How Two Construction Companies Built Atlantic Canada's New Drywall Partnership (Soubliere-Trinity Origin Story)

0:00Our team at Atlantic Construction Podcast is excited to announce our newest partner Luminous Labs Luminous Labs is the leading provider of architectural visualizations for developers homeowners Architects and more Luminous Labs has a team of experienced designers and visualizers using Cutting Edge technology to bring your 3D renderings to life using these architectural visualizations will give you a sense of scale space and design allow you to make informed decisions about your projects before construction even begins these high-end architectural visualizations are a perfect tool for presentations marketing materials and design reviews.

0:35Allowing you to communicate your vision to stakeholders clients and more this episode is brought to you by our presenting sponsor Payzant Building Products Payzant Building Products has been providing contractors and Builders with the supplies necessary to complete their jobs since 1964. They've built a reputation of honest helpful and Quality Service serving the HRM for the last 58 years now with seven locations in Nova Scotia and one in New Brunswick our team Atlantic Construction Podcast is extremely excited to announce our new co-branded partner Procore Procore is the global leader in construction.

1:07Management software we'll be conducting several podcast episodes with Procore users and construction companies across the country in 2023 among many other things stay tuned we're excited.

1:23We were talking earlier just about your 17 years with with Trinity and you know a long time in construction even before that since you were 16 and you know you mentioned about Trinity focusing on cellulose insulation for the start obviously now doing all kinds of services in division seven and yeah maybe you can kind of walk us through a little bit of the the birth of the company and the journey yeah so 2006 is when we were before that like I said my uncle had.

1:56A construction company based out of Pictou County and he did we did a lot of work at Michelin Nova Scotia Power we did a lot of industrial cleaning services we did asbestos abatement and then the other side of the business was the re-insulation force so if we did asbestos removal at a boiler at Nova Scotia Power we were back in there re-insulating it with mineral wool or whatever so was that was that Roxul products back then too it was a different yeah they always kind of had.

2:23It had a head they've always been there so that was basically what got me into the industry to a little bit of experience and in 2006 I always knew that I was going to do something on my own and in 2006 I had the opportunity just the way life presents itself I got the opportunity to look at doing something different and I had some my first two business partners that I had they were from Pictou County and they worked with me at Michelin so when I decided to go out on.

3:01My own they they approached me to see if we wanted to team up and basically they were helping me get off the ground they they were a major starting point so we carried on we were going to do asbestos removal and and still do the industrial work and the commercial work that I did and at the time there was a little bit of a downturn and with the new business and that it was a little hard to get into was that around all eight were you.

3:30Saying or is this further early 2007. Okay right and then it wasn't taking off like I thought with the asbestos in in the other places and one night I just decided to look into on the internet I remember I was sitting in front of the computer trying to find new things to do in the industry and I found this stuff called Spray Foam so I got looking into that that night and I still remember because it was midnight and I was talking to the salesman like he's always impressed me.

4:00To that day because it was still answering the phone he's still answering the phone it's your salesman yeah and they got some education and I went up to Ontario for training and I went down to Texas for some training and we made the move we bought our first piece of equipment for the spray foam that was very scary moment for me at the time I was a 250 000 investment in a piece of equipment for one one of those that's just for one spray foam truck yeah.

4:30Really wow though not much yeah extremely expensive business to be involved in right so we got that we started doing the cellulose insulation in people's attics and existing homes just just topping up their walls and then the spray foam let us open up the door to go to the basements and and that and along with the basement with the spray foam came the fireproofing that we had to do over top of it yeah so that's kind of my little first exposure to the.

5:06Then we were words started getting out there was only three of us when the company started and word started getting out that there's three young fellows out there in the industry doing some good work on houses and stuff and a Gentleman stopped in he was driving through Pictou County one night and he stopped in and wanted to meet these three young fellas and he told us he said there's this tender coming out and he said they're looking at insulating attics and basements on on these houses he said you guys should put.

5:33Your name in so we looked it up and back then it was Conserve Nova Scotia is what who was doing the tender Conserve Nova Scotia has later become Efficiency Nova Scotia so we looked at the tender they were basically just looking for attics and walls and basements to be insulated we put the price in for it and lo and behold we won 50 homes so fast forward until now that same program we've won it every time since and now we do six to seven hundred homes under that one program for efficiency.

6:09Every year so efficiency was was a big stepping point for Trinity itself it was a great industry to be in it was good time to get into it with with everything that was going on as you mean like kind of the shift towards shifts exactly yeah exactly and the whole country was starting to look at it that way but it was in its early and what I started to notice unfortunately every time an election came up or something that was being used as a political tool.

6:42So the whole sustainability exactly and whether they're going to keep the depending on what what what party gets in so it was very yeah I remember a few times the first few elections that went on through those first few years those votes meant a lot we were scared we were scared yeah and because I mean they would talk they just there was talk they pulled the whole program away the next day so yeah so that opened me up to saying one of my one of my vice presidents that look.

7:17At Rodney Majner that looks after all every efficiency programs we had a conversation and we decided to leave him in charge of looking after the efficiency program and I was going to take the company and go back to my industrial and my commercial routes right and try to get some Reliance off that side Right, that's when you diversified into more commercial industrial with Trinity and big volume jobs yeah so but I remember Bud McClellan with Redu was one of the first gentlemen that called me he was.

7:50Building a hotel in New Glasgow and he needed the walls insulated so I went in and I met him and he he I priced a job he got me the job and I was just a young fellow but Bud was extremely good to me and he took me along with him and taught me a lot of things to do and a lot of things not to do and taught me a few lessons good and bad along the way but but crucial have somebody on your side that was older to.

8:18Make that leap eh and you know yourself with your own experience you get into some GCS they don't care about you oh No in fact it's the opposite they're there to take advantage of you yeah and Bud never treated me like that and a lot of other people they never did and he supported me that way and every time he got a big job at St. FX or somewhere along he'd call and take me along with him and got me more training and more training and the insulation led.

8:44Into doing some fire stopping for him and and then the fire proofing aspect came when he got a big job at the Pictou County Wellness Center he won that job and at the exact same time my supplier had lost their main installer for the province or for the Atlantic provinces for installing fireproofing that's another big capital investment for those machines too huge huge yeah so we got the opportunity along with my supplier that was so I I was buying the fireproofing to do the foam in the.

