked, I was kind of like, nah, I don't think so. Construction — I'd never really thought about it that much. Yeah, I used to build forts and build things out of boxes and stuff like that, but I was like, I don't think construction's for me.

13:15Sure enough, Doug again calls me and he's — we're over in Cole Harbour, we're going to dinner — think about it again, just come on over. I need someone for a week anyways, we're behind schedule. I need someone for a week. So I'm like, all right, I'm working for him already cutting the grass — let's go try this out. So the first job I went to was our office that we're in right now. Yeah. So that was 15 years ago, and probably the first half week I was

13:42like, yeah, this is what I want to do — and not just to be a labourer sweeping floors, but to go on the other job sites and watch how the supers interacted with the sub-trades, watch how the RCS PM came in with the client, walked the site. And then I got a real hunger for it — got the fever. I wanted to be a project manager. I was like, that is what I want to be, and I want to do it sooner than later. As

14:08my friends know, the patience aren't the best for me. But Doug was pretty quick, and Doug wasn't going to hand anything to anybody — he was going to give people opportunities, and like now what I say to everybody: you take that opportunity and run with it. So after I started on the different job sites, I started working my way up. I was in my construction manager's office like every day — give me more responsibility, whatever it takes — and then I moved myself up to a lead

14:41hand. And then I was doing some forming. The biggest thing I say to other people coming up now is: don't say no, take every opportunity you can. So I would do the weekend shift, I'd do the holiday, just to get to that lead hand, to earn tiny responsibilities. And then I started doing a foreman job on night shifts for RCS, and we were doing like three at a time, so I was kind of overseeing all that. And then as I was going up, I didn't have the schooling or any of

15:11the background, so I started taking a lot of Construction Association of Nova Scotia courses — they're great. Every single course I possibly could, I took: construction 101, management, site safety. I was taking them and adding them all up before I think Gold Seal was even a thing. So I had a bunch of these courses, and then the opportunity came with RCS that as RCS continued to grow, they needed a small jobs division. So they were going to put out for a small jobs coordinator.

15:41So I went in for that role, and it was originally supposed to be 80% on site and 20% in the office, and it quickly turned into the other way — 80/20 the other way. And then I started engaging other foremen and supers and started shifting the small jobs division into custom projects, because I was getting a lot of first-time business owners and small restaurants. So people were kind of getting taken aback by — why am I dealing with a small jobs division? This is my life savings.

16:17I shifted it — I did kind of a whole business plan on why we should call it the custom projects division. One of our senior project managers who now builds $10 million, $15 million dollar projects started there, and it kind of nurtured new project managers and project coordinators and foremen all through the ranks. And it was kind of — you ate what you killed, right? So you really had to be estimating, managing, supervising — whatever — wearing so many different hats at the same time, a bunch of different

16:49hats. I would never change it for a second, because it gave me — in a way, definitely part of the fun — and it gave me a lot of knowledge of every aspect of it. So once I kind of grew that division, I started getting offers to do larger jobs from those clients that first started out with smaller projects. So I started — just down the street here — the first larger job I did was probably Pizza GoGo, and I basically designed that on the back of a

17:19napkin, and we figured it out, and it turned into a beautiful space. And then after that, I've gone on to build car dealerships, restaurants like El Mercado, offices — you name it, I've probably done it. And now with my role at RCS, I'm Director of Construction. And I ended up getting my Gold Seal — I got my Gold Seal probably five years ago. You referred to that earlier, and you were saying, you know, it's not like a Dalhousie engineering degree, but it was a 10-week course — like, that's pretty respected, I mean, that's a very, very respected — let me rephrase that — in the industry, right? So that's 10 weeks over the course of maybe a year, right? You're picking away at it with other professionals too, right? Like, there were other business owners, there were other directors in that course. Very industry-related, very industry-related. And we were the inaugural group that were in it, so there was about 10 of us. But that just

