Building Envelope Commissioning, Passive House vs Net Zero, Mass Timber & More — Live from BuildGreen Atlantic 2023 (11 Experts)

0:00this episode is brought to you by our presenting sponsor Pizzant Building Products Pizzant Building Products has been providing contractors and Builders with the supplies necessary to complete their jobs since 1964. they have built a reputation of honest helpful and Quality Service serving the HRM for the last 58 years now with seven locations in Nova Scotia and one in New Brunswick our team in Atlantic Construction Podcast is extremely excited to announce our new co-branded partner Procore Procore is the global leader in construction management software we'll be conducting

0:29several podcast episodes with Procore users and construction companies across the country in 2023 among many other things stay tuned we're excited welcome back to the Atlantic Construction Podcast uh we're here on site at BuildGreen Atlantic at the Halifax Convention Centre and I'm joined by Janet Tobin with EfficiencyOne Efficiency Nova Scotia thank you so much Janet for taking a few minutes to sit with us yeah thanks this is great yeah it's really a great event and obviously you know efficiency is a big part of uh

1:02organizing the event maybe could you tell us a little bit about you know Efficiency Nova Scotia your role in BuildGreen Atlantic what it means for you as an organization and maybe some of the members of your organization who helped pull this whole thing together yeah for sure so at Efficiency Nova Scotia you know we help residential homeowners and businesses make Energy Efficiency upgrades that ultimately reduce their energy use reduce their greenhouse gas emissions and lower their energy bills um so you know today we're here uh as in

1:34a way to support yes mostly looking at our industry and capacity building you know a lot of the folks that are here today uh work within the green cleantech sector a lot of them are members of our efficiency preferred partner Network so it's great to see everyone here to learn more about you know kind of what the future holds for the green the greenbuilt environment absolutely and we've had some of your preferred Partners stop by and you know they were kind of informing us about what it means

2:01to be a preferred partner with the Efficiency Nova Scotia where they're getting that support and that help on educational uh materials and you know applying for funding and grants for their clients maybe just tell us a little bit about the preferred partner because a lot of the booths here and people here our preferred Partners like yourself sure yeah so if you have if you catch Linda Munden later she's she's your gal to stop you for sure but I can give you a quick overview so the efficiency preferred partner network is a

2:27collective of I think over 300 Partners across the entire Province 50 of those actually operate outside of Halifax and they work with homeowners and businesses to actually help do do the work so whether it's um you know installing heat pumps and putting in insulation doing energy modeling things like that and so working with us um you know it provides that kind of directory of places that homeowners and businesses can go to find contractors to help you know complete that work but within that group as well we do a lot of

3:01training through ASHRAE through through other pieces to help these businesses you know Build and Grow themselves and and figure out what the next what the next new thing is what the next technology learn more about things like building codes and just get the training they need you know it's a pretty open relationship so if we're here hearing from our partners that there's training that they want yes and they know then Linda and her team will work you know with the groups to figure out how we can

3:27bring that training to them yeah it sounds like very collaborative uh facilitating of you know new research new education all around you know your your partners whether they're a contractor A supplier so many different facets but uh just a huge Hub to kind of carry forward uh on the path to Net Zero on the path to Green energy on the path to Energy savings exactly so I think we do all have to work together you know we we can't our programs wouldn't exist without homeowners to to utilize them

3:55and take advantage of them our homeowners of course uh you know need our incentives and rebates in order to you know kind of subsidize the cost of that work that they have to do um but also we certainly couldn't do it without industry and so important for us to you know help industry grow and adapt to new technologies and learn from them and and learn from you know their peers as well absolutely well it's got to be a satisfying feeling for for your team with EfficiencyOne efficiency Nova

4:24Scotia to be here at an event like this and to see the turnout uh you know to be collaborating with BuildGreen Atlantic and see so many different uh companies and backgrounds many from other Province many from central Canada uh and all kinds from Nova Scotia just to see everyone's uh obviously you know Forefront of their thinking is is to take this energy uh for sure to the next level yeah it's I mean it's an exciting time I mean it's a solo crowd here today which is amazing I I'm getting the vibe

4:51it'll be even bigger next year um you know I think people are excited to be able to come back and do events like this after the past few years of not being able to um you know but also it's just an exciting time in the industry there's lots of funding out there lots of training opportunities uh we're seeing you know government at all levels support more incentives and rebates for homeowners and for businesses um you know and with that comes needing to grow the industry so it's just a

5:15really really exciting time and you know it's nice to be able to to look ahead and kind of know that um you know the next you know 10 15 years you know are going to be really really really exciting amazing well thank you so much thank you Jennifer it's been great thanks all right that's great thank you okay welcome back to the Atlantic Construction Podcast we're here on site at uh BuildGreen Atlantic at the Halifax Convention Centre and I'm joined by Madison Schimpf yeah the hard one no it's not bad mine's

5:45harder Arsenault um uh Madison is with the Department of Natural Resources and Renewables uh with the provincial government in Nova Scotia uh Madison we were kind of talking earlier about just your personal Journey um one of the things that we try and do is shed light on different people from different backgrounds in the industry whether it's energy whether it's a government organization or a contractor and just talk tell us a little bit about your story your journey in the industry you mentioned you went to NSCC to two

6:13and two with there and yeah what university get mad about Mount Saint Vincent yeah so tell us like because you were in Sciences yeah business so I assume you have a bit of uh maybe the entrepreneurial Spirit perhaps maybe um yeah so in high school I was really drawn to Sciences did really well in Sciences so I just figured I'll do science and University um so I went to Acadia University and did a few years there for a science degree decided that wasn't overly my passion wasn't really sure what job I

6:41could get out of it I wasn't really interested in working in a lab anything like that so I decided to take some time off and I started working actually at a locally owned small sailing store and they expressed that I had a knack for business so I was like so you're a people person yeah I guess so I mean I've always been in customer service type of roles and stuff like that so I do like talking to people um and they yeah expressed that I had a

7:03knack for business so I decided why not try the NSCC business program before before like this never kind of pinpointed that so they kind of kind of extracted ahead of you but yeah pretty much the owners yeah I never ever had an interest in business I never thought about going the business wrote and I just decided to do NSCC because it's just a two-year program and I figured even if I don't love it it's two years I can get through it so I finished the two years fell in love with business

7:30especially like leadership type classes were ones that really resonated with me so do you remember at what point okay so use leadership classes yeah was there certain kind of Milestones you remember we were thinking like this is it for me this is this is what I want to do honestly pretty much right away right away right away I was like wow this is a whole new world I feel like this I've taken business I've graduated from UPEI new semester at St Mary's and I think like it's one of them things it is kind

7:53of generic you do a lot of electives and stuff but it comes to your typical accounting Business Development Finance all that kind of stuff but yeah I guess uh you know even just the first little bit you're getting a feel for it you knew that yeah yeah much right away I knew that I really really enjoyed it and I guess in high School business wasn't overly offered so I didn't I didn't really even know so I think that's why it took me so long to find that Rose

8:20because I just didn't know right I think there's almost a little bit of a stigma there too because like you said you know you you did Sciences for a bit and probably like people have Sciences up on maybe not a pedestal but a certain status yeah or his business is a little bit more broad you know almost taken a business groups I don't really know what I want to do right right yeah so there's not Factor too everybody doesn't know what they want to do yeah like true yeah

8:42what are you gonna do after you get some thousands of different Avenues right yeah and that's kind of what I learned so I still have that love for science um still which is still going to play a benefit in your career and I'm sure it is with your with your role yeah um yeah um yeah I still have that love for Science and business so you know when those two worlds are meshed together that's really where I'm happiest right and would you say like with your role

9:08now with the Department of Renewables um natural resources uh that that's kind of the situation you're in where there's the science side and the business development side and honestly I kind of forgot about that love for Sciences until I started with this position and then I was like this is this is like my world this is exactly where I want to be that's awesome so satisfying it is involved in something that you love where you're going to work yeah I've actually been even thinking about like going back and just finishing my science

9:34degree again and yeah like it's your three years uh completed right yeah and I would also have a bunch of electives finished already from Mount Saint Vincent so I don't even I assume I wouldn't do this online yeah for sure yeah I actually finished my business degree online as well and it was great um so yeah it kind of ties into the event we're at today you know BuildGreen Atlantic a lot of talk about the path to Net Zero and green construction and with your role uh Business Development and

10:00marketing with the Department of Natural Resources and Renewables and that kind of that combination between science and business where an event like this is only one part of it right we've got to get out talk to each other and network be you know be connected collaborate but we're only as good as the technology the science behind the building projects and the methods and it all takes time perfect event to encapsulate your personal Journey as well yeah yeah it's been really good in this event it was an amazing turnout I wasn't

10:30overly sure because they haven't had one since I believe 2018 2019 since before coven so we weren't sure of the turnout but it's it's amazing yeah I'm very impressed yeah a lot of people hear from different backgrounds you mentioned tomorrow you're going to another event I think you said it was at NSCC one of the things we're trying to do Atlantic Construction Podcast and AC media is just kind of shed light on the industry what it means to be in the industry all the different players the vast amount of

10:55different people involved different backgrounds to make these buildings and ICI construction come to life tell us a little bit about what you'll be doing tomorrow at NSCC uh for the students there yeah so tomorrow they're actually having it's with skills Canada they're having a skills competition there and so there's multiple different sectors I suppose yeah many different so I actually went to Picto the NSCC Pictou skills competition last week two weeks ago last week um and they had five I believe hairdressing was one of them uh mechanics they had a bunch of