9:22Residential basements from them and I was doing well with them so they wanted me to expand to the commercial side of it and they just lost their rep for the area Bud had just gotten this job he needed somebody in the area to do it so it was just perfect timing for me my my supplier came in and gave me some support to help training on it and Bud was there supporting me on the GC and we got that job done it's so funny because when Steve and.

9:49I laugh about it now they when I did that job it was four or five of us there and we were there for six seven months and that was a big job to me yeah and Steve's doing those same size jobs now and I don't know two weeks and probably 10 of them at the same at the same time so it's funny to see just but I mean you had to learn somewhere you had to start so we get into that and we started doing more and more of the fireproofing and.

10:17The fire stopping and such and I always was into painting and stuff like that so that led into the intumescent coatings and yes soft with the fireproofing and then it gave me the opportunity where we were getting big enough in Halifax and I did some big jobs for Dexter's out at Otter Lake facility and I started doing some big jobs around here and so were those industrial jobs for Dexter's yeah yeah that was it was one of their which is where you see those kind of in this and heavy on.

10:47The spec with intumescent and fireproofing yeah this one was the the recycle plant out there okay and there's so much Steam and yes whatever bypro yeah I mean thicker coating on the structure steel it brought at the steel it brought the roof right off the place they had to they had to replace all the main members in the building and the roof so they hired us to come in and put a layer of spray foam once they put rebuilt everything they put a layer spray foam.

11:15Over top of everything and we sprayed the ceramic fireproofing coating over top of it okay and that's it's not there for the insulation value it's there to protect the steel right that's what it's doing so that was a big eye opener I learned a lot of lessons on that one I don't know why I'm thinking of this but did you do the helipad did you guys do that one no no do you know what I'm talking about didn't they do that in the last couple years somewhere like where.

11:39The job was coming at the QE2 or something a bunch of Coatings and do you know about that yeah yeah so we did a little bit of work up there oh you did okay I don't know what made me think of that but I think I helped price that or something at one point possibly we did some joint sealants there and but it was a big spray job for it it was supposed to intumescent it was supposed to be they actually ended up getting eliminated there was now it wasn't very clear.

12:00Exactly exactly anyway sorry I didn't mean to go on a tangent there so after that it I decided it was time to open up an office in Halifax because I was basically limping and traveling every day up here anyway and at that time one of our other vice presidents Jonathan Berkman he was in the cellulose world and he came on board with me under sales but when we decided to open the office in Halifax things really took off so he became the vice president up here in.

12:33Halifax during building this area and because you're from Nebraska right yeah and once he started getting things going up here that's what opened the door up with Steve Steve and Jonathan or know each other and opened the door up the Steve came on and Steve comes from the commercial drywall world and then he it's always used to that Commercial Avenue but he came on board with us and and started helping us run some of our projects just everyday insulation and such and then with his experience.

13:07With the industrial side we started building up the fireproofing and the fire stopping as such he's a pretty steady growth then all the way through and especially probably lately maybe the biggest jump I remember 2012 I think was a 700 percent growth and that was that was just a any profit left it's funny how they say you're growing so much but the money not necessarily your bottom line yeah but I'm sure you benefited from the fruits of that in the following years oh 100 yeah yeah and so.

13:41For the longest time we we stayed well I guess just right up until before COVID we were average and consistently 75 80 employees and really since COVID but now it's we've come to the last year we've well I think it was a year year and a half ago we were still at 85 and now we're we just we just hired our 125th so wow so it's been congratulations we'll ride and a crazy ride but it's it's going good and amazing this is what's brought us to here today yeah no.

14:15Thanks for sharing that Dwaine I mean for you Steve must have been I mean a bit of a transition but pretty pretty smooth transition I bet from from the drywall background and Industrial stuff that you were involved with into Trinity and how long ago was that when you came before I'll give you a quick little rundown my story's a little not complex but a little little crazy I guess so I was in when I was for all of us exactly so at a high school I had extremely high.

14:43Marks I had a full scholarship to go to UCCB the end with CBU now okay and I went there for two years I was going to be something in the medical field my sister my mother nurses I thought maybe I'd be a doctor or something along those lines okay two years into it I'm like yeah the same for me so I decided to take a year off to figure out what I wanted to do I was working as a stock boy and Sobeys at the time and a back shift manager's job.

15:12Came up in Sydney Mines I said yeah I'm off for a year I might as well give it a shot right so and that's where you're from okay yep I'm from just outside of Glace Bay Old Town called Birch and yeah so I I took that job sales went up six percent in the first six months and in the Sobeys world that's pretty big essentially it was pretty simple map to me keep stuff on the shelf for people by the stuff and.

15:36You replace the stuff so yeah very simple formula they offered me a job in Truro for to be a grocery manager and I was 20 probably 21 at the time I guess it would have been and I said well why not let's let's give it a try so that's how I got up to the mainland Nova Scotia anyway okay so I came there with that and now I didn't really like what I was doing there a whole lot at the time and.

16:00The Sobeys game I think there was a dead end eventually there so I great company to work for by by all means but yeah you know just that position it was in my life at the time there I had to make a change and the store one of the store managers her husband and I got along great and he was former for a large drywall company okay so he was asking me online come on I needed some apprentices and stuff like that I'm like I come from a farm I can.

16:24Hammer nails and fence posts but when it comes to screw guns and stuff like that I I don't know a whole lot right so he convinced me to to leave and I started at the trail hospital I was actually I started with him so we were the first two starting at the trail hospital this was 2008. I think it was somewhere around there 2008 yeah and I can still remember the first day I went out there to screw a clip on one of the studs or.

16:48Whatever and you know not knowing anything I didn't hold it tight enough spun around got me wide open right so first job site injury essentially yeah three days in so you write it up I can't remember to be honest with you so I remember going for wings that night but piece of duct tape yeah essentially yeah so Elery McMaster was the foreman at the time and he he's one of the smartest individuals I've ever worked with he taught me the trade essentially I.

17:15Was very lucky usually a lot of people get in the trade they start on the board and they start on that side but I started with the layout and the steel and I learned t-bar I learned all that before I actually probably hung my first 200 sheets of drywall oh yeah you were a lucky one to get to get in there and get get to learn that from those guys exactly so I I worked in that trade for seven years I started looking after some work towards the end of it and.

