Why Black Windows Crack & Fade — and the Laminate Fix | Cornerstone's Kate Lindsay on Windows for Atlantic Canada

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1:06forward to having them back on the podcast in the near future. Okay, welcome back to the Atlantic Construction Podcast. Very pleased to have our guest today, Kate Lindsay, architectural lead. Kate's flown in from Toronto this week and it's great to have her with us representing Cornerstone Building Brands. Cornerstone is North America's largest window and door manufacturer — fenestration — with over 100 locations across North America and over 30 different brands. So lots to chat about. Thanks, Kate, for joining us today. Thank you for having me.

1:42This is not your first time to Halifax — I think you were saying you were here a few months ago? I have been once before, yeah, a few months ago. Nicer weather today. So I did the tall ship cruise last night. Oh nice, good for you. How was that? It was good but they didn't put the sails in, unfortunately. Yeah, yeah, beautiful views though, so it's really nice. And you're from the UK? I am indeed, yes. I'm English, as people will I'm sure assume from my accent. Yeah, maybe, as usual.

2:13You could give us a little background of yourself. I know University of Manchester was part of your education and you grew up in the window and door world. I did, yes. So my parents have a window company — they started that in the mid-'80s in England. They represented the largest German window manufacturer, so slightly different to the products that we have here. Yes, WERU. Yes. So they were founded in 1843, so really well-established company and a really nice

2:56product. So I started working in the family business, and I think lots of people will agree with me that once you're in the window industry it's very hard to get out of. So yeah, I just love it. I love dealing with architects and, you know, specifications of products, and then also the homeowners themselves — to see the final results when they have their windows replaced or if they're building their new home. To be part of that is, yeah, it's really nice. So

3:27I moved over to Canada in December 2020, so a COVID immigrant. And I was working, when I first came here, for an Austrian window manufacturer — they had a branch in Toronto. And I found that there was some pushback where people liked to buy a Canadian-made product, and also maybe liked the idea of high-performing European windows but not necessarily the price point, right. So I was recruited by Cornerstone in March of last year, and fantastic move for me — it's a great company to work for.

4:07As you say, lots of different brands within the company. So I represent the Canadian window brands that we have, so that would be North Star Windows and Doors and also Ply Gem Windows and Doors as well. And so for here locally in Atlantic Canada, North Star would be kind of one of the brands, as you said, and Mitten — there are some Mitten locations in Dartmouth, a couple in New Brunswick. So these are associated? Yes, they are. So Mitten has quite a big presence in Atlantic Canada, so for their

4:43siding division. So Cornerstone was started in 2018 — it was a merger of various different companies and Mitten came on board, and that's helped grow the window business because we can use the distribution network that they have. So where they have the three depots in Atlantic Canada, they will be growing their business by having more focus on windows as well, which I think is great for whether it be the homeowner or the builder — being able to get the entire exterior building envelope from one

5:19company. So they can get their siding and the windows all from one place. And further to that, under the Cornerstone umbrella, there's storm products, metal roofing, metal siding — everything on the building envelope. Yeah, we cover everything that you need. Yeah. So for today, we'll definitely focus on North Star and Ply Gem in the window and entry door fenestration products. And you were saying before, you know, you grew up in the

5:55industry in the UK, COVID immigrant. So for you, obviously there's a long history here, lots of experience with the products, and you're obviously an architectural lead. So is building science part of it — kind of as much a level of passion for you as the front-facing the clients? Seeing whether it's a homeowner or a developer — you mentioned meeting with certain developers here in Halifax recently on some heritage property projects.