11:34different ones electrical so they do competitions yep carpentry um so they do a bunch of different ones and then I guess the top competitors from there go to the National competitions and so forth and so on so tomorrow we're setting up an exhibitor similar to this and we'll talk to the students and the teachers and just kind of spread word about some programs we have going on and then we'll also do a tour throughout NSCC to see the competition see how everybody's going and things like that just yeah yeah no

12:01that's awesome good luck uh tomorrow uh it's been great uh to meet and chat with you here today thanks for stopping by spend a few minutes with us thanks for having me yeah great uh great to hear a little about your personal journey and uh yeah we'll look forward to our audience uh taking a listener perfect thank you cheers okay welcome back to the Atlantic Construction Podcast we are here on site at the BuildGreen Atlantic at the Halifax Convention Centre and I'm joined by Charlene Cormier from EastPoint Charlene thanks

12:29for taking a few minutes you're welcome yes you were telling me from New Brunswick born and raised in a small town called Caraquet a fishing Village of 5 000 peoples so I grew up like on a Farm by the ocean uh you know very sustainable eating a lot of local uh elements and you know then eventually move to a bigger city in Halifax where the construction world is a little bit more challenging and you know a little bit bigger so uh basically my father and grandfather and his father

13:03were all constructed they're all construction Builders Builders yes mostly residentials so that's where I into it so my sort of passed down exactly which I feel like it is for a lot of people in America yes I mean I can't really build anything I can only design it or critique it hey that part is important too right we're all in this together we're all we're all different gifts exactly when I want something built I call my father still yeah so when I wanted what I know I'm just going

13:30to do it right yes absolutely so so I guess my so I've been working at EastPoint since 2019 so I'm the sustainability manager at EastPoint okay and I've been in a construction field for about 30 years so that gives you approx working as an architect or well my background is architectural technologists so I've always worked in the architectural field yes I mostly work with architectural firms in the past and uh in the last probably 10 years I've kind of worked more in the sustainable world with Architects and

14:04engineer because I realized that my passion was more about sustainable construction and green buildings so and I from in 2004 I moved to Bermuda so that was kind of an interesting eye-opening thing living on an island where everything is brought in and uh you know things things are not as like you would think an annuling would have to be sustainable but not always so it was kind of a little bit of eye-opening and then they made me a pre even though the weather was great yeah I appreciate

14:33Canada for a lot of different reasons okay I still don't like the snow but you know I appreciate culture is a great education exactly exactly so then when I came back I worked for another company and then I just went into EastPoint and I guess at EastPoint I mean we're consulting firm we do architectural engineering you know but the thing is we have a specialized team that does energy and sustainability and uh we have a good core team that we do a lot of specialized kind of uh you know elements

15:03like carbon neutral studies we're doing a lot of like studies and like you know we do commissioning recommissioning and we're you know right now we're finding there's we're kind of like trying to invent a lot of things because there's a lot of times that you know people want results and you know we have to kind of figure out how to get there so it's a little bit challenging yeah can you elaborate on commissioning yeah maybe it's comparable to say a building Sciences group a third party coming in

15:30to test to help with the design tell us a little bit about commissioning yeah so commissioning is not new but you know people are starting to realize why it's important so we have a team that does systems commissioning so mechanical electrical system uh which my co-workers do like electrical and mechanical engineers I do building envelope commissioning so the process is kind of the same so basically we're third party independent from the design team A lot of times we're hired by the client which could be a building owner or it could be

16:01like the province it could you know we do a lot of schools yeah or hospitals so the advantage the that you know people are starting to realize is that we're like an extra step to Quality check we can't uh basically you know we're not the designers so what we do is what our specialized team we reviewed a design and we're not there to critique their work we're there to maybe like oh well did you think like we were there to advise them like right maybe necessarily as an inspector no and we're

16:32just there to say like oh well maybe if you do this then you know this might be a better way so we're there kind of as a second quality check so we're there during the design process and that's where clients you know it's early on yes because the the issue is you know you want to catch this into design if you're catching this during construction it's going to cost you more exactly but then it's so that's money's already spent in by the general the owner the sub exactly

16:58so that's why owners are have to be educated and realizing the benefit of commissioning is during the design where you're still can change things that maybe could help your systems but not like cost you money not just help in the form of construction but helping the cost to operate the building for 60 years after exactly so that's where our team comes in and then now a billing envelope commissioning which is part of the when if you're doing a LEED building it's one of the credits the same as

17:28commissioning so it's becoming more popular because of that but I'm even doing building envelope commission for non-LEED projects so for example you know construction now is going really and you know the client sometimes I mean it's hard for clients to be educated or like understand just can't know everything about everything exactly that's why you know you mentioned if the commissioning is like adding another step another their safety net if you will in the process to catch these things before they cost money makes me think about like are there situations in

18:00public or private where you are necessary in a health care job like not a commissioning is actually in this in the spec as part of the design process yeah you need to be there yes because I think I feel like there's a lot of projects where you should be there and you're not well that's the thing like for example I think the province understands like government kind of understands the need so like we're doing a lot of Health Care Facilities because like you know are you involved in some

18:24of the large Healthcare facilities expansion yes I mean it's seriously possible that's a new build yes so we are we're probably like either an envelope or either like system Commissioners we're kind of involved in a lot of them in most of them and the the issue is it's like imagine you know you're building a shiny new building and your envelope leaks or your system fails you can't afford to shut down a wing of a hospital so having the commissioning is an extra step to Quality to ensure

18:52that your first your building is like running as it should be because we're there like commissioning is during design then you know kind of when the systems get started up so basically you're there to kind of witness everything make sure they're they're operating as they should be before the building is occupied so when the same thing as like envelope so I'm during design during construction making sure it's built as it's supposed to be built and then we're doing we we hire third parties to do envelope testing yes and a

19:23lot of times you know the the contractor built it like it was designed we do an a water test and it leaks well it's just one little thing that and then but you know it's better to do it now than when you have the Building completed because then it's going to cost a lot I think that to myself like again it was limited knowledge I mean like it's hard to know everything but when it comes something like building envelope such a vast effort there's so many different ingredients and

19:49assemblies for our values and then your windows and your penetrations and your your Transitions and scope and and when it comes to the roof it's why not have commissioning involved all the time well I mean you almost need to I mean yes I mean of course it's for a fee but I mean at the long run it's kind of like you know it easiest the client's mind like okay like you know like if you want to find issues during construction and as well now like at the new uh energy code

20:18coming out there is a lot of emphasis on uh envelope leakage air leakage so that's going to be very you know you're not building owners are going to have to do envelope testing to see what is their uh you know what is their envelope air leakage because you could like design a whole building have shiny new systems but what if your envelope is leaking then your systems are not running properly or over running because of that so you know and it's a big endeavor I mean as a GC you know with site super on

20:47site and then your subcontractors that are involved in envelope trades like cladding blazing Roofing you know it's it's hard enough to keep everything under wraps as far as the scope Transitions and just making sure things are done right it's not that subcontractors aren't competent yes they are it's not that the GC is not overlooking and overseeing with project management yes they are but it's just such a big undertaking for some of these major public jobs especially in healthcare you know it's just to have that extra set of eyes that Mutual

21:15third-party is helpful to keep people accountable and I think they want to be held accountable right exactly and don't want to do it right yeah and Building Systems like mechanical systems and envelope systems are not getting simpler they're getting more complicated we have new systems that maybe people like you know contractors or subcontractors are not familiar with so things are always evolving so you know a lot of times a contractor you know they hire all the subs and they put it together but it's like just making sure that like the

21:45process and the way things are being installed or is done properly and so it's a lot of coordination yeah and again in tying into the event we're out here today I mean there's so many different uh different service companies here different companies that are selling products uh non-for-profit organizations educational based organizations so many different people collaborating and I think you know it goes to the same thing within the the building process like you know subcontractors are involved in this yes they want to price their work and get it

22:15done as fast as they can but they're aware then they need to be aware of the different methods and the new and the testing and these kinds of things when it comes to building envelope and make sure they allow enough to do that work with the extra time it's going to take to do it right and that I think the more we keep having events like this the more we're going to educate people on you know whether it's an estimator for a subcontracting company whether it's management with a general contractor or

22:37PM whether it's developers and the products they should be using about having people like yourself kind of keep people accountable commissioning the building and jobs there's so many different perspectives and different Avenues here that everyone needs to be on the same page on exactly and I mean you know that's the thing we want to design and build buildings that'll be there for a long time so you want to make sure that you know your billing is durable it's construct you know it's not just about the products you put in but

23:04how do they go in together because you could have the best products but if they're not interacting to each other as they should be then they can still fail so it's understanding how everything goes together so you know at the end of the day it's making sure everybody works together to kind of have the best outcome because I mean at the end of the day the contractor doesn't want to come back because there's a leap like he's you know it's not beneficial to anybody because everybody loses it again so at

23:31the end of the day we work a lot with the designers but also the contractors like they actually like having us there because it's not like they see you as a threat no and and we're there like we work with them like because you know like some guys or girls that are on site they have on-site experience and sometimes they're like oh well they come up with details and I'm like well actually that works better and so it's not about like you know it's amazing to see design professionals and then trade

23:57professionals working together I think a lot of times we don't have the openness and the collaboration levels that we need for those two different kinds of people maybe different competencies different temperaments but yeah if we can find a way to continue that yeah and that's uh refreshing to hear really we can make each other better exactly we need each other like I find that I'm kind of that Gap like you know your designers like they always like to you're kind of the middle guy yeah middleman like I'm independent yeah and