17:36At the time it was I didn't know if I want to do it either right so I didn't know if one to sling drywall the rest of my life right so it's hard work my Jonathan Berkman that me and him know from each other were actually cousins or whatever so he was the vice president he convinced me to give it a try so I come on board with Dwaine in 2014 and yeah I mean I went from doing everything from insulating attics to.

18:01Helping in the warehouse to learning scheduling into some operations different things like that and then I think 20 probably 2016 I think it was commercial started growing a lot more and we noticed that okay we gotta put some Focus here so 2017 I think it was a slid more over into the commercial side of the business and yeah we've we went from you know doing a couple of jobs a year essentially to I don't even I couldn't even count to be honest with you we're.

18:34Probably a couple hundred anyway yeah so the structural fireproof and the spray foam and that just really taken off a lot of the high rises here in Halifax doing the spray foam and okay and the fireproofing like polyurethane spray Foams that you're talking about now like that's something that you kind of worked into the is that something you always did or just recent recent years yeah the spray foam ways yeah I've always done I've always done that the polyurea Coatings were starting to get.

18:58In okay for waterproofing yes yeah yeah so yeah no that's and then I guess as that grew I started looking after Halifax with Dwaine there so now I became a vice president about two years ago so yeah that's that's the quick story of how I got to where I am it's hard to sum it up in a couple minutes isn't it it is this isn't your first time in front of the microphone either you forgot to mention your your experience with the.

19:27I may have done some color commentary with he's got the voice a good friend of mine Kyle Moore he's with CTV News now but yeah no we did some color commentary with them well before the the drywall days will say that much no that's great thanks for thanks for sharing that Steve and Karsh we gotta we gotta get to you lots to chat about Soubliere Constructors in in based in Ottawa give us give us the the down.

19:59Low here crazy story as well now that I look at it I moved to Canada in 2014 September from India okay graduate from civil engineering 2014 when you started with Trinity I graduated University of Ottawa I don't know I'm from India okay from India okay I'm Canadian now but I immigrated the first time I sat on the plane my life was to Ottawa I thought Toronto was the capital but came to Canada I worked and I graduated in green architecture at Algonquin College great program.

20:34And then I was looking for a job and back in 2015 is when I graduated the market was really really tough for anybody to get into construction it was it was very stable Market but construction is different right it's very different and so I was looking for a job and this random fellow drops into my messages on LinkedIn offering me a junior estimated position not offering asks he said your portfolio looks interesting let's chat it was Mr Andre Soubliere that invited to chat with him in in November 2015 so.

21:07Almost eight years ago right so I looked him up there was no website it was a small you know it was it wasn't big on marketing I believe so I asked him what the company was all about so he told me to drywall company so I went at online I Googled what what is drywall how do I take off we do construction exactly right so and the program that I went for Ford GC for wall assemblies in India more more so than like stucco.

21:34Steel concrete you know and break masonry but they don't use chips a minute they do they do some they have started to do it now there's actually if you were to do pound to pound the light gauge LGSF industry in India it's bigger than Canada I'm pretty sure that's interesting don't quote me but it's quite quite a big volume now but it was being used more into like big structures corporate in certain parts of the country yeah not where I was from I'm close to Delhi.

22:03Anyhow so and and when you go to school they teach you the theoretical part right they don't really teach you what's happening yeah on site like when I was in school for sustainable energy and stuff they were telling how we can put straw bales and and use them as insulation and when you get outside it's about is it pink or is it not you know yeah so once double the price once not yeah so so I go in for interview I get the job and.

22:27Andre you know he was in his mid mid 60s at that point polish gentlemen super smart comes from the trade 30 some years into the business already and right away he says you know you're not a I don't want you to be a junior estimator I want you to be someday be a project manager so why don't you come on another project coordinator and I'll find another estimator no problem right so anyhow so pretty High Praise yeah I mean I was surprised because I was supposed to.

22:56Start and I come in and right away this gentleman that hasn't hired anybody in a long time because he's running a very smooth show it's you know it's like River Stones it's all no edges it's just running it's smooth complex commercial jobs and right away he hires two people so he was all complex commercial absolutely no residential no residential just major projects major projects you know working with bigger players like PCL right like not even he's not he knows what he wants yeah and right away he hires two individuals right and he.

23:25Hired an estimated retirement plan well I guess I guess and he has an estimator who's now our senior estimator so to both of our in the company anyhow so he hires me and and he has a great team okay so he's got 20 guys all of them performance so 10 to 20 guys but all of them journey man because all the jobs that he has it's not about the volume it's about the technique right you can go away wrong some of the projects that he had done at.

23:50That point like my first project was Royal Military College in Kingston they were doing eight buildings without a stone and that's where I got trained so right away I was dealing with DCC well eight buildings on the campus not the college yes so so and it's a DCC building it right because it's a defense right so right away my training started on dealing with ls Don and DCC and eight buildings on the campus a building campus so and three right into the fire there exactly exactly but the team was.

24:17Great you know you know the supervisor that he had at that point amazing guy he teached me he taught me a lot of things and and estimated in the team so I just started learning you know from there and and I still remember every year I wouldn't even have to go to him he would come to me and be like supervisor no no Andre would come okay I think we need to have a little chat right so so you know he was somebody that really mentored me and.

24:38And I started I started learning quite a bit from him and I grew the company from Ottawa we started and I said Andre like I think we can do more so instead of just you know doing this little job so I grew the company from there to Ottawa to Kingston became local Belleville went a little bit towards Sudbury and we grew the company and I became I went from project coordinator to Project Director and then covert hit and we were what's that just joking I don't know what we call at that point.

25:10But we were doing all complex commercial jobs most of them at that given point were fit UPS right and right away they told us I don't know the rules were a bit different here in Atlantic part of the country but in Ontario no commercial work was to be done okay total drop dead silence for three weeks so I'm sitting home for three weeks and this was what you were hearing yes no the government told us no commercial work stop only only work to be done in Ontario was and.

25:38That did in fact happen that did happen we stopped for three weeks so I was sitting home for the first time in my life I didn't know what to do because there was no there was no waiting we didn't know what was supposed to happen right yeah so anyhow then we by this time I also had very good relationship with some general contractors right because I was working with them all the time and and the jobs were complex it wasn't like we were bidding against 20 people you know we were a lot of times.