6:30So you have a lot of different relationships to manage there. I do, yes. One of the focuses of Cornerstone is to do that kind of upstream selling — to go into the architects and be specified from early stages in the projects. I think a lot of people don't realize how important the window is in the construction of a building, and ensuring that you meet the codes and you've got the water tightness and air

7:01tightness correct. So they'll leave it too late to make a decision on their windows — where we want to change that to being at the early stages, so effectively the apertures can be designed around to suit the windows. And with that we can work with energy modelers, so that if you're building, say, an eco home, we can give detailed technical information on all of the energy efficiency specs. So I'm assuming that's more of an issue on the residential side, whereas in commercial, where there's an

7:30architect involved in the design phase, you're usually involved upstream at that point? Sometimes, yeah. No, for sure. Anything building envelope now is so important with the different climates and green building efforts. We're in an environment now where these are more top of mind than they maybe were — not so much for homeowners, right? It's not something that they necessarily deal with every day. So for locally here, we'll

8:06touch on — just for context, for Cornerstone Building Brands, before we start to discuss more things to do with the local market — you're touching into wholesale, retail, direct sales to contractors and homeowners and developers, right? So all four under the Cornerstone operations? Yeah, so there's lots of different opportunities to be able to purchase products and get information from us. And within the different brands we all do things slightly differently, so you know,

8:42they can get in touch with either a Mitten branch or myself directly and we can give them the correct information or direct them in the right direction to get the windows. So really from point A to Z, with the full manufacturing and then the end client facing. Yeah, so we can help with specification of products. Like you say, it may be the first time somebody's bought windows in their life, and I think — say, buying a car, you know — and you're

9:09deciding between a Ford or a GMC, you can speak to family members, friends, colleagues, and you'll find somebody who has had that particular vehicle. Whereas windows — it's not necessarily the same where you might not have anybody that you can ask for recommendations or specifications. So we can help with all that to ensure that you get the best comfort in the home based on the products that you use, and also prepare all the pricing for you, and we can work with

9:40contractors in terms of deliveries, to ensure that everything runs smoothly in terms of the time frame of the project. You mentioned earlier your time at the University of Manchester and taking retail and marketing there. So, well, first I wanted to ask — you are a football fan to some degree, but you've been to lots of business events at the football, so not necessarily a Manchester United thing? Yeah, that's the question that everybody asks — are you blue or red? That's right.

10:14So my team would actually be Blackpool. Okay, yeah. They got into the Premiership at one point, but I think they're down quite low at the moment. Right, okay, yeah. So it's quite a football culture there though, I'm sure. Yeah. So we're dealing with trends, let's say, in window and door —

10:42would you say that — you were mentioning earlier — the difference between European and North American seems to be a big gap, and I'm sure that's the same with a lot of things on the architectural side, as far as products and buildings? Yeah, so in terms of efficiency, generally the building code is a lot stricter in Europe. They have to build windows to a high level. I would say for the last 10 to 12 years that I was in England, I

11:16was seeing maybe 90% triple-glazed. Whereas here it's just gaining more popularity, where that was the main product that we would sell. Okay. I think it's really good with Cornerstone being such a large organization that we have an in-house innovation team, so they're constantly working on developing products all the time to meet new code requirements that are going to come in — so you're looking at 2030 and beyond when you're designing products now. Yeah. I think there's no point to

11:51bring in new products that are going to be outdated in three to five years. Our head of engineering for Ply Gem — he's actually the president of Fenestration BC — so he's been heavily involved with all of the new codes that have just come into BC, which generally will start over there and then gradually make their way across over here. So we can also work with an architect or a contractor to future-proof the buildings that they're designing, so that we can say, you know, this is the level

12:24that's going to be coming in. If it follows suit from BC, this will be coming in within the next sort of six to twelve months, to ensure that they're specifying for the future. Why do you think the building code is so much higher standard in Europe as opposed to North America — without offending, like, a hundred thousand people? I don't really know. Because the climate here — the historical thing, yeah? We just have a harsh climate here. Harsher than you would, so

12:52why is it not a higher standard here then? I think it's just — harsher winters, we have more moisture. Yeah, although there are a lot of areas in Europe that are certainly not landlocked by any means, but yeah, and they're not going to go as cold or have as drastic temperature changes. So I'm surprised that it hasn't been sooner that they jumped on it, but I think the UK is the same. So mainland Europe —

13:24whether you're in Germany, Austria, France — they are stricter. And then the UK has kind of dragged their feet a little bit behind and is now going up to mainland European standards, whereas I think Canada is just starting to catch up and design new products. Right, because it's not necessarily an architectural thing. It's easy to pinpoint that, you know, the Renaissance in architecture in Europe is a different world than North America, but this is more of a