17:50helped me get those points towards the Gold Seal, and then I ended up writing my Gold Seal later on. Did your old CANS courses that you took over the years — did they count once Gold Seal came into place, or were they not? Every CANS course I took over those years all counted. I want to shout that out to our listeners — anyone who's out there thinking about joining CANS or thinking about being a member: these courses they put on are very relevant, and

18:17anything from working in health care projects to fire-stopping, any specialty stuff, safety — they do a great job. 100%, yeah. They do a fantastic job, and it was professional — it's beyond professional now with their interactive stations and how they pivoted through COVID, doing it all via Zoom. But even back then everything was professional and first class. But yeah, that all helped with the Gold Seal, and then the Gold Seal is recognized for the Canadian construction industry — so, so

18:42it's recognized throughout the whole country, and then it gives you confidence too. No question. It definitely — it put a stamp on it. Because I always — I always felt, yeah, the Gold Seal definitely put a stamp on it for me, because I was always concerned with not having the schooling background and just having boots-on-the-ground background, that I wouldn't be taken seriously. So just having those letters, and then seven years later to have the professional stamp as well, was a surprise and another great

19:14milestone. Yeah, another great milestone for my career, for sure. I think that's a great entry point to a really interesting topic, because part of the theme today with PMco — your new endeavour with the two of you being partners — you guys come from really different backgrounds. Andrew mentions a little bit of self-consciousness, you know, about coming from only a blue-collar background, not having certain degrees under your belt or certain credentials after your name,

19:50but yet you also talked about starting out in small jobs for a long time. And small jobs in construction — I don't think there's a better place to come out of. I mean, that can be mayhem, and even harder than working on the major projects where there's more structure and autonomy. Right? But you have to figure everything out on the smaller jobs. 110%. So that's an interesting point that you made — that you came from the small jobs side — because you don't have the spec book to go back to, you

20:24don't have all the information and the drawings, right? With the larger projects, very cumbersome — and also nothing in this industry is easy, which we all know, we're all feeling it right now. But just on the larger projects, with more structure, if you're organized and you do what you say you're going to do, you can be successful at it. And you have more teammates within your own company and business working on those projects. But yeah, I know about large projects, because we're here to

20:49talk about PMco. That's right. So I was leaving — PM — that's right, PMco! But first, let's touch on one more thing before PMco. I know you guys want to get to that, and we will. But let's think about the youth, the young people out there tuning in to the Atlantic Construction Podcast, thinking about what they want to do after grade 12. You know, a lot of people are trades-driven, but like we were talking about before we went on air, the

21:18construction industry is so vast now — there are so many different players. You guys come from two different backgrounds: Craig, your university real estate background and all that entails; Andrew on the blue-collar side. But what would you guys say to 17- to 20-year-olds that are listening right now, who maybe aren't thinking about going into the trades — plumbing, carpentry, all those things — but wanting to be project managers? And

21:47what's it like out there? Because it's fast-paced, it's exciting, but it's stressful — you've got to make decisions on the fly, you've got to be good with people and good with construction details and drawings. So just speak a little bit to that from both your different backgrounds, for the youth. Yeah. I know Andrew wants to talk about this one. But I wanted to say about your comment about being intimidated not having the education — I've found, not coming from a

22:17construction background — I come from a family of commercial tire shops, so I grew up working in the shops on 18-wheelers and things, not overly long, occasional summers in between school. But coming into the construction industry after having a degree — I mean, I did fine in school — I was more intimidated coming onto the sites, working with people that I didn't know their credentials, but I know that they've been in the industry. So I was intimidated because I know I

22:43haven't started from the ground up and I haven't been on a construction site, so I don't know everything that goes into construction. So it's kind of interesting — from one side you think that people look differently upon you because you don't have the education background. Well, and that's part of the beauty of the construction industry in Atlantic Canada: you've got a real unique enmeshment of white-collar and blue-collar, and one doesn't happen without the other — they're both just as important as

23:16the other. But everybody's kind of self-conscious — over here, who hasn't been doing foundations for 20 years, or framing walls, or whatnot. But without — you know, everybody needs to find a way to work together, and everyone's very proud of the background they have and their unique knowledge. Yeah, and definitely I think everyone brings a different component to a project. We're not going to talk about major projects, but on smaller projects especially, everyone kind of brings a different