26:01Just a few Specialists we were designing it we were servicing it and the areas because I'm helping with some of the design as well absolutely with these GCS on the Interiors absolutely okay yeah so like we will create the job with them we'll go service the job with them right so you're involved that backstream absolutely and then you have bidding on the job job too and we'll get awarded the tender or just kind of almost like usually it doesn't go for benefits design build but sometimes it does and.

26:28We are involved in that so budgeting design build design as well you know we can we can design it with the with the architect engineering record we have our own Engineers who even designed the job so so it sounds like you you really got involved with a really good commercial wall and ceiling drywall company there right because not a lot or that sophisticated no we were we were not at all about volume we would even touch residential we were just like the more complicated it is we were more.

26:51Interested right so COVID would happen and then I got a call from my favorite contractor but my favorite contractor and the gentleman said to me I have a job for you and two jobs for you and it needs to get done now and it was the Province we're looking for a team to deliver a 70 bed field Hospital that had to be built in like a couple of months our scope was supposed to be finished 70 bed hospital transition transitional hospital to be built in.

27:19Like three months and so was this steel stud job with just cheating and all that everything yeah so they were basically Excavating demoing building stuff as we go and designing and planning like okay we had our electricals plumber drywaller demo guys on site 24 7. So we were not we were not waiting for change orders we were like okay this needs to be demoed called the demo Guy this is how complex it was and while we while we had to follow all the rules and regulations.

27:45Building code and design on fireproofing everything right so I get called to do this job and little did he know that I'm not even working right now because we're shut down so I said I'll manage it so we start we started working on this massive Healthcare project and then we're doing some work for Procter & Gamble in Belleville so we're building their new 90 million dollar expansion because they shifted their plant from doing I think they were making women hygiene stuff at that point at that time and still kind.

28:13Of focused on everything outside the GTA almost yeah yes GTA so I would say would be down so which is but not you're not you're not to the core in Toronto you're Ottawa and Ottawa Ottawa yeah right yeah correct so the furthest we've gone is would be okay we're just so busy but most of the work even in Ottawa was always out and complex so we always had guys that were used to traveling used to going to new cities yeah so so that that happened and we did that big job and then I realized.

28:44That Soubliere needs to focus more on health care more on defense more on jobs that that will be there because you know we had our skills because that's what's coming down the pipes right yeah so and then once that happened we started getting requests for you know what's down down the pipeline right you know bigger projects coming up I got more involved so I said I think it's about it's time to make move and went and I and I offered Mr Soubliere if I can buy.

29:09Him out and that deal happened in 2021 Mr Andre Soubliere still involved in the company he's the CEO he looks at laughter looks after quite a bit of estimation for east coast and for Kingston and and we just started from that we grew and grew we moved to Sudbury Timmins Kingston Belleville Ottawa Quebec and we went from doing work looking after for work in next two three months to booking work for next three years and then and then there was a strike in Ontario union union strike I.

29:48Decided to buy the business in 2021 right before the strike no no there's more stuff that happened I bought the business I said great decision and then metal stud went up 120 all right yeah yeah steel pricing and I'm on all the jobs where you can't get any increases so Kobe happens still says one's up and goes up or drywall goes up insulation goes up Carpenter strikes happen first time in 25 years in Ontario and Only commercial so then I said okay too bad too sad but we have to make some.

30:21Moving residential as well and we ended bringing in a fellow named bat Baker that's that's our VP for residential so you Diversified right away right away well we were talking we were flirting for about a year but I said it's about time because what I also saw that with COVID we also realized that there's event shortages of of houses multi-res multi-units right like I was talking to a fellow from yesterday I was in Sudbury in Ontario and they big they make the biggest Aboriginal.

30:49Home housing yeah off Reserve yeah and they said Ontario needs 22 000 homes as of right now units to even meet the Demand right just for the indigenous Community yeah right so so let me let me clarify just for our listeners because we do have lots of listeners from central Canada some from Western but Atlantic Canada one just just terminology Wise It's all insane residential you mean multi-unit residential probably 50 60 units or higher as well yes that's not homes no no but unit like multi-floor yeah yeah.

31:23So we we saw that some of our clients started to get into low-income housing developing these rental units so I said okay if these big players are going into it they need player like like us to come in because we don't only just do drywall we can also do structure we can make com slap structures Can Am structures where where our steel studs is a load-bearing structure yes that can support you don't see that happen very often no yeah maybe it's happened on a few small builds certainly in Canada.

31:50I've seen it somewhere in the South End of Halifax but just on like a two-story it's getting there it happens a lot in the states it happens a lot in Ottawa too absolutely they can you know on stage can put up a building in two months not even in a month right and but it's happening lot in Ontario because there was a wave of long-term cares that were coming in retirement homes and they were using quite a bit of these systems because because of the shortage or the.

32:11Price of lumber or was it shortage of Labor you know you eliminate basins to an extent you're eliminate structural steel you eliminate concrete to quite an extent right yeah if you're dealing with one trade so so the load bearing structure came in into place so at what gauge are these studs are they 16 18. It starts I've seen as low as 10 gauge to 12 gauge at the bottom so that heavy okay so you do your load-bearing walls you know you don't have any space.

32:37Between your track and studs the spacing is 10 inches eight inches 12 inches yeah but as you go up it stops right and and then you also get to do the pan on top that's you and then somebody comes in and pours the concrete quick shout out to the newest sponsor of the show The Stone Depot the Stone Depot is located in Bayers Lake, Halifax but serves all of the East Coast a showroom over 8 000 square feet perfect for masonry contractors Landscaping contractors Builders developers regardless list of.

33:01Stone Depot is a great option for you whether you're doing fire pits patio stones kitchen and interior Stones so if you're looking for a great Stone supplier visit the Stone Depot this episode is brought to you by Airtight Spaces Airtight Spaces is Atlantic Canada's first authorized Aero barrier dealer they help create comfortable healthy and durable living environments with the added benefit of Energy Efficiency air sealing is a critical step towards net zero buildings using air pressure to automatically guide sealant guarantees the highest quality results in the least amount of time with.

33:29The least amount of effort if air sealing is important to you you can visit Airtight Spaces at www.airtightspaces.com Pivot Bookkeeping is your One-Stop shop and customizable bookkeeping tax and filing service with pivot you have the Peace of Mind knowing your taxes are always filed on time and your bookkeeping is reconciled often using their non-proprietary software and applications all of your business finances are securely handled by their local account managers pivot takes great pride in providing you with unlimited support and a direct line to your account managers right here in Nova.