24:25I'm like okay like the detail is good but like you know sometimes I always because contractors have a lot to bring and they're like on site they see where the failures are I'm like I always take their like recommendations and then you know like it's it's like kind of a middle ground because they're accountable if it fails so they don't want to provide a solution a lot of pride in what they're doing I mean you're talking about 90 of them very confident I've been doing these these

24:50different trades for 20 years yes very talented yes and then now the biggest challenge I think it's because like you know like everybody else is kind of finding the right basically people to do this work and training them and so because there's there's a boom in construction but there's like a lack of personnel yeah I think labor shortage is a huge thing right exactly so that's why I think having that extra set of eyes just kind of like yeah sources and also training these employees the ones that

25:24are kind of mid-level maybe 10 years experience the journeyman first SEC the apprenticeship people as well men and women because there's new methods now right for building sustainable there's going to be someone was mentioning I think either at this event or maybe before about a a you know not a red seal but a green seal knowing how to uh you know conduct maybe building envelope taxes that are really sustainable so things like that right tie into what you're what you're speaking about well like exactly because I mean you know

25:51there's there's you know now what like I said with the new energy code there's like you know our value record like requirements just like air leakage there's all these different requirements so it's like for contractors like well how you know like the designers are still responsible to kind of like meet those requirements but the contractor has to be all so knowledgeable to understand how it all ties in absolutely so it's you know it's working together and not like kind of like you know fighting each other but it's like yeah

26:20making the end result you want a good building durable building that will be energy efficient and they will be there for many years amazing well Charlene in um you know you you are in a position for sustainability with EastPoint you have a background uh you know in architectural technology you're at an event like green build Atlantic here at the Halifax Convention Centre what's your feeling of excitement for the future when you see people Gathering uh on onward to the path to Net Zero and Green Building uh with the with the uh

26:54kind of the atmosphere today well I have to say I've been involved I was a chair of the Canada GreenBuild Atlantic chapter for many for a few years so I've been involved in a lot of past green buildings and past events and you know the last one was in 2019 and from just looking at 2019 to today we have doubled the capacity of people here I mean yes people want to want to want to kind of gather because of coffee but I think you know what people are starting to realize

27:24how necessary it is it's not like oh it's a good thing to do no it's necessary so you know I've been preaching this for like over 10 years and now I feel like oh my god like people are like we have to do it so anyway it's here it's now we're already too late but like we have to do it so I think now everybody's like we got to do it so I feel a little bit more positive that people are kind of like want to do

27:49it but now we're like oh we have to do it so I think I think we're getting there like slowly it's you know it'll take time but at least now people are listening and they're like realizing yeah this is not a nice to do it's a must do right amazing well Charlene thank you so much for taking some time with us here today and I really appreciate it all right well thank you for having me nice to meet you Danielle quick shout out to the newest sponsor of

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29:38podcast here on site at the BuildGreen Atlantic event at the Halifax Convention Centre I'm joined here by Willem Paynter with EMCO Applied uh will and thanks for stopping by for a few minutes to chat yeah thanks for having me it's been quite a day lots of great speakers and conversations would you agree yeah yeah did you get out to any of the I mean I wasn't able to take in any of the seminars but I've heard some feedback we're kind of stuck here at the booth uh

30:04you know doing lots of interviews but I've heard that they were they were great how about yourself uh well we have a booth as well but I did manage to sneak away for a couple and yeah so tell us a little bit uh about EMCO about the products that you rep uh sure yeah uh so EMCO started out as a plumbing and HVAC wholesaler we've got over 200 locations across Canada in The Maritime Provinces we rep we're we function more as a manufacturer's rep so we rep the dike and applied line so

30:38we sell products HVAC products for commercial and institutional buildings uh as small as you know a single mini split up to a 2800 ton Chiller right we do custom air handlers water source heat pumps right self-contained ERVs yeah package rooftop units with an installation element as well for the business or no it's purely yeah yeah so we're getting some different lines or mainly yeah we have a handful of lines we also rep system air okay uh which would be like uh ERVs uh also air handling more of a modular air

31:16handling unit and uh again rooftop rooftop ERVs and we have a couple of ancillary lines as well okay you know fans girls users all that sort of things and we partner with our plumbing location to do stuff like pumps right what's your pulse right now on uh you know supplying some of these mechanical contractors in Atlantic Canada for installation and things like that for just the industry and and different product lines are you finding that uh you know we're going to be looking at some new products that come in some

31:51products that are current that might be outdated as far as like our path zero that kind of thing what does it mean for business uh yeah I think the big conversation right now is around uh I think there's also an inverterization piece of that pie that's uh that's coming up more and more uh VRF is a huge uh experiencing a huge Boon in the Halifax market right now like a lot of the multi-rest products or projects are going with with VRF in terms of new products um yeah I would say that VRF is

32:30primarily the the big takeaway from from that uh so we we rep Daikin VRV or VRF uh it's everybody else calls it VRF I can calls it VRV they were the first to Market in 1982 which stands for variable refrigerant volume kind of a mini split that uh or a ductless system it can be deducted but it's a basically a a lot of indoor units to one outdoor unit uh without necessarily having duct work or without running hydraulic piping or anything through your building right so that's a really big player in the

33:06market right now sure uh was that kind of your question you mentioned yeah kind of supplying people I thought we were going to touch on supply chain issues but yeah conversation for another day well exactly I mean I think well it can be I mean supply chain issues I think across the board uh you know since 2020 and all the things that happened since then are a big issue how do you find Logistics now uh looking ahead depends on the products it depends on the products yeah it depends on the building

33:34that's being priced the contractor what um totally a lot of variables right absolutely in terms of uh uh inventory we invested a lot in inventory as soon as the pandemic hit we saw kind of the writing on the wall and we brought in a lot of stock so we have a lot of stuff and in Halifax we have about combined a hundred thousand square feet of Warehouse that's stock full of stuff um you know the lead time issues really come up when you're doing more custom built to order products so a good

34:08example of that would be like a custom error handling because of all of these various supply chain issues you know shortage of truckers over filled ports commodity price increases shortage of microchips you know getting a container freighted from China costs 30 times more than what it did in 2018. um all the culmination of that has resulted in and labor shortages due to covid you know at one point there was uh 25 of factory workers in the states were not on the on the shop floor because of covids yeah

34:47and this is the thing we look at Labor shortage a lot within our media which we're kind of on the the front end of construction and what I mean by that term is the contractors General Contractors the builders yeah but on the manufacturing side uh the labor shortage problems is a very real thing at all right absolutely it's going to bleed into uh you know the supply of various manufacturing absolutely yeah so with an event like today a company like EMCO wrapping the lines that you do in the

35:19mechanical HVAC realm what's the feel you get uh you know for the goal today and the path to Net Zero uh any kind of thoughts that kind of just sum up what it's meant for you to be here and and some of them it's been a great conversation to that yeah it's been a great networking event uh health effects is a relatively small community for sure when you think about industry so it's great to like reconnect with people it's great to meet new people and it's you know I think it sets us up for

35:47a a great 2023 with all of the connections in this industry awesome well yeah I hope your time appreciate your time and stopping to talk with us for a few minutes thank you we'll uh we'll hope that some of our audience members are are some contractors and some other kinds of people that might reach out yeah for sure thanks a lot man thank you cheers cheers welcome back to the Atlantic Construction Podcast we're here on site at BuildGreen Atlantic Halifax Convention Centre and I'm here with uh David Squires from

36:15Rothoblaas David thank you for taking a few minutes to sit somewhere thanks Dan I appreciate it yeah so uh it's been a great event um you were just mentioning that you were over at the booth with the guys from uh Atlantic WoodWorks absolutely and it ties in with Rothoblaas kind of initiative when it comes to mass Timber and you're providing all kinds of Building Products Building Technology fasteners for that realm kind of give us a little bit of the overall uh Spiel on Rothoblaas well you're the only uh rep

36:45here in Atlantic Canada and this is this is a manufacturing company that's worldwide and based in Europe is it yeah it's uh we're based in Northern Italy um for the past 30 years we're privately held company uh currently we're in 72 different countries so you know we have a we have a global footprint and Mass Timber has always been the the roots of Rothoblaas and uh and in those 72 different countries unlike Canada and certainly unlike Atlantic Canada Mass Timber is it's tradition it is right it

37:19is and and we're starting to see it yeah it's creeping its way into our corner of the world in Atlantic Canada yeah and slowly much surely it's every year we're starting to see some increases in the number of projects that are coming out and um you know if if the industry is able to to stay on budget and and work with the engineers and all the design people yes um projects come to fruition and they happen yes so it's our job and our role as as manufacturers and Distributors to make

37:56sure that happens and to keep everybody pulled together and when that happens we see projects go up and and with that is great for our sustainable economy and and and what we're trying to do for our carbon Net Zero uh footprint so it all ties together and uh we're starting to see it as growing yeah so David like you know you're spearheading uh things for Rothoblaas here in Atlanta um you know it's it's a unique Market um so other than Mass Timber and that's kind of like one of the core kind of uh

38:29features with with Roth and blast and the products that you're providing uh what are some of the other areas that you're selling in for Building Products as well on the building envelope side or Roofing Products different things well right now we're uh we're having a lot of conversations and we're moving a lot of product with window installers right so we man we we sell a um different types of window tape for for air tightness and membranes are are are big right now because even even in the non-passive