23:45piece of value into a project — you might look at it a little different way, or you might have a different way to approach a project. And if you've been in the industry for 20 years — hate to say it — but there are a lot of people that have done the same thing and acted the same way for as long as they've been in the industry, instead of innovating and looking at projects a different way. So with PMco, we focused early on — we haven't even been established

24:13for a year yet, but early on our strategy was to use different software and different technologies so that when we grow, we're going to be able to scale quickly, and we're going to have an advantage over other competitors because we're not stuck in old ways. We're doing things from the ground up, building it exactly how we want to see it. Living proof. So yeah — the biggest thing, the first thing I would say is: all education is great, whether you're going to StFX,

24:37taking business, or taking the trades. If we're speaking to the kids — the girls and boys coming out of high school — you don't have to rush. Figure out what you want to do. If you have some interest in construction, work a summer. Work a summer job, get on as a labourer, be a sponge, take it all in, and see every aspect of it. We really got to kill the narrative that it's not business or professional, because everybody on the construction site —

25:11nine times out of ten, the front-facing site managers are dealing with the liability of safety, they're dealing with change orders, they're dealing with a schedule and critical path that they have to stay focused on. So they're professionals. The people on the site and us in the office are professionals. It's got to be thrown away — this idea that it's all just blue-collar, we put our tool belt on and things just happen. There are lots of different dynamics to it. But what I would say

25:44first is: take your time, figure out what you want to do. If you want to go down the education route — which I would suggest all day long — and learn business, but you want to end up in the construction zone, be ready: when you go through four years of university or college, you might have to start at a lower level. You might have to start as a labourer. But then you can quickly work your way up. You're living proof of that — look how far

26:13you've come from a labourer 15 years ago. No question. And not just me — because people know that I'm related to Doug — but it's all about: if you get an opportunity, it's what you do with it. There are no ceilings. You just have to get on that site, become a sponge, figure out what you want to do, ask questions, listen, take it all in. Watch how different people interact with the client, with the sub-trades, with

26:39the engineers, with the architects — because you might want to go into a sub-trade role, you might want to go into an architectural role, you might want to be a project manager, you might just want to be a super and steer that ship from the boots-on-the-ground standpoint. So the options are endless. And then when you get that opportunity, it's right back on you, kid, on what you want to do with it. I can speak for PMco, I can speak for

27:06RCS — I can speak for Mill-Right — once you have the opportunity, there's no ceiling. So that'd be the biggest thing for younger people. And then for young professionals who went through college or university and are kind of hitting a wall — this isn't really what I want to do — well, the option's there for you as well. A lot of these construction programs through NSCC or continuing education — New Brunswick has a great community college, Holland College has

27:34programs there — these programs are all like two years, right? So you're another shift into what you really want to do, and it never hurts to have a business degree on the side. I mean, that's going to teach you communication skills — like even just writing proper emails, being able to word things correctly. Getting all that — you're dealing with architects on the site and the super one day, and the next day it's a bunch of plumbers and electricians. You know, it's such a vast — so many

28:09different players to pull together. Yeah, 100%. I heard a good quote the other day — and I don't want to take a quote from a potential future guest on your show — but entrepreneurs love business; they might not necessarily love their industry. We're lucky because we do love our business, or I do at least. But if you're an entrepreneur coming through high school and college, you might not know what you want to do yet, but you know that you want to be

28:35customer-facing, you want to have your own business — dive into something. Like construction — as you mentioned before, construction's such a great industry because you can be on the development side, you can be on the smaller construction side, the big major projects that Andrew's done before. There's so much opportunity there that if you get your foot in the door, you might love it, and you might find that you love being a project manager, you want to be a company owner. And if you want to get a trade and

29:03start your own business, there's tons of opportunity. You see estimators — they know the project and they know the specs and everything — then they turn into project managers at some point, and then go back again. Or some of them start their own business. So everybody's dipping into all the different roles. But let's get into PMco a little bit, because I know you guys started this business during — it's only been under a year — and you know, obviously a trying time.