33:58Scotia whether you're an established business looking for new options and increase efficiency or a newer company looking to build a solid foundation for future growth pivot has a product that can be modified to your needs consider making the pivot today book a free consultation at pivotbookkeeping.com right so and what the beauty of this was you know the it could be done between the GC and a drywall it goes through a lot of chop saw blades in there yeah exactly and so so those starter comes I said we need.

34:24To make a move so I was talking to this fellow named Matt Baker who owned Western Drywall a company in in Ottawa had a good name you know they were not they were not doing a lot of work but they would do bigger jobs so like one contract six million seven million dollars right away right so we started talking and then we decided to join hands so he came on board and you know we we current currently we have about 10 million dollars of work already just in.

34:48Residential we're doing a 251 unit project right now in Ottawa that's a big one and we bit quite a few here in town so he's leading that so we're in residential now as well okay and that's a before in a nutshell well in a nutshell if we were to Define us we would be a complex commercial defense retail industrial residential and we follow wherever the work is and the more quality over quantity kind of business yeah and growing and then we met these beautiful gentlemen yeah.

35:25That's a story on its own that's the story we're we're here to tell yeah so yeah I mean you know for our listeners too I mean you have a solid company like Soubliere Constructors based based in Ottawa throughout central how long have they been been established there before you came along is that like so it's been total 38 years right so that's creating business right so that's a pretty pretty good name pretty a lot of time to establish a reputation and the beauty is that the.

35:55Core Company is still there right because right they're still involved yes the beauty that happened was they were already used to doing these work out of and everybody was a journeyman so what we did we took the that basic of the company and grew around it right so we didn't have to we didn't just we didn't grow vertically we didn't go let's take the biggest job in town and grow yeah what we did was spread into these little cities take on the small jobs take on the headaches so we.

36:21Diversified in terms of small jobs we took on a lot of small jobs right slowly you know a couple of years yeah we decided to grow organically so even though we are in all these towns we don't have traveling people we have all local Manpower local connections so even in in in East Coast right now we're completely local we'll have one or two guys come by once in a while but from from the Ottawa region because what we don't want to do is what is happening.

36:49To East Coast right now with the major infrastructure projects and and in general is that the money is leaving the province because the bigger job comes in and people come from abroad across well yeah I mean labor shortage is pretty pretty serious pretty serious and but the labor is distributed right what do you want to do is you want somebody to come in that keeps the business here So eventually people get interested and and seeps into it you want people to move from other provinces here yeah you don't.

37:15Want them to come here for a couple months so that was happening with smaller towns of Ontario same model yeah complete same model because like I said 40 yeah because your employees were traveling a lot you know might be a two or three hour drive but they're still staying up in a hotel somewhere in rural Ontario right from where they're located exactly that's still travel happening on most of your projects and the bad part about that the town was never seeing a consistent growth for the longest time because they.

37:39Will have one project everybody will come in and then leave right so and and the smaller contractor in these towns were like okay no problem I don't care I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing but what you need is that for the for the volume to stay and for that it's very important that you grow it within the community so far as for us our plan is is that if we come in here we have to get local within six months or within one year right that's that's.

38:04Always that's part of your model yes because we're going to have travel on our pricing we will never be competitive yeah right we can get the big projects but the local people will never will never ever be competitive yeah and at some point you know you can get work while it's Well everybody's busy but what happens when it slows down yeah right it's not organic it's not going to sustain itself so that that that is one of our big thing is to be local so whenever you go to these towns.

38:27Everybody's local there's a hierarchy everybody's growing everybody's growing up so a lot of our work just comes on its own now we don't have to look for the biggest and the baddest job out here to stay in the city yeah it's interesting too the story of Superior and how you organically grow it seemed like a lot of finesse involved and you know the projects you were picking to bid and then you know like you said those 20 Journeymen your core and then sure there might be 120 employees or.

38:53Whatever but that top 10 15 of your employees really is the core of the business right and then not to diminish apprentices that are coming in a second third year Journey because you need all kinds of those to spread the labor out and all that I mean that's important but you had the you had the strong core there right and a lot of finesse absolutely like you know one of the things that Steve touched on like he's he's mentoring he's mentioning his mentor if he had a bad Foreman on.

39:18Site that didn't give him attention he wouldn't be here today yeah right so and that's why we always say is that whenever we start a job or we step into a new new city we always want to make sure we send the right guy with the right temperament yeah and teach the people because otherwise nothing scares a new Apprentice then more than having the wrong you know no I'm 100 I love hearing it I love hearing because I come from a background in in that trade and you.

39:45Don't always get the most polished you know people that's pretty pretty autocratic you know and just to have somebody who who who has a little more you know teaching ability those kind of things it's tough because you know the jobs are are tough to make money on so you really have to move fast but it takes a special kind of person to be able to move a job along while having you know the temperament to deal with with people at the same time and I would say like the.

40:13Last three four years or four years has been very interesting time best time to buy a company and get into construction because construction is an intimidating industry you know you're six in the morning you got a big truck outside lined up waiting for delivery so everybody's yelling and shouting so it can be intimidating for young people it was for me yeah it took a while you know and but now you know people are getting aware and I always found that there's a big big big big sky gap between.

40:38Architect GCS and then trades in terms of the way we do our business the terms of the technology we use the way we estimate we bid and our culture most of the companies don't even have HR right so but it's changing as we go and this shortage really really was it was it's not a good thing but it will lead to great things because you know we're getting more aware everybody's concerned about the Manpower everybody's concerned about retaining the Manpower absolutely and that's where that's when everybody's.

41:09On their best behavior right yeah when they know that things can really go wrong and we have to really attract the talent and then teach them yeah absolutely I mean part of yeah part of being here and part of you know having a having a media platform too is to promote to younger people who otherwise might choose a career elsewhere that hey you know there's there's some killer jobs in this industry not just that you can make good money yes you can but takes takes.

41:34Talent takes hard work you know it's very respectable absolutely yeah so to get more into you know Soubliere-Trinity which is you know this this new company established and please correct me if I'm if I'm wrong you guys are gonna tell us all about it but you know between both organizations who still have their identity and and still have their operations separately you've come together and and form Soubliere-Trinity when the premise is to carry a commercial drywall and Interiors.