39:05um uh people are looking for more of a breathable type of house instead of like back in the 80s when there was the r2000 house which was buttoned up super tight yeah that no longer really exists now it's all about breathability and with that comes high performance membranes so you need that to you know to to offset the balance of moisture coming and going out of your house and same for your roofing system yeah um you know you need a you need a good quality barrier underneath your roofing system to allow

39:36the same type of thing happening right and uh soundproofing actually now has a topic of conversation with engineers and Architects because not only traditionally would you use systems to in your walls and your ceilings now it's about vibration and and and and we offer many products to to help alleviate that right so we're talking about like maybe the ceiling system isolators and things like that that one yeah for the most part and um a lot of it too would be um like under the Wall Systems um under under slab and uh because

40:17people don't realize as much that even under concrete you're still you're still absorbing and getting a lot of vibration so but traditionally it's always came down day into dollars and cents and wherever somebody could cut a corner they probably would but we're really seeing a change now yeah and we're starting to see we're starting to see the difference in what people are willing to invest into their uh into their properties yeah you know David I feel like when it comes to high performance high performance Building Products uh you know you're

40:50dealing with something that's highly mass volume and logistics for manufacturers to sell all over the place all over the world not just in North America a company like Rothoblaas probably safe to say not maybe not very well known in Atlantic Canada right now if you're the one only ones spearheading this sort of division you're right absolutely yet very well known in very many parts of Europe where a lot of High Performance Products come from for sure where building methods are far different where Mass Timber is is not the norm but

41:21it's everywhere you're right and I I attended to show um a couple of weeks ago in Bolzano, Italy and it was a high performance type of type of building supply show and and what you're saying Dan is dead on correct the Rothoblaas is as a household name in the construction industry in Europe right and we've been in Canada now for uh seven years and and we are doing well um Atlantic Canada is a new market for us but I think you know even that is it

41:54has to be an achievement thinking about a business-wise because such a different culture it is uh than Europe I mean just I'm only saying that on the experience of traveling and spending some time in the UK and in Italy in Rome like you know it's not just a different culture I mean the way people do business is far different it is far different and it uh in Europe they seem to be a lot more accepting of uh new ideas new construction methods and so on and so

42:21forth what we're accustomed to here is well my father built it that way yes and he his father built it that way yeah and then when I'm showing these people uh an air barrier which costs three times more than what they're used traditionally paying it's a tough sell for you it is you're in a tough spot I know I know so that's why it's so critical and crucial for Rothoblaas to find the right customer at the right time with the right project and you know with but it's

42:49not the product that's the issue I mean you're dealing with a product that's been around high performance I mean you're you're sure and confident with the product it's just about kind of making that connection with the with the future clients it's the mindset and the mindset yeah that's yeah that's what we we need to do and and that's what we're fixing across Canada and the United States we're relatively new into the United States as well and and making some very strong strong strides there and uh but you know it uh it's coming

43:15and it's coming a little quicker than I thought it would actually which is which is uh which is nice because I I've I've taken companies new to Atlantic before and and built out the business and I think the timing is right for for the products that Rothoblaas is selling in Atlantic Canada so nice and uh you know we've mentioned some of the different building envelope products that you sell uh you know Mass Timber Just on that note I mean you know whether it's Fasteners or part of the

43:43mass Timber installation process um what's your hope as far as the market here the small steps we're taking Atlantic Canada for some newer Mass Timber elements and buildings I think you know the art center that was planned here on the waterfront that got postponed or on hold or what's happening with it but there was some Mass dimmer involved there there's we had Atlantic WoodWorks talking about a project down on Cunard Street Fowler bald and Mitchell's involved with so when you have a pulse like yourself uh what do

44:12you think the timeline is before we start to see some more mass Timber projects happening here even in a school or in some institutional buildings do you have a feel for that at all it's happening now yeah and and what we're seeing now we're seeing a lot of talk and a lot of activity and you mentioned like some projects were scheduled and and they they really got rescheduled or canceled or whatnot and whenever that happens that's traditionally it boils down to budget we're over but over budget so but

44:44the conversations we're having now we never had five years ago so everybody wants to talk about it the Architects the design firms the engineers everybody knows really starting to embrace it and talk about it so it's embracing right now if there's no talk about it there's no activity right so that's very positive for extremely positive you know and I think if we see next year seven to ten half decent sized projects that will start come to fruition that'd be fantastic but we will have conversations about 30. I mean it's the

45:18odds of the numbers right and and that's okay it is and billing owners are now becoming a lot more open to talk about it and and look at the possibilities and the options of mass Timber opposed to five years ago they wouldn't even consider it I'm gonna assume someone like yourself Dave you've been around doing this for a long time I have and you mentioned the open-mindedness uh that ties into the event we're at now I think in closing like to be at an event talking about Green Building Net Zero

45:46the pathway there with sales people reps like yourself with Builders with installers with uh you know people from non-profit sufficiency Nova Scotia passive house Canada I think for someone like me kind of a millennial um you know I think there's a lot more open-mindedness and collaboration in the industry would you agree with how long you know with how long a career you've had and with with the experience that you have you see a lot of positive change as far as open-mindedness in the industry as a whole I have in the

46:16industry as a whole and dang I've really seen it really quickly in the mass Timber which in other Industries I've never seen it move this fast before and it's uh it's exponentially yeah so it's very very encouraging that this is happening and you know great for our economy great for our future and uh you know great for our Global footprint amazing well David Squires with uh with Rothoblaas thank you so much for your time it's nice that we got a chance to chat hopefully our audience members who haven't heard of

46:48Rothoblaas will get a little bit of a background uh on on the company on the and the products and we can uh send them your way with some tags online and who knows maybe we'll see it we'll see on the podcast sometime in the future great look forward to it Dan thank you cheers man great thanks hey welcome back to the Atlantic Construction Podcast uh on site at BuildGreen Atlantic at the Halifax Convention Centre I'm joined for a few minutes uh by Chris Petit with passive

47:16house Canada of course you're in the technical side thanks for taking a few minutes to sit and chat with us oh yeah well pleasure to be here um can you kind of to our listeners who maybe aren't so familiar with passive house Canada um a national advocacy group for Education within passive house is that to kind of how you can sum it up yeah so uh you know we really promote high performance buildings you know across the country both in residential and commercial buildings we have a lot of

47:48um building types that are passive houses so it can be a misnomer but generally you know we have offices we have you know our fire hall we have you know our dealerships and things like that included exactly um so institutional buildings as well University buildings dorms Etc so maybe for context can we differentiate defined passive house the term uh compared to Net Zero yeah so generally you know Net Zero is any building that if you add an upper Noble energy you can get to Net Zero right right input output

48:23exactly and so we really want to get down to um be as efficient as possible with a renewable energy renewable energy is expensive to produce its way uh cheaper and so economically it makes sense to to do the the Energy Efficiency first and we focus on the envelope of a building that that envelope is going to last 50 to 100 years right instead of you know maybe the mechanical systems uh you know our other systems of the building can last 10 20 years versus you know invest

48:53in the envelopes the airtight envelope all the aspects of the building the assemblies Windows finishes roof yep I mean uh so we we have that super insulated super airtight construction you know we we look at our details make sure the thermal Bridge free make sure all the Junctions don't have gaps in our insulation or air barrier and then uh you know we make sure we have a good indoor air indoor air quality good environment on the inside so we have heat recovery ventilation so we get that fresh air but

49:26we don't get the penalty you know for just exhausting that air after we condition right is there any basic standards or variables uh numbers data you can throw out there just when you're talking about passive host to be to be certified or classified as passive house um what does the envelope need to look like what's the R value what's the you kind of give us a few of them yeah um I mean depending on the climate you know like a cool tempered climate would generally be about R40 envelope

49:57all the way around yeah and you know for a cold climate generally like an R50 but the passive house standards really Performance Based it's not prescriptive it doesn't say you have to have you know this much for the wall this much for the roof this much for the floor for insulation it really lets you have some flexibility in trade-offs so um as long as you hit it's different yeah as long as you hit the performance targets you can uh you know have trade-offs maybe you have a little bit

50:23more window area and you add a little bit more insulation here there or you want thinner walls so you add more to the roof or floor that sort of thing okay so traveling here from Toronto Chris as a member of passive house Canada at an event like this in Atlantic Canada what's kind of going through your mind as you're at an event like this you see Nova Scotia Power here we see contractors see lots of agency reps repping renewable products LED lighting all kinds of different Avenues and

50:50perspectives on Net Zero um what are your thoughts on Atlantic Canada not sure how familiar you are with the with the territory compared to I mean we have got a different climate here than Ontario a lot of landlocked areas here lots of moisture in the air uh you know lots of bodies of water around lots of precipitation things like that high winds all that kind of stuff yeah I hear you uh you know it it's a great event um it's exciting to see so many people here that it's sold out lots of interest

51:18from all the different people coming to the conference and I mean we're looking at buildings as a system if we're going to get there for high performance we all need to work together and we need the components we need those skills uh skilled trades we need the designers Engineers Architects and it's all about working together and I really like the collaborative nature of the community um so there's there's great work there's great passive house Community here and good projects that have been going up and as it seems more and more people are

51:48coming to this area you're going to need to have even more demand for it wow that's great uh thank you for taking a few minutes uh Chris and talking with us thanks for making the trip uh from Toronto where she saved travels back and uh yeah it's great to see lots of people from out of Province uh from central Canada at this event and advocating for Net Zero so great all right it's been a pleasure thank you thank you welcome back to the Atlantic Construction Podcast uh we're here on site at Bill Green