13:55building practice. Yeah. And I think the actual construction of the buildings is different — they have much thicker walls over there, so they can actually hold a much deeper section of a window. One thing that I had to really research when I came over here is — you know, where we use jamb extensions in brick walls — that's not something that is used at all over there, so it was completely new territory to me. Like window jambs for brick? Yes, where you have the — yeah, so the wall assembly is

14:28different, so you just have the window frame and then that's going to go into the wall. So it's just constructed differently. The walls that they have can house a deeper window. It's like there's no window jambs — the window jamb is there to fasten within the wall. Whereas here it's a structural steel stud wall, the sheathing, and different ingredients in the assembly. Yeah. So it's possibly to do with that as to why they are slightly behind. But as I say, we are really working on new

14:58products to allow us to go to much higher levels, and a goal that we would like is to be able to get to passive house standard. So for our listeners — let's say a local developer in New Brunswick, PEI, Nova Scotia, possibly central Canada — who aren't focused on fenestration, the window and entry door systems, patio doors, this kind of package for their building — maybe just a little context on what low-E, triple glaze, double glaze are, just for understanding, a little bit

15:39of context — a 101 on what these things are and the terminology. Just because I'm sure there are potential clients or people listening who hear those terms even in industry, in the glazing world commercially, and it's just a term that gets thrown around but they're not really sure what it means. Okay. So with low-E, it's a coating that's going to go onto the glass. And we have hard coats and soft coats. So with

16:10North Star we're fully vertically integrated, so we're actually building our own units in-house. From big eight-by-twelve-foot sheets of glass, they cut them down and build the units there. And you can have a hard coat or soft coat, which is just a different process of how the glass is actually coated — whether it's applied in its molten state or whether it's applied in a vacuum chamber. And so you will have the coating on the glass, which is going to help the conductivity.

16:40The sunlight's going to come through in shortwave radiation, and then it's converted by the glass into longwave radiation which then can't escape through the coating of the glass. So it's allowing you to have that winter sun coming through to heat up, but then you can also have options that are going to stop very hot sun coming through and damaging your floors, for example. Exactly, yeah — so damaging the floors and just the general comfort of the home. You know, glass technology has come on a lot

17:16in recent years. It's not, you know, typically the uncoated single-pane glass or the very old original double glazing that's going to stain the floors, bleach curtains or drapes as we call them here. And so you can have issues with UV damage, where generally it's not as much of an issue now. But also the comfort inside the room — I think now the cooling costs have exceeded the heating costs in

17:48a property. So you want to be comfortable all year round. Say, for example, if you look at triple glazing — people think about it for winter, but it can work well in summer as well in terms of cooling the home and keeping your costs down. Yeah. So that will give us some context into the elaborate manufacturing of these products, and just the R&D section within Cornerstone Building Brands would be astronomical — the warehouses and the

18:19assembly lines for manufacturing and stuff — it's really intricate, so detailed in the way they're manufactured. And it comes down to when you don't have control over whether or not it is air-sealed in the rough opening, those kinds of things. How do you navigate — how do you gain control at the end point of the installation? Whether it's your lines, brands, retail, contractor divisions — do they have

18:51to have any kind of certain designation to install your windows specifically? Or do you basically lose control once that product is on site — it's no longer your concern? I'm just thinking about this from a logistical standpoint where products are shipped and once it's in the owner's hands, our liability is over. But you'd obviously take that much care to manufacture, research, and produce these products where you're meeting code 20 years in advance. So how do you govern the

19:24installation? Well, it's not that simple — we're working with different products for different contractors and installers. So I would say it's a fairly standard installation for both of the products that we offer. And you're right that you can have the best window in the world and if it's not installed properly, then you've wasted your money. So we include installation guides with the windows, and they will also come with a sticker — each window will have a

19:55sticker which gives an overview of how we recommend the window be installed, to ensure that you're not going to have any issues long-term, like water ingress or anything like that. And ultimately it's down to the installer or the contractor to ensure that they do that effectively. Quality contractors — that's going to happen regardless. Yeah, yeah. So it's reliant on the installer, but we do give detailed recommendations on how we believe it should be fitted. So what are — we're talking about