29:34I think a lot of listeners would be interested in what that was like — to start a new endeavour during COVID. Obviously it took a lot of courage; I'm sure you were planning things prior to that. But it's a pretty unique business model as well. I know you guys could probably explain it better than me, but you're kind of a one-stop shop for someone looking for a new location in a building, and you kind of have a full package service.

30:05I think a lot of listeners would be interested in what that was like — to start a new endeavour during COVID. Obviously it took a lot of courage. I'm sure you were planning things prior to that, but it's a pretty unique business model as well. I know you guys could probably explain it better than me, but you're kind of a one-stop shop for someone looking for a new location in a building, and you kind of have a full package service: you have the real estate side with you, Craig, and then the construction with Andrew, and you kind of combine everything from point A right through to leasing and project management, on to maintenance of the building if necessary. So I think it's really unique and maybe just — yeah, talk a little bit about the company, some of the challenges, and if there's anyone listening out there that could use your services, who's an ideal client? Yeah,

30:30of course. Yeah, PMco has been in the works over a year now — we got up and running in August of 2020, but it was in the works before. And we really noticed a shift when COVID hit. There were a lot of big projects — a lot of tenants that I was dealing with — a lot of part of my job before PMco was talking to retailers and other companies out of Toronto or some of the bigger markets around Canada, and especially if they're not in

30:57Atlantic Canada yet: when are they coming, what's the plan? And I noticed a lot of them — if they had locations here — instead of opening new locations, they were looking to renovate, put a little bit of money in, staying where they are, adapt to COVID. And instead of doing a full new build, it would be a smaller renovation. And we started noticing the shift and thought it would be a perfect time to roll out PMco's small jobs construction side. But on top of that, we also do

31:26like you said — the one-stop shop. We do the full property management, we do leasing, we do service work. So we touch on a lot of the pieces where we consider ourselves a one-stop shop. Because if you're our ideal client, you can come to us if you're looking for either a new location or your first location — we can find you a space. If we can't put you in a building that we already manage, we can find a space for you, and then I'm

31:54still your contact. Craig and I are working together. If we find you a perfect space and now you have to do construction — you have to do a little fit-out — we're your people. We can get you drawings, we can price it up for you, we can work with the landlord, we can do whatever you need to do. If you're a new company and you don't have that background with construction, we have that background here. Yeah, that's what it sounds like. So if you're a business owner out there

32:20who's going to have some kind of building asset, then you guys are the ones. If you want to just leave the construction totally up to someone else — yeah. The biggest thing I try to say to potential clients at all times: let us, the construction specialists, focus on your build so you can continue to focus on growing your business. I wish that would always happen. Let us, the construction experts, focus on the build so you can continue growing your business. You

32:45focus on your business, and we'll bring you into the loop as much as you need to be — at a high level, or if you need a day-to-day update on what progress is being made. We know what we're doing, we have the background, we specialize in it, and we're looking out for your best interests — and the end user's best interests, and your customers' best interests. It's really forward-thinking too, to bundle those services and make a one-stop shop. You know, that's

33:11You focus on your business, and we'll bring you into the loop as much as you need to be — at a high level, or if you need a day-to-day update on what progress is being made. We know what we're doing, we have the background, we specialize in it, and we're looking out for your best interests and the end user's best interests, and your customers' best interests. It's really forward-thinking too, to bundle those services and make a one-stop shop. You know, that's

33:39definitely something that's going to help a lot of people in so many different ways. Yeah. And then on the — that's a lot of the construction side. On the management side is where I also like to focus. I look at it in two different silos or divisions of the company. On the real estate side of things, our ideal client is a developer or a business owner — someone that

34:05has invested in real estate. And now we can be that one-stop shop — coming at it from the other direction. You can hire us to manage your property, work with your tenants, we collect rent, do all the accounting, we manage all your service work. If you want to live down in Florida and not worry about your property, that's why you bring us in. And on top of that, when a vacancy comes up in your building — which we try not to ever let happen — but it

34:31does happen — we go out, we can find that tenant. Now we're looking at the other side of it: we can find that tenant, we can work with them on the construction side and build their space. So there's not always, but there's that disconnect of the landlord and the contractor and the tenant. We're now the one contact — the tenant is dealing with us on the leasing side, and the landlord, the developer, is dealing with us on the service side. Everything — so everyone has that one contact.