52:17Atlantic at the Halifax Convention Centre and I'm joined Now by Tim Duguay with rework Business Solutions uh thanks for taking us a few minutes to chat with you Tim thanks for your time uh so yeah tell us about uh your agency uh you're repping a lot of products you're in the the office interior space uh just yeah give us a little Spiel on your business uh so I've been in the rep group now for eight years specializing everything goes into an office and all my manufacturers are manufacturers that focus at one

52:43element so when we first started talking we talked about Easel Board yeah Easel Board only focuses on acoustic Solutions and that's kind of the fun thing so what we're doing here today is showcasing the other a product they offer so you've Easel Board which is made of sixty percent recycle water bottles and it helps with that absorption but they also brought in the new biophilic aspect using quiet Earth moss and it's a preserved Moss that goes attached to the Easel Board to kind of help liven up the

53:08office spaces okay so how does the how's the Moss as a as part of the materials work because that's the kind of like dead in the sound waves is it uh 100 yeah the idea is you think back over the last course of a few years you have these open offices so you just had Acoustics bouncing off everywhere yes so you add the Easel Board to create the absorption and the nice thing about the quiet Earth Moss it's a softer it's a more green way to kind of help in the

53:31office absolutely and for our listeners in what in the industry or outside theaters I'm not familiar with Acoustics like you know when you're talking about theaters you're talking about places with high ceilings uh you know how important the acoustic factor is in the design all kinds of different panels and whatnot to pick from and easel boards is one of those lines that uh that gets a lot of attention right well that's why actually one way to bring it up and think favorite restaurant anytime you and your partner or friends are out at

53:56restaurants how many times have you sat there with that headache because you couldn't hear the person across from you yes so a lot of these restaurants today are opening up these fantastic restaurants great food great service yeah but there's no opportunity to actually have a sit-down conversation because the sound is bouncing so hard yeah for sure and I feel like in this space right now I'm not sure uh everything's involved in the design but this for this convention space is pretty good uh when it comes to sound because

54:21we're sitting here talking there's hundreds of people behind us behind the camera and uh you know the noise is at a good level right accessibility it's the nice thing about like NRC ratings and NRC that's correct but that's we need to know let's be honest when they built this place they probably did not want to have carpet they probably wanted to have met because it ends to be polish and gorgeous but that's a hard surface yeah so that's why you have the soft surface on the carpet and then you have the

54:41panel wall behind us that's going to add that Acoustic sound now and that's why anytime you're dealing with projects that don't have those options we slide in there with Easel Board to provide a proper solution so there's so many projects throughout Atlantic Canada right now that are now coming all specified with Easel Board that's great and so for our listeners anyone tuning in so you mentioned you know 12 different kind of uh silos or 12 different lines that are all kind of in different uh different

55:06lines for office space whether it's acoustic panels and then maybe you know chairs tables maybe in some of the different elements involved in the office space that you have covered in all your lines yeah so all my manufacturers focus on that one key element so example in Nightingale they've been making chairs for over 100 years right one of the more well-known Canadian companies and I try to focus on Canadian companies as much as possible but Nightingale provides some of the best task chairs they CR the chairs

55:32called the cxo it's known as the most comfortable chair in the world it's fantastic I have one in the showroom I love showing off and then you have a manufacturer like Borgo borgo's manufacturer also in Ontario but they make Stadium seats so you're typical right now there's a bunch of different tenders on the street or you think about universities yeah think of those auditoriums Auditorium settings you have the tablets amphitheaters exactly and the cool thing about Borgo is they have a new product called the Omni Evolution

55:56so you think of any of your listeners right now who are left-handed they were told that they had to always sit on the left-hand side of a theater because that's where the left hand tablets were yeah so Borgo created a new a new product called the Omni Evolution which uses a tablet from the table behind it so therefore the left-hand people don't have to be isolated to left-hand side they can sit wherever they want yeah wow I mean it makes me think you know I was somewhat involved in the the new Dell

56:22Art Center down at the Rebecca Cohen the new theater and just remembering some different Arts projects theater projects that we worked on and when it comes to seating when it comes to paneling when it comes to sound clouds and sound panels and you know all kinds of different architecture for these different designs uh you know and and same thing goes for office spaces there's so many different uh partitions and and desk units and and chairs and models and stuff like what the thought that goes into it and the unique uh

56:50lines that that are that are provided by these manufacturers right it's just it's fascinating and that's nice about working with like a lot of the great Architects we have in Atlantic Canada or designers they actually start thinking that through yes and it's always it's good to use experts to understand that element yes exactly exactly so right now in the in the market uh in the city here um as an as a rep you know wrapping all these uh these specific products for for office spaces uh what's your feel what's

57:19your pulse for or the market right now where it's headed you know everybody's saying you know we're we're crazy busy these are good times um for you specifically uh what are you excited about what are the challenges um Supply chains definitely caused some issues but that's everywhere is that lead time and costs or other issues as well both lead time and costs you have situations in Montreal manufacturers are now getting staff yeah it's been really rough on though like my manufacturers are based there um for the most part the supply is now

57:46coming back to normal again using manufacturers that are Canadian based are very helpful making sure that they can do everything as they can uh the fun thing for me is because I represent Atlantic Canada you're dealing with four different markets all in different situations like Newfoundland is doing fantastic right now I can't get over how busy they are but it was surprising okay but then you have Halifax where it slowed down recently so and then your brothers are starting to pick up so that's the fun thing about Atlanta

58:10Canada it's all these ups and flows that are going through the industry and so for your entry point and to you know be involved in a project are you spending most of your time staying in this part of the circle and more macro something to talk to Architects you could expect on that project are you talking to contractors to educate them on uh the products and what they could be using in lieu of for an alternate or you just kind of a little bit of everything 100

58:34education basically sums it up yeah it's been a little bit of everything it's just helping people understand the best solution for this project making sure that they're getting the client what they actually need yeah that's one of the biggest focuses right now awesome well thanks a lot for taking the time Tim to chat with us and we'll look forward to to seeing the progress and enjoying the rest of the day here at BuildGreen Atlantic thanks so much thanks okay welcome back to the Atlantic Construction Podcast here on site at

58:58BuildGreen Atlantic at the Halifax Convention Centre and I'm joined by Cameron Benedict with energy Network Services uh thanks for taking a few minutes to out with us man yeah thanks for having me Dan I appreciate your time and uh like I gave your flowers a bit earlier I appreciate the Pod and learning more about the industry around here and you know soak up as much as I can through osmosis as I'm driving around or stuck on the bridge uh exactly it's nice to uh you know learn about all

59:26the different companies that are you know building where we live we appreciate that our team here and yeah just the fact that we can uh shed light on people that maybe aren't here all the time or just trying to get to know some some familiar faces and names and the company in different companies within the industry so that's that's great to hear uh Cameron tell us a little bit about you know your background and uh about energy Network Services uh so we got electrical contractor national wide

59:53you've got a teams here in Atlantic Canada yeah so we um we specialize in LED lighting retrofits uh so we have a team of contractor or a team of electricians and technicians um that'll you know design a plan to help save businesses money by converting their older Lighting Technologies to LEDs so for example we've done a lot of indoor sporting facilities from tennis to soccer and the savings are substantial a lot of the times um so your team is involved in the design phase of these retrofits for

60:31these existing buildings in tandem with an architect or as a client coming to you directly so we have we have a team of Engineers that actually yeah will take care of the design will come into businesses do a little assessment literally count every lamp every fixture take photos extensive audit it's actually free so it's like complementary audit and that way our team of Engineers can take a look at it and you know help understand or understand what your energy usage is what your lighting maintenance schedule is and from there we can provide them

61:10like you know a little return on um proposal that shows hey if you switch you know all your lamps to LED not only are you going to improve your lighting but you're going to reduce your energy and lighting maintenance costs by you know XYZ right so all of a sudden you have a building that's 30 40 more sustainable absolutely yeah and like that's not an unreasonable number right um we've had builds that became you know 57 more energy efficient which you know for some businesses that's that specific example That Was Eighteen

61:48thousand dollars a year in Energy savings to go along with you know much less maintenance from you know literally switching out light bulbs so yeah it's great and we uh so it's fun saving people money is always nice uh you know improving their environment and and their space while also putting money in their pocket it's uh it's pretty fun to you know you're bringing value on a lot of different levels right exactly yeah so we we work uh well with Efficiency Nova Scotia I don't know if you can see it or

62:20I guess it's applied so what are the benefits of being a preferred partner with with efficiency I mean there's lots of them out there maybe a little context on how that partnership is is elevated your business yeah it's been really great I mean from the training that they um online whether it be like free training or subsidized that's been excellent of course I mean helping out with the rebates has been huge so for you know a small business or even any business medium larger it's not easy to do a full retrofit uh you know

62:52it can be quite expensive so you know having those rebates are crucial to helping businesses you know compete on a you know provincial or Global level um so yeah they've been in incredible resource for you know marketing training and also of course just you know the rebates and um you know lead generation as well so we're educational side right yeah exactly yeah so Cameron you you mentioned uh your your head office in Richmond Hill outside GTA is that where you're from personally no so I grew up in uh in

63:28Halifax just outside in in Sackville right so yeah Sackville Nova Scotia I love it love it um so you mentioned you know your your crew your your team in Atlantic for energy Network Services you're doing work you know in Nova Scotia New Brunswick yeah maybe not so much Pei Newfoundland over there but I'm sure yeah we've done some work there it's just uh you know a little bit more travel involved but um we've definitely had some successful projects in those areas too are there any projects maybe