20:28the North Star window and door products or lines — what are some of the main sellers? Or as far as frame types or entry door systems, say, trending or new products that give advantage over competitors here in Atlantic Canada? So we have a couple of fantastic new products from North Star. One was released last month and then one about six months ago. So we have our ComfortStar patio door — so it's a

21:05sliding patio door system and it actually meets a performance grade rating of PG50, so very high performance. It's great for this location where you've got exposed properties — it allows for very energy-efficient and water-tight performance. A fantastic system. It's a five-and-seven-eighths frame on the slider, it's available in two, three, and four panels. You can have side panels on there, you can have transom windows on top. Would a purchaser — a homeowner or a building owner — be able to choose

21:53what frame material it comes in? Or is it aluminum? Is it vinyl? So this would be vinyl. With North Star, all of our products are vinyl. And one fantastic selling point that we have is all of our windows are laminated. This is increasingly important as people are going for darker colors — you know, they're stepping away from traditional whites. The biggest seller that we have now is a black window, because of attracting the sunlight, the dark colors — exactly, yeah. So if you were

22:25to paint a vinyl window — if you compare a white window to a black window, there's going to be so much more heat absorption in the black product. So it can cause a paint to fade, it can cause it to split. But also, if that heat is generating through the black, it's going to absorb into the vinyl itself, which causes the entire window to swell up. And somebody might try and force it closed when it's swelled up, and you're then damaging the hardware on the window. And as we have

22:55such a variable climate here, they're swelling up and cooling down — and then the paint all starts to crack and everything. Now with the laminate system we use, it's actually a German system — it's the same process that was used on the windows that — yeah, it was. So it's a multi-layered system. It's called our Fusion Wrap — so it's a laminate that's chemically bonded onto the surface of the vinyl. A vinyl veneer? Yeah, so let's see this. So this is

23:32actually a paintable, stainable finish. So this is put onto a piece of pine. You can see here where it overlaps, but it actually has a roughness to it that you can paint or stain to make it look like wood. So this would just be for the inside — you couldn't, because this doesn't have a protective layer, this can't be outside. But we have a wide range of colors that are available for inside only and inside-outside, and you can mix and match those. And with that you

24:00would have a protective PVDF layer on the top, you'd have the color, you'd have a UV shield — so that is stopping any fading on the color itself — and then you have a solar shield, so what that's doing is stopping the heat transfer from the sun coming into the vinyl. So it's going to be a much more durable finish than you would have on a painted window. And I always like to use this example: as you know, my parents have the window company, using the same process. My dad put

24:33black windows into our home in 1986 and they're still as black as when they went in — no peeling, no fading, no chipping or anything. It's really durable. Yeah. So we have lots of people that I speak to — builders — and they have painted windows delivered to sites and they're damaged before they've even installed them. And then they're having issues where they need to have them resprayed or even replacing the windows in some cases, whereas with this it's much more durable.

25:07So it's great for new construction sites. It is very serviceable — you can have color-matched touch-up pens, so if there's just some small damage to the window, say something's fallen against it, you can touch that up. They also do specialist wax kits — they would be like blocks of wax, like we did the old-fashioned sealing of a letter. You know, you melt it down, and even if you had some slight damage to the surface of the vinyl, you can mold that wax into the

25:38surface and repair that on site — make it flush — and that would be color-matched. And also you need to have training to be able to do this, but if you had some significant damage on a product — say someone accidentally spilled something on it, a chemical that damaged the surface — then it can be chemically debonded. So you can use a material that is going to peel that away, and then you can rebond a piece on site.