42:05Within Nova Scotia and and other provinces in Atlantic yeah now we we've seen a need just under Trinity around here like the bigger we grew when we were doing the insulation and then we were doing fire stopping and the fire proofing and some of the waterproofing on the on the same projects the more we did we were seeing the GCS were liking that and it was making their life easier because now back then it was only there's four different trades that they didn't have to go to four different.

42:35Companies anymore they stuck just with one made their life easier and all that and we even seen it on the schedule side of it we can if we come in at the same and we really notice it now with Soubliere involved but if Trinity's in there we're doing the spray foam and the insulation are such in the wall cavity we're constantly talking with super day Trinity on that day basis we're talking about the schedule where coordinating our crews together that's making the job go faster it's making it go less.

43:06Expensive Yeah it's you're combining Division Seven division nine all that all together that was for the longest time that was where my head was I wanted to be stuck in Division Seven I wanted to basically become a building envelope expert I wanted to that's the company to to promote that I mean my I my next step I I plan we'll be doing the Blueskin on the exterior the minerals or the spray foam or whatever type of insulation on that but exterior cladding with Trinity I don't know a year and.

43:41A half ago we bought Mathis Windows and Doors out of of Dartmouth okay and so that little piece of the puzzle that built along with the Trinity world where we were doing some of the bill or the building envelope but it opened up a lot more doors when zubilee came along because here is a major player in the in the industry for the installation side of it so we weren't just doing sales anymore to open up the door that we were going to start being.

44:08Able to look at some of these projects for the sales and the installation yeah so that just was one more door open for the GCS that they didn't have to deal with somebody different so we were we were dabbling at first into into this industry and we have a common connection between the two businesses it's Aries Contracting out of Ottawa and Joe Cork is the owner I guess I can say we have other connections I guess you would say that introduced both of us and once.

44:46Joe's seen that Soubliere was interested in coming east right and he already Joe is in our world in Ottawa he does the spray foam he does the fireproof he got some waterproofings probably one of the biggest up there they're doing some of the highest end jobs half the jobs you guys are on from well actually they're we're under half a job there on okay and then we were noticing down here any of the big complex jobs it was Aries that were coming down here and for.

45:17Any of the businesses I couldn't handle or get to get enough work for here so that opened up the door that Aries started talking with Trinity Steve and Joe developed a very strong relationship we started working on some projects together in the fireproofing they watched our back on some of the bigger ones that we took on and we helped them for some of the ones that wasn't so much worth their while coming down this way a we were able to fill that shoes with them yeah and the more.

45:44We got to know Joe the more he was saying you guys have to get down and sit around the table together and so that's basically what opened the door we we sat around the table talked to each other and yeah and now we're at where we're at I still remember that day Joe called me at 10 in the morning and said there's these two gentlemen down from Ottawa I'd like you to meet them and maybe go have dinner with them and yeah you know take the building in.

46:07Halifax I was like George oh I'll do that and lo and behold here we are right so no we worked with Aries quite a bit over the last couple years with COVID it was hard for them to come in so with us being here we held them on some projects and right kind of sub things to you we'll take care of this yeah exactly so we kind of watch each other's backs like Dwaine was saying over the last few years and I think it developed a great.

46:27Thing in the industry yeah for sure so it was it pretty quick when he's first met like you had dinner you go out and kind of just pretty informal kind of getting to know each other and then is it does it lead to some pretty serious conversations do you want me to tell the story or do you want to tell a story please go ahead it was pretty informal so how informal so now listen this is this is a good story so we're I said okay we'll bookmark season downtown I.

46:50Got my the my girl in the office here to book this reservation reservation and sure I go down there Dwaine was meeting me meet me but I get there first and I'm sitting there and I'm waiting and waiting and one guy comes in he sits down he talks to me his name is Matt Baker and then lo and behold I think Dwaine comes and then this guy walks in he's on the cell phone and he's wearing a Hawaiian shirt and I'm like I I didn't know what to think.

47:14Of this whole whole situation at the time right so we're sitting here at Moxie's like we're all fairly dressed up I mean he was definitely looking good don't get me wrong but you know it just it kind of threw me off a little loud we're not used to that in Halifax middle of winter wasn't it yeah well Flair doesn't have checking bags limited players getting beat up I had limited clothes and that was the only thing that was left and what was happening was Matt was in touch with.

47:45Steve and we had like meetings after meetings and it was like the last meeting of the day where you know you're just burnt out you have nothing yeah it was two days and we were just burnt out and we had just come back came back from Texas I believe no actually we were going sorry this was before and it was like one of those meetings where you were not expecting anything and Matt says hey we got to meet that Joe asked us to meet and good.

48:11Old Joe and there was no expectations right so I was like okay well I'm gonna show up and I was staying across so I came a little bit late and just walk in and I wasn't expecting anything of it and I was just like Christ like only if I would have known but so that was the first impression like right you don't wear Hawaiian hey man if you got you got through that they're trusting you then you did well and then so we started talking and you.

48:38Know there's a lot of conversation turns out we're on a lot of same job we have the same client we do the same kind of work and and we work a lot with Aries and yeah in central Canada and Quebec but then so these two gentlemen decided to came down and they came down they saw our operations we talk a little bit more so when I went to see them they opened their jackets up in the middle of the winter it's all Hawaiian shirts too as.

49:01Well so that's what we did really that's it it's a running joke now so Hawaiian shirts and winners are the best you're not making all your sight I can picture someday just look at this for a day for a joke a high was shirt almost oh yeah that's how bright it was so yeah so it took it took us a while it took us a while we did our due diligence six months and the more I looked at it and and my personal Vision was I I had done it.

49:35Before right I had I've been to Sudbury in all these areas and I know what it takes how much money it takes to even get in there and how much headache it takes right do you go in there you know in construction it's very easy to sell it's to build it's to deliver that's the most important thing right and well said and and they always say you're only as good as your last job so and it's a very complicated process so I always wanted to grow and I know.

50:02What's out there like we are gonna East Coast is about to get hammered with work that's gonna start yes there's a lot of quotes out there there's a lot of projects that have started but they haven't really started yet they're going to start soon so my my vision was that my personal vision and I talked to Matt quite a bit about it was like yes we can get all the work yes we can price it if we price ten we're gonna get one okay price 20 we can.