63:56locally or New Brunswick in the HRM that you were able to mention uh recently that you've carried out for these LED retrofits so you're focused on LED and Lighty control right that's amazing yeah absolutely so yeah one um it was a tennis facility the Albany tennis facility in Fredericton so yeah did a full LED retrofit for them indoors uh so it's in indoor tennis complex we do do outdoors as well but indoor tennis we actually improve their lighting by 287 percent so they achieve the I'm going to forget the

64:35acronym but it's like the United States tennis level you know with sporting there's different levels of lighting lighting's so important right yeah I was going to ask before you mention that maybe a good segue must be some pretty specific specs on these kind of Lights do you recall what what they were or just to have the right playing atmosphere the right yeah exactly so the more the higher um the more competitive the league uh of course yeah the higher standard of lighting if it's going to be filmed and

65:03there's you know different standards or higher standards that have to be met so yeah we took them up to the um you know the standard that they were looking for which actually yeah it was just under 300 more more lighting and it actually ended up reducing their energy consumption from their lights by 57 so they get the benefit of having you know higher standard of lighting and they actually saved I think it was about eighteen thousand dollars a year on their energy bills so yeah it didn't it didn't take too

65:35long for them to to get the return on um I mean it was immediate with the quality of lighting but then yeah they're they're saving money on um energy bills and also lighting maintenance costs so they're very happy and uh yeah as a sports fan myself I always particularly like working in those sporting facilities because you know I'm always just interested in you know anything that does that has to do with a ball or a pucker I think we can all relate to that in the industry

66:08one of the funnest Parts is when you're involved in a project that you know it's going to be used but for something that you're passionate about whether it's a hockey rink and Arena yeah a new a new Fitness complex tennis courts you know the same idea so that's pretty cool yeah absolutely is so an event like this uh where the focus is you know BuildGreen Atlantic here at the convention center in Halifax with you know Net Zero and just you know everyone's Focus being on Energy savings and you know less carbon

66:34Footprints all kinds of new materials Renewables you mentioned something about uh EV Chargers is that something that you see uh you know included on most newer major projects now an EV unit for charging yeah and stuff like that because that's the service you provide as well right absolutely yeah so it's gaining a lot of traction and um you know more and more companies are getting asked themselves to include it um whether it's an apartment building or a commercial business and you know sometimes it's it's quite easy it's

67:10every parking spot or is it like you need what you think it'd be cold where you hey you need to have for every 100 parking spots yeah I think yeah I think you nailed it I think it's ten percent I don't know if it's I don't actually I don't think it's code here yet but we're seeing in other areas of the country and the United States where it's The Sweet Spot is probably like you know 10 to 15 20 of parking spots at least have to have the infrastructure ready for the EV

67:36charger to go in so any new builds in some places have to have you know the conduit and the wire ran okay um just the future proof because it's always much more efficient too yeah it's harder to dig into existing concrete for sure so yeah well listen uh thank you Cameron for stopping by for a few minutes anything else you want to touch on just to kind of get out there for energy Network Services uh for awareness or um yeah I mean we do all sizes of

68:13um I like to promote that we all we do all the boring work so we we get pre-approval for um you know the Efficiency Nova Scotia rebates which are substantial right now right and yeah so we make it as hassle hassle free as possible um it's a free assessment so costly nothing we come in for a day we count we get it pre-approved and then we come back to you and say you know this is it if if you want to go forward with it perfect we can do that if not there's

68:47not really any um you know consequence of that either so sure and so uh in closing an event like this where you can feel the awareness you can feel where you know where Net Zero is really in the Forefront of everyone's thinking um how does that feel for you for the future with these led and lighting control uh retrofits I'm sure that that's a positive thing yeah for your business and your service absolutely I mean it's great to see everybody here I was actually previously in the Solar

69:18industry which uh which is also you know

69:24industry to be in and a lot of great people and so I'm I'm very optimistic about what the future holds I mean LEDs and solar are actually essentially the same technology just on the inverse um they're both silicon Wafers that have uh you know little diodes so the technology continues to improve and you know I'm on the end of saving energy and you know solar other Technologies are coming along that produce energy that don't emit carbon so I think we have a lot to look forward to and personally

69:57yeah I'm very optimistic about the future and our energy resiliency and uh yeah I uh I'm happy to be here and it's always interesting to to learn and talk to people that are you know engaged in you know making our environment more comfortable to live in absolutely absolutely well thanks for taking the time Cameron and for sharing uh some of your thoughts with us I appreciate it yeah thank you appreciate it okay welcome back to the Atlantic Construction Podcast uh here on site at BuildGreen Atlantic at the Halifax convention

70:29center and I'm joined for a few minutes by Dale Hume with Thermtest Dale thank you for taking a few minutes and stopping chat with me thanks for chatting can we start by maybe just a little bit about your background personally in the industry and then a little bit about Thermtest sure uh we're at a Frederick to New Brunswick our company is 18 years old we manufacture scientific instruments that measure thermal physical properties of materials how they conduct heat so we're here to just learn more about

70:57the space of the building envelope and efficiency of insulation and use in those buildings okay we have a new technology that we've licensed from NRC to measure the R value non-destructively of low slope roofs flat roofs so what it allows the uh user of the instrument to be able to do is to put it on top of a building and measure non-destructively so you're not cutting into membranes you're not currently what they do is actually cut sections out of roof and test them in a lab obviously that's not

71:30desirable because you break the envelope so non-destructively testing from a flat roof what the R value is with the idea being that you have its new performance but how does it change over time how does it change the degradation of the insulation or the effects of assembly or the effects of moisture was it assembled in the rain does that affect the performance of that insulation over time time there's a there's a knowledge gap of True Performance of installation on low slope roofs which there's millions of square feet just in Canada right and

72:04the performance of that so this gives the knowledge to the building owner to make decisions to add more insulation or to renovate replace uh it gives them a number for that performance because that's a big decision for building asset owners right is it replace is it repair I think it's a three hours right yeah whether or not and the cost difference and the longevity of their investment and the drivers are different the drivers are economic or you want to reduce waste there's a lot of drivers that now are more important than ever

72:33and there's the amount of waste through the building uh roof is unknown really but he rises so if there's a 10 in our value of a of a roof insulation versus a wall you're going to have more of that effect from the roof because he rises yeah and it takes the simplest path so the effective degree nation of insulation or the degradation of performance is measurable so that the smart decisions can be made whether whether you add more or replace and even on new buildings such as verifying

73:06performance that you purchased right for for that installation yeah that's so important users are Architects and designers uh building maintenance for federal provincial Municipal uh owners of large square footages of buildings that want to maintain a certain efficiency there's a wide range of uses yeah and I feel like the roof especially I mean the whole building envelope but the roof in general especially such a big part of the building envelope the air tightness the quality of the building yeah which ties into why we're here you know Net Zero uh

73:38energy efficient green buildings um you know when you're talking about uh you know these low-pitched roofs is that the term that you use low slope low slope we're starting we say flat but the proper terminology okay so you're you're dealing with testing on a lot of bitumen Roof Center multi-layered multi-layer installation of various types some here some here and there's many more than that so this testing method this new testing method uh how is it different in lieu of older ones that would affect there was no

74:12older ones the the older ones were simply a physical inspection yeah and and more than that um simply a physical where they open up the roof they open up the roof and look for change in thickness but they don't measure any real R value the only way they could get R value measurements would be to cut a section out and take it to the lab which happens very infrequently so it's interesting in our discussions with many sort of stakeholders in building envelope if the roof doesn't leak water

74:40it's fine exactly right that's that's that's the Milestone part of the building exactly right and they're just going to get somebody they keep paying the bill do a thermal test that they have to yeah which happens very infrequently so they keep paying the bill like we all do because you're not really knowing uh but if somebody came along and said you know you're paying 50 more in energy because of this thing and here's the number that shows you and in you go out and engage in architect on

75:08design to give you the plans how to make it better how to change that back to an existing our value or a better a higher it's knowledge especially on so many big retrofits that are happening and yeah commercial institutional buildings across Atlanta definitely um yeah I think about the heat loss and the Energy savings through the roof assembly so this this technology um for uh therm tests you're selling this technology to building Sciences groups to as a product to use for testing uh to building owners asset

75:42owners that's the plan so the idea is that we make this tool available to those that want to understand the performance of a building so that can be engaged by engineering firms that can be engaged by different levels of government that can be engaged by designers of buildings why not roofing companies roofing companies of course especially those you know those assessment groups that assess based off of other already existing means of efficiency of other building assessment groups out there absolutely calculating lots of things and we've seen a sort of

76:16a why cross-section approaches across Canada right which is very interesting so and then you have sort of even the manufacturers of installation and other components that are used in a building right they're going to be they're going to want to know how their material performs long term in situ yeah that's the difference the the long-term prediction models are used Laboratory Testing that's not the same as a building that has two feet of snow on it or has a certain amount of rain or has temperature Cycles on and off yeah or

76:46any number of sophistications there's a lot of people here at this event from central Canada how generally is our climate oh yeah for a roof especially yeah then British Columbia it's a landlocked Province right yeah yeah and all the humidity changes or you have a damaged roof that has water ingression for three days right and you seal it back up you seal the water back into a closed system right and that water just moves top and bottom depending on the delta T that affects the performance of

77:14everything that's inside of it from an R value point of view so in addition to just measure the R value of a roof yeah it could potentially be used for detecting certain areas improving the manufacturing process maybe 12. yeah awesome yeah certainly the assembly the the on-site assembly the impact of maybe assembling something in rain as an as a one example right and so you mentioned Thermtest uh head office in New Brunswick yep Fredericton uh kind of a presence throughout Atlantic Canada as far as our you know we're we're an