26:11Yeah, really. So it's serviceable, it's also really easy to clean — it can just be wiped down with soapy water. So it's got that durable lifespan. And the company that we have in England is based on the coast, so the showroom is about 500 meters from the sea — very, very salty. And it withstands any issues that you have with salt that's in the air. So for the maritime environment that you have here, it's

26:42a really good option to go for, because it's not going to have any impact from the environmental factors of the weather. For sure. So with you particularly, Kate — your job as architectural lead for Cornerstone Building Brands — do you find that your time is spent on the business development side dealing with whether it's an architect on a home, a home designer, a design team, or an end user like a homeowner or a builder? Are you managing your time between many different

27:16touch points there for your entry point? Do you find your time is more beneficial — or do you spend more time — maybe your days consist of meeting with all kinds of — so I would say predominantly I'm trying my utmost to educate people on our products. So I'll go in and introduce new products that we have to architects. And you do weekly or monthly seminars? Yeah, so I do

27:48accredited ones in Ontario, so for here it would be accreditation but it'd be classed as unstructured learning. An architect can have an hour session. I've got — I think the next one's on the 22nd of this month. So that would talk in detail about all the windows and doors, fenestration, our new doors that we have — the ComfortStar and also the Sentinel front entry system which we've just developed. And so yeah, going out, seeing architects, seeing builders,

28:22helping with specifications. And then I have a team that will do the takeoffs and the quotes — we have a dedicated team for the East so that they can get those out nice and quick for us. You mentioned the ComfortStar. These lines that are developed internally — yes, they are. So are you — when that happens — do they take into perspective certain geographic locations as far as moisture and, you know, the weather? Yeah, so they will develop something for pretty much

29:01all of North America. They just sum it up with the whole — they're going to go based on the worst weather that we could get in Canada. Yeah. So, for example, the Sentinel door system — that was launched just last month. It's a front entry door system. The in-house innovation team and engineers have developed it with Washington State University and the University of Waterloo in Ontario. So it's been a two-year process to develop the new product, and it will actually withstand

29:31Category 4 hurricane. Wow, really strong. So they've got a completely new material — it's a mix of PVC, wood sawdust, and calcium carbonate. Really strong, and it stops potential rot and termites because of the way the product is actually made. And then that would have aluminum reinforcing in there to make it very, very strong, which it is — it has its strength but with a very slim sightline. So it gives a really nice contemporary look with the strength

30:12but without — previously we would use box frame, so say if you had a front door and then sidelights, they would be three separate items, which is really quite bulky. Whereas now it will be in one continuous frame, so there are no gaps that water could potentially come through. Even the brick mold is continuous that meets into the sill, so it's a really nice finish. We'd like to welcome our newest partner here at AC Media — the Freeman Group. The Freeman Group

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31:40windows with more mullions — or more of that without full glazing — there's always more risk of leakage and those kinds of things, right? Yeah. So I think it's important, and as you're saying, making the correct specification of windows in a project is so important to ensure that — it's obviously a wide spectrum of products, from something very, very cheap up to something very, very expensive. And I think with Cornerstone we sit kind of in the middle, so it

32:14allows us to offer high-performing products but without going into those really high prices that you would expect from, say, the European products I was selling previously. Right. And you imagine previously, on some of the higher-end homes that you worked on — as far as a fenestration package on the home with windows, entry door systems, patio doors — these are $250,000 portions of, obviously not on every home, but that's with your previous company. Right, because with your previous job? Okay, with your

32:47right, yeah. So now you're probably looking at a saving of maybe 50 to 60%, but we're giving that high performance and the really contemporary looks without going into those huge price points. You mentioned earlier some of the heritage property projects local in Atlantic Canada — without mentioning specific ones, you're meeting with certain developers on some large local projects downtown here, but that's got to be exciting and challenging — to

33:24introduce windows with certain frame materials that are going to meet the specs on these heritage projects. Maybe talk a little bit about that. Yeah, so I think it's nice that we have such a wide range of products so that we can mix and match. We have the ability to do a solid wood window with aluminum to the exterior. So say, for example, if you have a heritage facade, we can do that in the wood product and then

33:54you could do some value engineering in the project if you didn't want to go for wood all the way through — you can mix and match. So you could have this product where it could be the paintable, stainable finish to the interior with the aluminum outside. So you can stain them the same inside the property. In a lot of these projects there'll be a heritage element and then they'll have a very contemporary addition, so you can mix