50:28Get one but the thing is how do we service it right in a way where it grows you know and believe it or not my entire finance department in Ottawa in the headquarters is from maritimes right really yeah so Andre's wife where are they from so I'm from Nova Scotia I'm from New Brunswick but the finance of that Andre's wife is from New Brunswick and a lot of our Manpower like key foremans are from east coast and there was a big big I'm sure you're.

50:57Aware of it but a lot of people moved from Ontario to East Coast in that time especially from construction so there was there's there's a new everybody wants to really enjoy life and get at a better pace of Life Ontario became really with the covet rules and stuff yeah it was it was a crazy place right like to put on a mask and to to tape and to be six feet away yeah it was definitely a different scene there than it was here absolutely so so people just.

51:23Like you know open up it's like hey how about this place an hour and a half away with all kinds of coastlines and beautiful scenery and and lots of work how about I go back home right so so there was attraction was there so coming back to my I always go on different tangent so my focus was yes we want to be in East Coast but we don't want to be a company from Ontario a French company from Ontario Quebec that come we want to be local.

51:52So and and I really loved their stories you know and and and I always say if you can't shake a hand on it no contract can protect you yeah so we really like their wives and Steve knew quite a bit about it and we met and we decided to to do this and yeah and we said no we're not gonna do one project or two projects no if it's gonna be all in or not so we created this new entity called Soubliere-Trinity any drywall that's going to be.

52:15Moved in Maritime and through Soubliere it will be under Soubliere-Trinity vice versa and it's a partnership and but Soubliere-Trinity the weepy of it's going to be run by Steve here while all the operations are operations estimation pre-construction support is from your office now for now for now for now you know info Manpower support Fleet it's Trinity backing us up right they've got headquarters everywhere they got what how many trucks you have on the road I don't even know 105 105 trucks.

52:53You know all provinces so you know and then for the first couple of jobs sorry I was gonna ask her the first couple of jobs that you bid were you flying a few guys out from Ottawa to do these jobs with some local employees or was it all your crew from for the first time you know it's our first job so we and was it with PCL like kind of like you had a relationship with them in Ottawa Kind of yeah part of it or so yeah so there was so you know.

53:20All the big boys out there you know that we have worked with they have their headquarters in Ontario yeah XYZ so they all they kind of have their own method of what you call it a reference check you know in terms of your bonding your capability the insurances so we we had all that system set up with all the big players so so the references came you know we started working we were started and we got the jobs and the first I we always like to do is.

53:48We like to send the boys out there from here from from Ottawa people that we know right because yeah it's a complex commercial job you know drywall is wrong you can take it down put another one but if you put the wall like six inches off from where it's supposed to be it can cause some major problems right so we will we we have we have shifted one of our key supervisors actually our main supervisor from from Ontario to to to East Coast to Nova Scotia and then.

54:14This individual like kind of has been in the company since Andre started the company his dad has been in the class that's who you have running things here exactly right so he's here like his dad worked with Andre they're the same age and then he started with the company and he's been with us since forever so this guy knows what's up yeah absolutely absolutely so he's here and while so so the supervisor foreman and key interior system mechanics I would say 10 of the job will come.

54:46From headquarters right the rest are from here well you slowly build up locally yes we are doing a job right now in Dartmouth with the with the green machine and all the employees on it are local wow okay and find signed with the Union Local Union United States absolutely absolutely while the supervisor is from Ottawa what's the differences in the drywall Journeymen and rates and stuff as far as the Union Ontario and here is just a few bucks higher kind of thing or what's the big gap or.

55:18I don't know yeah I'll have to ask my but there's different definitely a pay difference for sure yeah but you know with your key guys there's that so they're sad yeah you can't can't do that so I I wouldn't know the difference to be honest the wrong person to actually oh it's probably a few bucks I'm just thinking I should notice probably yeah it's not it's it's very regulated so I wouldn't see there will be a big yeah so that's that's our philosophy.

55:48For now but you know Steve Steve's doing an incredible job we have a job we have a job down in wedge board right now that we're working on right we finished a project in New Brunswick depends on engaged Town it was a more tours doors and hardware is installing okay and we did a small little job at the Halifax Airport okay for WestJet so you've been Soubliere-Trinity has you've been doing drywall work in Nova scholarship for the last six months or a year then yeah anyway.

56:17Even before that Trinity has a small residential drywall division right so I don't know probably what two years three years two years now I think it is yeah yeah it's it's quite the it's not there's another story if you want to hear it I guess so I Dwaine here was renovating this house at the time and put an addition on and lifted it up and I said well I'll I'll help you hang the drywall that was my trade so I went down there put the tools on and Dwaine.

56:44Sun Bailey gave me a hand and you know a few other people that we brought in and I remember at the end of it I'm like we need to find a taper so call one of my old employers I said can you send me can you send me a diaper down he said yeah no I we can send you taper but we got these couple of guys from Ontario that moved down and they're down there and picked them we got no work for them so he was like why don't you just.

57:04Call him directly and you know see if he can work something out with them so we got a couple of quotes they came in they quoted it cheaper than everybody else we decided to give them a try and okay came in and they did well fantastic job fantastic job so Dwaine and I look at each other and we're like I guess we probably should hire them I guess so so it started with that opportunity but hard to find good tariffs when they slap you right in the.

57:28Face yeah exactly and then turns to find out they got a large family and they seem to all do drywalls and they all seem to live in the same facility so we hired seven or eight of them now we got and they're all intertwined some way with the majority of them so yeah whether they're cousins or family or yeah different things like that originally from Newfoundland so it's okay nice for them too yeah they're making their way home oh that's great it's great when that happens eh it's.

57:53Just kind of organically and it's value both sides and everybody yeah it was a part of the business when I was growing it when I started not seeing the change because I was attracting people from Alberta to come home to work for me versus a few years before that we were losing a lot of our employees that were running to Alberta so yeah it's nice it kind of felt good when you when you had that opportunity to start interviewing people to say like you know I can give.

58:16You a job to move home to and and you can leave the big Alberta and and be equivalent to a salary down here or whatever yeah that's great so it's it was a good feel moment at the for sure well the next five years is going to be big for that here because because there's a lot of big projects oh yeah they're they're on the move and I think it's a very good time for the province to attract these people back yes because yeah like I said.

58:46I had about 20 30 people in our in our company that were from East Coast right and and all right working for you in Ontario region is this build up it's a it's a bilingual City so a lot of people from New Brunswick were there yeah and Noble School shared quite a bit Toronto has a lot of Nova Scotia people so yeah and Tradesmen good great Tradesmen they just want to go back to have consistent work yeah that's why they moved to Ontario so I so that's why our big.