77:47export company the nature so the nature of our business is global we have an office uh an owned office in Taiwan for so we have thumb test Asia which looks after our business in all of Asia uh we they work on our behalf to make our products known in Asia and then we have a Thermtest Europe which is located in Sweden we have key people in each of those locations they do the same for all of Europe we have that in Latin America for Latin America

78:14would you say like how big of a company are we talking about here in people-wise yeah uh globally approaching 50. so a small company still yeah uh we have found that given the specialty nature of what we make right we need the expertise all these mostly technicians and Engineers yeah as well as business smart business people we have super talented group of all levels of different backgrounds uh we have a very unique facility in in Fredericton all of our manufacturers some of the specifics it's very fitting we have a 15 000

78:48square foot building it's all ICF Construction I don't I'm not sure if you know what that is of course but that's uh three inches of foam and six inches of reinforced concrete and three inches of foam this whole envelope the whole envelope is ICF 14 foot yeah walls you know I've seen another commercial building is a brewery on the Bedford Highway here that's full ICF wow and I hadn't seen that on a commercial building it's Unique I've seen because of the investment right yeah yeah that's right all of our lighting comes from uh

79:16borrowed light so they're they're 12 inch tubes that go to the the the roof okay and brings the sunlight in so we are building we have Windows But A reduced number because it's a highly efficient building highly efficient so have you achieved a a certification with the building we've actually sort of from this meeting we're learning more also about that area so I'm very tempted to bring one of those companies that do

79:44and provide for other companies a slightly different way but I think it fits so I think I I think we would perform well our power bill shows that yeah given the square footage right yeah so I I think that's something we will probably do yeah and so you're manufacturing there the the product for this technology for testing amongst other products related thermal physical properties so we our company in general measures uh how materials conduct heat everything from fluids used in automotive and electric vehicles to Composites used in manufacturing of

80:17polymers so across the board right uh worldwide so we're in the in the ICI construction World other than the roof technology for testing for our values and insulation yeah are there some other key points in commercial construction that you're kind of focused on with we make a line of heat flow meters heat flow meters are a laboratory version of measuring our value for a 1 foot square and up to four inches thick piece of anything so we see wood Composites we see insulation on organic materials that

80:50people are trying to do more green versions of what's available commercially constantly and we're very that's thrilling environment because it's so Leading Edge people are very creative with what they can insulate with yeah uh this takes that the newspaper and seaweed right I've seen corn husks and yeah and and jeans uh ground up jeans there's a wide variety and you know what some of them are pretty good performance yeah it's not just let's try it some of them are very unique and good insulators and they'll find a spot you know I mean like they'll

81:22find people that want that product so I think that Innovation is pretty amazing and spaces timing is good this takes that same capability and takes it and puts it on a roof that uh that gives knowledge in a in a way right now isn't being generated so it's pretty cool we're excited to be part of it yeah this is great before we call us anything you want to touch on behalf of Thermtest to kind of bring awareness or just your general thoughts on today having so many people

81:49from so many different backgrounds for a common goal to work yeah I think it's a good show for us too especially the maritimes we this is a Canadian technology where it's Canada first so we're we're engaging as many levels of stakeholders as we can this is a great place to meet a bunch of those all in one place so and I uh the the the creation of uh awareness of it activities like this do that yes and I'm kind of an old guy in this business uh

82:19and and getting into that and understanding the power of much of the stuff that you need to be able to do to get things known nowadays it is powerful so what we're trying to still do good science and good measurements right that's first but get it known so that when we in in the first year we're looking to just engage its use and make sure we're making good science measurements that we can stand behind and that the product does what it's supposed to do and let the rest follow because I think this

82:47knowledge is useful so this show is good to talk to a bunch of people that are interested in what we do so yeah we're excited to uh to just get a little snapshot a bit of light to our audience but yeah thank you so much thank you for pleasure talking pleasure as well cheers so much welcome back to the Atlantic Construction Podcast uh here on site at BuildGreen Atlantic at the Halifax Convention Centre and I'm joined uh for a few minutes uh but Roxanne Tate with

83:13Tate Engineering thanks uh for taking a few minutes to sit and chat with us Roxanne I appreciate it you're welcome it's great to be here today yeah it is it's been a great event lots of great guest speakers and good to see so many different uh perspectives and backgrounds from suppliers to installers non-profit educational motives and organizations uh here talking about NetZero and Green Building can you tell us how how you started Tate Engineering and what was the goal to get it off the ground yeah yeah story

83:51I've always had a passion for the environment environmental sustainability and doing my part to reduce my my load my carbon footprint and when I was starting my family working out of the home became a little more challenging I wanted flexibility by the time my third child came along we decided that I decided let's you know I'll do it I'll start a business right and so is that one of the reasons not to interrupt is that one of the reasons that sustainability became in the Forefront of your thinking or was it

84:25always there would be having children thinking about the Next Generation it was always there their children and thinking about what does the future look like for them absolutely without a doubt and that's what drives me every day to get up and do what I do so I thought about what are my skills what can I do what am I good at and what's going to have an impact and energy management just Rose to the top and so I started the business uh doing Energy Management doing energy

84:52audits multi-unit residential affordable housing applications and it just it grew from there right because when you're passionate about what you're doing and you're doing it for good reason it's easy to build your business right it's easy to talk about it it's easy to sell it and Green Building is you know it's it's here it's now yeah that's amazing um we talk about energy audits you're an engineering firm can you tell us you know what that led to what the business has evolved to at this point and we're seriously and

85:25heading within that space of green sure my husband's also an engineer and he's been in the construction industry since he was 14 years old and got involved in project management we saw a lot of synergies him as an owner's representative and me as an energy manager doing work on owner's behalfs trying to help them with their operations and he's looking at the the building development side of things and it's all connected and so we you know every evening we have great conversations about what goes on in our

85:55business and the synergies between that was huge um so engineering design and the building process and the operations right and so we're always feeding each other and making sure that we're giving our clients the best value and thinking of you know not just what is it going to cost to build your building what's it going to cost to operate it as well and integrating those decisions into the decision-making process and that information so having that skill set Under One Roof has been really valuable yeah yeah I feel like you know

86:27you're looking at building Assets in that term as an asset talking about the longevity of a building some people might be thinking you know this product lasts 25 years but you know these buildings realistically it's like it's 60 years it's maybe six years minimum yeah you know the cost of operation is far higher most of the time I think than the cost of building definitely so you're looking really far new on what products are being used energy consumption what are the main points you're focused on with Tate Engineering

86:54as far as mechanical systems is in uh you know the building envelope uh I guess you know there's a few big ones that everybody's focused on but well I always go back to First principles and I think of reduce reuse and recycle right so the very first step is to reduce demand first and foremost right uh get that building envelope insulated to the optimal level make it airtight because then you're going to have a durable structure as well if you do those two parts right you have durability and you have that

87:23longevity in the building life cycle so that's really important so that's where we start is reduce and then right size your Mechanicals right make sure your occupants are comfortable it's a healthy environment that's really critical as well a lot that goes into that right absolutely uh you know different mechanical systems different units different methods yeah it's such a such a vast Arena it certainly is and there's such a wealth of knowledge out here in the province of Nova Scotia in those fields and architecture and mechanical design

87:54and so we look to partner and bring those people on board to work with the owners as well like-minded individuals who are going to help make those decisions and do things a little bit differently maybe think outside the box um you know for someone like yourself we've started this with a lot of different motives involved Tate engineering one for you know that's your background and that's your business and your livelihood it's also a big part of the business is to play your part in green energy in reducing your carbon

88:25footprint and Net Zero path to Net Zero also for your children in the Next Generation the passion you have when you're at an event like this and you see everybody gathering with the same goals and motives in mind collaborating and stuff how does it make you feel um for the future yeah I'm excited I really am to see how the industry has grown we've been in business for 11 years and to see see how the room has filled up compared to when I first started to come to these types of events

88:51yeah it's just amazing it's inspiring it's motivating tell us uh so when you first started to come to events like this say in the last say decade period or five ten years you know we have hundreds of people here yeah and at earlier on it was much less right just just absolutely you almost knew every face in the room right it's and it is a close-knit community and what I like about it is even though it's grown so much people still know each other and they're willing to collaborate that's

89:20what's really cool about it yeah that's amazing it feels like we're on the right side here in the province uh for for this huge issue that is here now um appreciate you taking the time you want to you want to plug or anything you want to mention uh in closing for Tate Engineering just for awareness for people who maybe haven't heard of it oh I mean yeah sure I could throw a plug in there but really what I'm all about is promoting doing the right thing right

89:49making our way to Net Zero and doing it in any way that works for you right not everybody's going to have the same solution there's many ways to get there and I just want to see more people doing it okay great well thank you so much Roxanne it's been a problem it's great hey welcome back to the Atlantic Construction Podcast we're here on site at the Halifax Convention Centre at GreenBuild Atlantic and uh we have our guest today Vinicius Correa yeah uh from Atlantic WoodWorks um thanks for stopping by Vinnie for a

90:22couple minutes to chat with us oh no thank you thank you very much for for listening to us a little bit and yeah so just tell us a little bit about the goal of Atlantic WoodWorks and uh what's the what's kind of the mission statement yeah for the organization well we are uh not from profit organization and our goal is to promote and educate about uh what uh specifically for uh non-residential and uh multi-unit uh projects so we speak with uh all the stakeholders Architects Engineers government and we uh try and infiltrate