34:24and match those products. And likewise, even with a custom home, we have a product that's actually a vinyl window with aluminum cladding to both sides, which is really unique to our company. So it allows you to have that contemporary aesthetic of a fully extruded aluminum product but probably at half the price. And then you can have it where you just have the aluminum outside, so in, for example, main living areas you could have aluminum to the interior as well. And then bathrooms,

34:56basement windows, garage windows — you can save by eliminating the aluminum element from the inside and just having it as plain vinyl. Yeah, definitely some complex situations on these heritage buildings when it comes to windows and entry doors. So for listeners too, when we're talking about Cornerstone Building Brands, what they'll see locally is the Mitten locations in Dartmouth and New Brunswick, right, where the North Star window and Ply Gem window brands are sold? Yeah, so you would have those. We have a dealer in Cape Breton

35:33— a large dealer over there that you can buy from, and they will be able to offer installation of the product as well. And then as we grow more with the Ply Gem side of things, we'll look to introduce branches as well. But the great thing about Cornerstone is we have the connection — we have the ability to share the distribution network as well, share all the resources. So if we have windows made either in

36:02Calgary or Ontario — our head office for Mitten is in Brantford, Ontario — you could have one truck come to you that has all the windows and all the siding coming together. There's that possibility as well, because we can share the transport. So the closest touch point transport-wise for manufacturing from the east coast — is that Calgary or is that Ontario? North Star is in St. Thomas, Ontario. Okay, yeah, so just close to London. Okay, so not far, yeah.

36:33Yeah, so over there they are fully vertically integrated. What that means is — the difference between a window assembler and a window manufacturer: an assembler is going to buy in all of the components and just build up the window. Whereas with North Star, we are extruding our own profiles from virgin vinyl powder — the powder goes into the machines and they make the profiles. We have seven extrusion lines in the factory, and we also have our own glass lines. So we have

37:05our own laminating machine. We're doing all the color there, assembling everything, making our own screens — so it's fully integrated. Whereas, in comparison — for context — a lot of other smaller organizations involved in manufacturing and wholesale retail of window and door products are gathering up these ingredients from somewhere and then maybe just making the frames and installing the glass. Whereas, like you say, it's fully backwards-integrated. And I think when people may associate

37:41familiarity with a particular window brand — the brand may be just extruding the profiles and providing the hardware. So that window is only as good as the person who's assembling it. They might not follow the same procedures, so you could have what on paper should be exactly the same window, but one is made higher quality than the other because it's just down to how they are actually putting them together in the plant. And so that can be an issue, whereas

38:13with all our products, we're full manufacturers — they're coming out of our plant. So if you buy a North Star window, a North Star door, or a Ply Gem window, it's coming out of that one factory. Exactly. Other places, you might just be buying their manufacturing process and then they place their label on the frame somewhere. Yeah, for sure. And I think this is such a big part of — you mentioned

38:39that before — green building in general and efficiency. When it comes to the performance of the building, does that require you to keep up educationally with different designations and knowledge around green building? Yeah, definitely. And as I say, we'd like to be at the level where we can achieve passive house. Dealing with passive houses is very complicated — it is something that I've

39:15done back in the UK. But you need to use the software to ensure that the walls, the heat pumps, and the windows are all meeting the correct criteria. So that's something that I'm actually looking into at the moment — the Canadian side of that particular standard. And we want to keep our clients up to date as well — educating them on any new codes coming in. So for example, we

39:48do various different sessions — two per month, and they're online. So we have changes to the NBC 2020 codes, and for any larger developers we have a session on tempered glass and guard loads in terms of safety for high-rise buildings, and NAFS in Part 9 buildings. So we have various different courses that we do, staying up to date ourselves but then also wanting to educate others to ensure that they're specifying correctly. Right. This

40:22is a very different product that's used for, say, curtain wall in a building that's over 10 stories than a typical residential vinyl window — so many different scenarios. Yeah. And because we have in-house engineering, we can code-review projects as well. So if something is, you know, a high-rise on the water, for example, down here — that's going to have a lot of design pressures on it — then we can prepare a quote and look at the specification, look at the