34:58Yeah, and you've got all the big front-end stuff. And maintenance is something too that I wouldn't overlook if I was a business owner — because the last thing you want is a bunch of things leaking through your roof when you're away, or this and that, and just someone managing that building like it's a living thing that has to be attended to. Yeah. What Andrew said is — our clients that we work with and our future clients are great at running their business.

35:22They might be, but they might not be great at construction or maintenance and things. And you see very often that they like to try to manage the maintenance themselves, or manage the small construction projects themselves — when in reality, they should or can be making money doing what they're really good at, and then hand it off to us. They should have their mental energy somewhere else. Yeah. And you have our phone number in your phone, and anything happens — it's a text, it's a call, it's an email. Hey, we're having an issue, come check it — we're there.

35:48So a few of the properties we're looking after now — why don't you give us some insight on that? I'll give you one good example. We're working on a deal right now and I think it sums up PMco really well. We have a new business — we have two partners, one coming out of school, one coming out of Ontario, looking to open a new practice. We have a building out in Hammonds

36:13Plains, and I thought it was a perfect opportunity to bring them in. We have a vacancy there, and we're bringing them in with the leasing expertise — kind of working from the landlord perspective as well as the tenant perspective. They're new to leasing, so they originally reached out to me: they were looking at a different building and they just wanted a little insight, a little help, let us know if this all makes sense. So I sat down, worked with them, they figured out it wasn't the best

36:42opportunity. So I brought them over to another building — they really like it. We're working together with the landlord now, they're getting us to price the construction work. So we did up drawings, we're doing up estimates, and we're going to work with the landlord to do all of the landlord construction as well as the tenant construction. And then hopefully once we get them in there, if they have any issues, they know who — I'm still there, one contact. They can contact me for whatever they need, and same with the landlord, we're ongoing

37:06management there. So whatever they need, I'm still the one contact. And so that's ideal — you're hitting all the points of your services there. But you'll also help somebody out with just maintenance, or just leasing, or whatever their specific needs will be, right? Yeah. We have different contracts — I think we've touched on every point that we do, but that's not the only thing we do. We can tailor our contracts to whatever you need. If you only need maintenance, we have a

37:31maintenance contract perfect for you. You can use us wherever — sign a maintenance contract with us, we'll give you a little bit of a discount and look after everything. With leasing, we have developers that like to do their own maintenance but don't like to do their own leasing, so you can hire us just to do the leasing part of it. So we're going to cater to whatever their specific needs are. Whatever you need, we're catering to whatever our clients or potential clients need, and

37:57we're not stepping on anyone's toes. Like, we're not trying to be the big developer, we're not trying to take anyone's property management away, but we're trying to be there as an assist. We're trying to do it for some of our clients now and be their sole property managers — for sure, and that's a goal — but we're not here to step on other people's toes. Yeah, it sounds like you've got a real good white space there, a real niche,

38:20where no one else is really doing exactly what you're doing, right? Yeah, I think we're pretty unique. And we used a good word there — yeah. Like we mentioned, we've only been established for about six months now, and we've got a pretty solid list of clients that we've already built relationships with. And our goal is never one project — it's not get in the door and do one little fit-up and

38:48we're out. It's the next one. Our ideal client on the construction side is someone that's constantly growing, innovating, new designs, something that's going to have multiple locations — that we can help every step of the way. Because then we touch on it — they're looking for a new location, and if we have that relationship, they know that we're in the industry of finding them a new location, right? So you just make the first point of contact, help them out, and then the doors can