91:05the design process at that exactly exactly so we provide um technical support as well so if people oh I really would like to to build this with wood we think it would match her project we think the the in our budget on costing and it looks great but I have this challenge with code I don't know really how it goes with adapt so we have like a contact with the the code specialists in Ottawa so we would like uh try to help in any way that we

91:38can to make the their wood product happen right right so so when people hear wood uh you know if our listeners maybe are not as familiar with the industry or familiar with Atlantic WoodWorks you're thinking two by fours you might be thinking woodworking might be thinking Cabinetry and Millwork uh Mass Timber maybe just kind of explain you know within the realm of wood and buildings uh you know what area are you most concerned with that Atlantic WoodWorks it's more the the structural side of the wood elements exactly the

92:10buildings right yes exactly our main focus is for wood as a structural uh so we have the the usual uh the dimensional Lumber would that would comprise the your regular two buys two by four which by sixes so with that you gonna have like as it's called a light wood frame in and uh for in lots of cases this might be the most cost efficient way uh way of so if uh and recently on the 2015 National Building Code uh now you can go up to 60 stories of of

92:51uh light wood frame construction so that's how you see the it was a little kind of a boom of a mid-rise building's uh six stories with uh lightweight framing for the past two or three years and that would be in lieu of say like structural steel or concrete or concrete exactly so we um it's usually faster it's usually like it's a technology that's way ingrained in our culture already so it's very cost efficient for for a region uh and there's also the mass steamer um Master it's uh it's a technology that it's

93:36we're starting to hear about it like not too long ago but it's been there for a while especially in Europe it's a very developed uh in Europe and but now we are changing our building codes we're adapting for that new kind of of Technology right and mest Timber is uh when you have a wood element and glue it together to achieve the the best uh properties that you need like strength wise and and resilience and and everything related to that yeah I mean you know it's it's there's a

94:12lot of tradition there a lot of buildings older buildings if you look around Halifax if you look around uh and I think it'd be the same for every Province you go into a lot of the older buildings downtown uh a lot of the restaurants different different uh uh social public uh spaces and the commercial realm and uh you see the open uh open exposed ceiling uh you know wood wood beams uh and Joyce and and there's a there's an aesthetic value there's uh there's a like a natural component to it

94:44yeah so it's like and I think for a while we kind of got away from that and now it seems to be coming back whether it's the code or whether it's something that Architects are considering for Aesthetics and you know all the different variables that are involved but uh yeah you definitely see a lot of Corporations having their own Mass Timber division yeah that they're developing now it kind of ties into modular a bit too because they're being manufactured come to sites exactly yeah exactly so uh we've been building

95:13uh the way we are uh for the last 80 years or so uh there's not much development in a way of like productivity or in a way of uh methods or like you the carpenter 80 years ago was doing the basically the same thing that they do these days yeah so we in order to increase the productivity and and the saving time and be safer for for for the for the worker like people who are

95:50people are looking for Solutions and and one of these Solutions are the offside construction right so we see this movement now for uh panelized uh building yeah yeah so like you are like your your walls or your floor cassettes they are manufacturer outside of the of the the construction site and so while and the same with mass Timber like Mass Timber is cut to shape and with the all the CNC Machining and it's very like tight tolerances right so and everything's manufactured like manufactured in the same way that steel

96:26would be in a way yeah so it comes to you know uh in a sense that it comes to sight ready to install so uh they they manufacture the panels they put in a truck in the order the right order the all the panels are like have the numbers and have its sizes it's almost like it's kitted it comes in a kit it's like Lego yeah and then a truck goes to the to the construction side a crane picks it up in order like in the right order that it's

96:55gonna be laid off uh laid on on the on the side and it makes like everything uh faster and um organized safer quieter yeah there's like many uh advantages like that so for a selling point and I don't just mean monetization uh Dollar Wise or currency what what a when you say you know or you're dealing with the project maybe an architect's interested a public building or a client who's interested in Mass Timber interested in lots of wood elements interested in because of the sustainability because the Aesthetics

97:29what they're considering costs they're considering uh budget schedule yeah what's the main selling points uh you know for you at Atlantic WoodWorks when you're involved in a project to say you know here's the benefits of using uh Mass Timber yeah well you touch the most uh critical points on that so so to produce the the wood from the from the the raw material to the beauty material the full carbon portion of a wood product is way smaller than uh any Steeler concrete on top of that you have the carbon

98:10offset so like a tree a tree traps uh carbon oxide on a tree uh the carbon life cycle so you have carbon in the air the Tree stores it and then if in nature and not the tree is going to fall and with time and it's going to be a deteriorator and the carbon can go to the soil and to the atmosphere again so this whole carbon life cycle when you take the the wood from the tree and put into the building or furniture or whatever product so you're

98:44offsetting that for the live time of the so instead of the carbon going to the atmosphere right now that we are in a crisis it's going to be stored for the next six or eighty years there and if you build for this deconstructions it's something that's coming up right now as well people are paying more attention to that you can reuse that in the future some in someone so as far as cost goes is it like can you make a statement on average it's 10 to 15 more expensive to

99:13build mass Timber as opposed to structural steel or concrete it's a tricky question because yes it is no and it's Case by case and but it's not as expensive that people might think at first especially right now uh after the the price of the wood during covet so was chirogyny and people say everything related to what's so expensive imagine this building that is basically like huge massive pieces of wood is going to be super expensive and at the time yes but not anymore yeah so yeah so if I'm gonna tell you oh it's

99:51more expensive no it might not be because other Beauty materials are uh are having problems with the supply chains as well it's kind of having the price increase so it's it would be Case by case but it's yeah yeah and lots of supply and uh I mean lots of demand but lots of Supply in the mass Timber realm too yeah it's a forestry lots of Canada for sure for sure yeah we have this huge uh forces sector here which is very important for our economy and also if

100:25there's the aspect like if you try to keep it here right try to keep it local instead of buying still from from from other countries as well like there's that element and and most people feel very good about it maybe down to the species of wood I mean what species typically are used in these structural laminated beams and joists and components is it uh is it Oak is it uh it's soft to Wood it's all software yeah it's all software right so where would the closest manufacturing or large

100:52manufacturing operation for Mass Timber B are there ones in Atlantic Canada like that or like maybe just smaller ones from for private uh modular companies that are trying to integrate into that space or are there some large manufacturing firms in Quebec now unfortunately we don't have currently any many uh messing with Manufacturing in Atlantic Canada the closest ones would be uh Quebec and Ontario right um and so the these manufacturing plants are taking products uh softwood from a Mill and then it's going there and then at that point

101:29they're manufacturing it into the structural components or is it coming right from the forest into the into the mass Timber plant no no they they go to a mill first yeah like Kiln dryden's similar things to what happens with hardwood or yes yes yes yes yes yeah so it's a certain humidity level all that kind of stuff exactly exactly and yeah the humidity level for engineered wood products a little lower than your regular software kind of thing or it's like 12 12 right but still much lower

102:00than like the 2015 to 19 from yes okay yeah yeah no it's very interesting so I mean a lot of uh you know a lot of people I think are into you know uh you look at a lot of bars for example uh in our cities in Atlantic Canada a lot of uh you know countertops Live Edge a lot of wood products uh yeah you know like I said before exposed wood beams uh exposed ceilings all wood Timber um you know it's a natural look there's like a psychology behind the design

102:34sometimes right where you get you can incorporate that it's not just sustainable for the environment it's not just a good way to structurally build a building but the Aesthetics and the feel of a natural product as opposed to you know in the room we're in now which is all kind of uh you know fabricated yeah exactly there's even like the a name for for that is biophilia right and back into exactly like you you mentioned like all the the good tops of it so it's uh using wood is good because it there's

103:04the sustainability aspect of it there's uh biophilic aspect of it that's the the time saving when erecting the building that's the there's the similarity like would you can build the same type of building that you build with uh silver concrete we can do it as well with a wood even if it's a mass Timber or a light wood framing you can do that you have maybe you have to plan a little bit ahead and uh change your layout because of grid sizes or things like that but you can do anything that

103:40you want so there's lots as long as you plan it lots of benefits of probably a little bit of resistance to change in Atlantic Canada as often there is it's a it's a changing on a Continuum so hopefully more people come on board is there any projects you're able to mention that you're working on now or I think we talked earlier about one here in the city on Cunard Street exactly yeah Fowler Bauld and Mitchell is an architect is involved and could you use that and kind of just give us an example

104:05to finish up on what it's what your role is in that project a little bit of info on the project yeah so uh FBM they are doing this uh residential and office mixed uh five-story uh Mass team rebuilding here in uh Cunard Street uh is listen to that now just kind of just digging the hole now or coming out of the ground at all no if you go there you're gonna be able to see the the the glue limb columns okay and and uh there's like glue lamp floors too so if any of our

104:38listeners are listening to this on Spotify or apple and they're driving right now uh yeah just take a pic at it yeah it's very interesting you can see um it looks amazing and uh so if you were able to be there doing uh erection you would see how how fast they they can put the the glulam beams and columns and and uh the floor the glue them floors on that too like it goes goes one on top of each other like Lego and it's very interesting that's great well thanks Vinnie for uh

105:15stopping by and just sharing uh with us about Atlantic WoodWorks and uh and a little quick uh kind of info session 101 on mass Timber and stuff so yeah we appreciate your time and uh we'll have uh hopefully have a great rest of the day here at uh BuildGreen Atlantic oh no thank you for having me cheers this episode is brought to you by cook Insurance your trusted insurance broker in Atlantic Canada for 50 years insurance is complex and the cook team focuses on delivering comprehensive solutions for

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