40:55orientation, the location, how exposed it is, is it open to rain, is it amongst other high-rise buildings — and then we can run that through to ensure that the specification for that particular project is correct and there aren't going to be any issues down the line. Yeah. How important is it for you, in your position as architectural lead on these fenestration products, to have knowledge of mechanical systems and airflow — and just how that interacts with your building products? And in

41:32scenarios where you're able to recommend — are you looking at whether this building is on natural gas heat, or this building has heat pumps in every unit, or doesn't? Yeah, are you looking at those things when you're thinking of what products you recommend? Not so much. And I think what we can look at is — if, say, a project has just been given the specification on the windows to meet code, we can say for not too

42:04much extra, you can go to a better U-value — the performance rating of the window. If you pay a bit more on the windows, then you can pay a lot less on the heat pump, for example, or the HVAC. So they go hand in hand — if one thing performs better, you don't need the other element to perform quite as well. So if I see that it is just meeting code and it's quite a high U-value on the

42:33windows, then I'll say go for a better U-value and then you can save in other areas. And generally the quotations that we provide from both manufacturers would have individual calculated performance values for each item, so they can then be given to an energy modeler who can put it into the software to ensure that everything is uniform in terms of the rest of the build. I think, yeah, for homeowners who are looking right now and haven't

43:06thought of North Star under the Mitten locations under the Cornerstone Building Brands — locally here, whether they're homeowners or a developer with a multi-unit, there are so many multi-unit residential buildings happening now throughout Nova Scotia and New Brunswick — what are some key points that would at least get our listeners to reach out? Warranty-wise, what are some detailed things or information that might prompt some of our listeners to

43:46reach out? So I would say, as we spoke about, the laminate portion of the windows — that's certainly for this location a really great requirement, specifically because of the saltwater environment, yeah. Because of the yeah — the hardware suited to a marine environment, the performance on the new ComfortStar door, and also the performance on the Sentinel entry door that we have as well. So allowing you to buy everything from one company but get those high performance levels, and

44:22know that it is going to be something that lasts for decades. We have a limited lifetime warranty on the products — in terms of the glass and the performance of the window itself, that would have a lifetime warranty. The colors on the laminate have a 20-year warranty. As I say, it's something that we've had in our house since I was a small child, and I can speak from real experience that it's extremely durable and it's a really good option to

44:56go for. We have the warranty available for clients, but it is something that's going to last for decades. How's the market in Toronto for your specific niche? I mean, that's where you're situated with Cornerstone's office there, and I'm sure you have a good pulse on how things are — you've been there since 2020, so over three years. Yeah, I think the GTA in particular is going for

45:34very contemporary builds. You've got that mix really — the very contemporary, you know, boxy style houses with lots of glass, or then the styles like the Oakville area where they're going for a traditional look on the windows. So we can offer both of those. We have grills and SDLs for those more traditional arched windows or apex triangular windows. If you're doing like a big you

46:08know, people with a big patio door and then a big triangle above —

46:14skylights we do from Calgary. Okay, so yeah, we can do those via VELUX. Yeah, there's got to be some neat designs on

46:29those. Yeah. So I think black is definitely the color that's had popularity — white facades with black windows — but you were saying that's already moved on so much in Europe, that's totally different? Yeah, it's more — it used to be black and now it's gone towards gray tones. So anthracite gray was, by far, the most popular product that I would do, slate gray, and also some softer, more sort of beige-brown tones. And we're seeing that on the west coast as well

47:00with our products — people going for more sort of taupe and softer tones rather than the harshness of black. So I would say that's definitely a change that we're going to see coming — going for slightly lighter colors. So what are some other trends that you're seeing with Cornerstone as far as window and door systems moving into the future? Is there anything kind of game-changing, or is it more building on the same? Yeah,

47:32I'd say it's just introducing more colors. So we're looking at some exterior wood laminates — whereas I said this one's just the interior — to be able to have some of the softer tones that would look almost like a beachy feel, and then slightly more gray tones with the wood. And then also, you know, being able to — I don't work on the siding side, but we've got lots of new things that have been introduced into the siding