39:14start opening. Just take the journey with each client, really. Yeah. Very cool. Absolutely. Anything else you guys want to touch on for PMco? Anything else that you might have missed, or that you're kind of thinking of right now — something you'll wish you'd said 10 minutes after you leave? I'm sure there will be, but no. I think we kind of touched on everything. We're very happy with how we started — we're about six months in, right,

39:40we've got a new hire starting up — I'm not sure when this airs, so I'm not going to say dates — but he's probably a great hire right now, which is great. So we have a great team around us, and we're looking forward to continuing to grow, meet new clients, and be a part of the Atlantic Canada construction industry. Yeah, that's amazing, guys. Kudos to you guys — not everybody can pull that off during a global pandemic, so

40:07that obviously took a lot of talent, skill, and a lot of courage too. So that's amazing. You know, you're crazy busy with all your business endeavours — with RCS and PMco and Mill-Right and everything — but you do a lot of community stuff too. You were on the board with CANS, I think, and you're connected with the Mental Health Foundation of Nova Scotia and a few other things. You want to just give us a little background there? Yeah, definitely. I was on the developing —

40:34I was the chair of Developing Executives with CANS, which was a great experience — first class, professional, a lot of great opportunities, and great ways to network with other younger and developing executives. And then I've been on the mental health board — I'm coming up to my fourth year. I'm actually co-chair this year, so I get very involved with the fundraising. I have a background with the IWK — with the Great Big Dig, I was part of that for eight years — so I have a real passion for

41:11giving back. Such a great event, such a great event — it's amazing how that comes together. No question. And so is Festival of Trees — and a different stage of mine, countless things. No question. But you know, I love giving back to Halifax, I love giving back to Atlantic Canada, I love being a part of the mental health — mental health is very close to me in some personal stuff — and I love being a part of that board, and I love being boots on the ground when the

41:40events come up, whether it's getting auction items or whatever it is. And then when it comes to the board stuff — with the governance and the financial and the budgets and making decisions — I love being a part of that. So yeah, it's always great to give back, and it's great to be a part of this Atlantic Canadian community — because everyone's — I love the saying: if one of us goes to war, we all go to war. Because I think Nova Scotians, New Brunswickers, PEI islanders, everybody — not to mention

42:08my hometown, Cape Breton — is right there. So we're all united. For anybody that doesn't know, Andrew and I are both from Prince Edward Island, so we're both Islanders. There you go. So right there. But no, this Atlantic Canadian community is something special to be a part of, and any chance you can give back, it's a great feeling to be a part of that. Yeah, that's awesome, Andrew. It's great to see, and I have tremendous respect for someone who's as busy as you are and

42:37has been able to work so hard and be successful, and to give back in those different arenas. So that's awesome, man. Yeah. Before we get out of here, where can people find you guys online? You can find us on Instagram — our Instagram is @pmcoinc, that's P-M-C-O-I-N-C — and we post a lot of our progress pictures, different clients, and we do client portfolios as well as employee profiles on there. Learn a little bit more about us there,

43:07and on LinkedIn: PMco Incorporated — more professional things of what we're doing, events that we're at, and again, we'll do kind of final pictures of construction projects that we're on, and properties and leasing that we have available. You can also find everything on our website, pm-co.ca, and there you can see any leasing availabilities or contact information or anything on there. Cool. Andrew, anything to add? I think Craig pretty much — Craig got a good partner there.

43:39Sealed the deal, man. Great partner — absolutely. How to pick a good business partner — excited for the future. Awesome, guys. Well listen, thanks — it's been great having Craig and Andrew on the Atlantic Construction Podcast, and great having PMco on. I think we touched on a lot of things, hoping that our listeners — a lot of the youth out there — will connect with you guys' different backgrounds and different stories. And again, you know, the fact that you guys were able to pull this off and

44:05get PMco off the ground during a global pandemic — I think that deserves a lot of credit. So great job, guys. Thank you, thanks for having us. Yeah, man. Thanks a lot. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the Atlantic Construction Podcast. Be sure to follow us on any podcast platform you use. You can also find us on LinkedIn and Instagram at Atlantic Construction. Be sure to send us a comment or a review — we'd love to engage with you.