48:03range. So is that mostly vinyl siding, or is it metal roofing, metal siding, and that? Vinyl siding — we do vinyl siding and we do metal siding, and also stone as well. So is that all under the Mitten brand, or several brands? In Canada it's under Mitten. So we have the new WestRidge range, which is a foam-backed vinyl siding product. It comes in various different colors — it's a really authentic wood-replica product. And so

48:37you could compare it to, say, fiber cement — it's going to be cheaper in terms of the product but it's also going to be more durable, and the install is going to be significantly less as well. Yeah, fiber cement is not fun to deal with for anyone — cladding and installers who are listening right now, it's tough stuff to cut. Yeah. And then also the Luxe product — I think it's 24-gauge steel siding. It has various different colors and

49:09they also have some wood prints on there, so it looks like solid wood — a digital print, a wood grain, yeah, exactly. Kind of a product line that does that. Really, really durable with that, and very contemporary looks. And what I'm seeing a lot of is a mix of materials on a building — they'll have some stone, then they'll have some siding, then some render, and then different elevations having a different

49:40look. So a real mix and match of materials. It's really great that we can offer all of the different products. And does that happen on a lot of the projects that you're working on — on the fenestration side where it's a Mitten product and a stone product all under the same umbrella? Yeah, which must be hard to keep up with all the different brands. Yeah, we try to work together as much as we can. And again, it helps with the distribution as well in terms

50:04of delivery. So yeah, I'm constantly talking to the guys from Mitten to see what projects we can work on together. Interesting. With yourself, Kate — what do you find surprises you most about working here in North America and Canada, specifically compared to the UK and Europe? You know, in England you still use imperial measurements? Yeah, okay. So it's the imperial-metric thing. Yeah, that was a big learning curve for me. Even at school — dominant side, right? I mean, they're both there on most drawings, so most of the

50:46time it's dealing in imperial. Okay. In my head I'm still trying to think, you know, it's like, in millimeters —

50:57yes. I say definitely that, and then the different building styles — having to learn all of the different brick mold sizes and jamb extension sizes and jamb materials, just not something that I was used to at all. I remember the first time someone said, "Do you do a brick mold?" and it was like, "What's a brick mold?" What about living here in Canada for the last three years, compared to England, the UK? We love it, yeah. Yeah, really nice. And

51:34still working on your PR? I am, yes — 19 months in. Yeah, so if you have any government listeners, help me please. With you and your fiancé, are you both from London? So he's actually Swedish — so he was more used to the climate than me. He's from Lapland, northern Sweden. So the winters really hit me hard when I moved here. I'd never driven in proper snow before, so that was — how was that? That was a

52:06learning experience. And then I think more surprising, with regards to the weather, is how warm the summer is — I didn't expect that at all. Yeah, it was a good summer. Yeah, so probably you've been here at good timing for the summers. Yeah, yeah. The first summer, I think it started in like March or April and it was, you know, late 20s, and staying nice weather until September, October. So yeah, that was a nice surprise — to have good summers. It's great. Anything we

52:36didn't touch on or mention on behalf of Cornerstone Building Brands, Kate, as far as the local market here on the east coast in Atlantic Canada — and specifically Ply Gem and North Star windows — that you want to mention for anyone that's listening in from the Nova Scotia HRM area or from the other provinces on the east coast? I would say it's definitely a growth area for us. We're really utilizing the distribution that we have through Mitten to grow the business that we have

53:08over here. We've got many products that are perfectly suited for this climate, and we can offer everything for the building envelope. We're here to help where possible, and if somebody's not familiar with either of the brands, then we're more than happy to connect them with any of our Ontario-based or western dealers or distributors who can vouch for the product and give any information that they need as well from a third party.

53:42For sure. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for your time, and I know you're saying this is your first time at — and I hope you have safe travels back to Toronto and that you make it back out to Halifax at some point for some of these projects that you're meeting on. Good luck with those, and thank you so much. Great to be here. We'd like to thank our longtime sponsor Cook Insurance. Cook is your trusted insurance broker in Atlantic

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