59:12Pushes is that so I'll tell you the gravy or the secret sauce basically what has happened in me taking over Soubliere here and us coming together as is that in the past five years constructions got way more complicated right you know no more while 95 of the trades are estimating using PDFs right there's information out there where you can look at a 3D model you can get your quantities you can price something yeah but half of the but but 95 of the people.

59:43Are pricing of PDF and the second they get a job they're like what did I miss right yeah or there's yeah they're still using printed drawings in a pencil absolutely it's an Excel sheet so the contractor is like I I know I know a sub is great he can do the job but I can get the paperwork you can price me he can't give me changeovers he can't give me a core paperwork or paperwork or as Bill so how am I going to use them right if.

60:07You don't if you don't get paperwork on time you can do the job start documents you can't get on these projects so the Gap is immense and this is where we kind of came in to fill that Gap right yeah where so and you were talking about you know how we are together with divisions imagine this you have the GC you get one price where you have to write one subcontract for your doors Hardwares Windows Millwork drywall paint fire proofing spray proofing yeah imagine the.

60:38As opposed to six to eight different Subs you know yeah one that's like two or three less trade meetings two or three less checks two Elite three less billing invoices it's a big value prop for the for the GC or CM or whatever the scenario is and we all miss things I'm gonna mess up a job you're gonna mess up a job and GC is gonna mess up a job but if we have a lot on the plate together we can work together towards a solution and now picture this.

61:06We all know there's not enough manpower we all have to bring Manpower out of town to come and do a work now spray foam guy is doing it drywall guy is doing it window guy is doing that we all are paying for different guys to come there while all of them can work together and share the work so all of us take guys from the same Union so if you're on a job that is out of town because there's a lot of work out of town within Nova Scotia that we have to.

61:31Go and do it and we have to pay you know travel allowances but if I have a supervisor that can supervise a drywall and when he's caught up can work with the spray foam guy I have guys on site that can prep for the fireproofing instead of working on drywall because we are going to get caught up there's no there's no project where a dry water can stay from day one today last day there's there's not like that right you're switching them on a different payroll or.

61:55Just carrying right through okay it doesn't make a difference right and and you know assist with whatever we can so it takes away a lot of cost supervision is a big cost especially in complex commercial jobs supervision is one of the biggest costs and if we and that's where the labor shortage it's just as hard because you just can't find those guys with that kind of experience they're not just coming out of the Woodworks yes well and on that note and we need to be breeding them too.

62:20Absolutely that's one of the biggest things right so we are we are working right now in in so I'm also I used to be a president but I'm a I'm a trustee now for Ottawa walls and ceiling centers which is a TD a trade Delivery Agent where we train apprentices to get into the trade okay so and and I've just engaged and I also sit on I'm the chairman for the Casey Kingston construction Association for trades so I'm I'm a young guy I yeah you're 30.

62:48Right I'm 30. I immigrated to this it's great to see someone like yourself in in the trade thank you someone from with having a background like you know to be Innovative make it's great I'm learning as I go and and then what I realized was that a civil engineer will start at what forty eight thousand dollars now when I started it was it was very very tough to get a break 48 65 whatever you get right you started right yeah but if you're in if you're in the trades.

63:18You can make that money right off the bat yeah and more and more and more and we need people in trade so and what I'm seeing is that because I see because I'm a Canadian I became Canadian recently a year ago not even a year ago August last year like that's quite a grueling process right yeah yeah but five to eight years like from some current recipe for PR yeah something like that well PR after PR you become Canadian so I became right citizenship right two years ago.

63:46So so I know the process how how tough it is and what I just realized is that all of the construction company even a small construction company they have a lot of purchasing power right we deal with the real money with the real money real real materials right there's no it's up front we have a lot of purchasing power we can hire a lot of people but we're not at all tapping into the immigra in the immigration programs tapping none of us have HR none.

64:14Of us have a good website even including us our website is subpar wherever you go to a retail company or something they're excellent at this right the ads are out Billboards are out so no wonder we have Manpower shortage we're not making anybody aware of what we can do so right now I'm working with immigration officers up in Ontario to find skilled programs where we can actually change some visa requirements we can actually change some paperwork requirement where people will be like you know what I don't need to go to Alberta and work in.

64:43A restaurant to get my papers I can actually be working in a hospital project in Halifax yeah and work towards residents let me just say like that's amazing that you are taking that initiative because regardless of what we do locally and this is a problem across the country when you talk to people at you know yes we need to be training more young people we need to attract more people to trades but we're gonna need immigrant workers too oh yeah that's just a fact absolutely so well we.

65:09We Canada in general need immigrants and then and in construction on top and look at it most of the bulk of the work that was was done by the immigrants that came in the 50s and 60s and they're all retiring and there's nobody to take their place so we have a big big shortage right now and there were immigration programs that I came through were too much focused on office jobs right and and what people need to understand that trades here are very different like if.

65:40You're a metal if you're a supervisor that's an office job yeah so it's complicated yeah you need to learn how and then nowadays like so we do a lot of prefab and modular stuff too okay and if you can do that stuff yes you're you're a guy on a tool but you need to know how to read plants you need to know Ben you need to know CAD yeah you need to know your structural drawings right so that's what we're trying to make people aware of and that's one of our targets so.

66:03Today is the Atlantic immigration program I don't know if you know if you're aware of it it's a very interesting program where you can actually bring in a lot of so so we don't even have to go out of country there's already a lot of people that have that are here yes yeah but they are not into construction because construction does not benefit their immigration profile they cannot transfer into a residency a permanent residency because the problem is is that unions are the jobs not classified in.

66:31The trades enough to for their journey toward PR and citizenship is that what you mean yes because class D or whatever it is construction doesn't have this classification of full-time jobs right the job stops even though they're making good money and working 50 hours a week or more exactly so unions are not our non-employers they're Union Hall employers are not the owners because they're taking from the union so the government is confused who's going to take responsibilities of these people right so now the unions are actually on.

66:58Board they're like no enough is enough we need to get on board so now we are trying to work on some pilot programs where the unions the employers and the government with immigration Canada comes on board and try to make sure that these these young people that are out there inside the country struggling to find jobs or working in other trades because just because they want their residency to jump into construction so that's something I'm personally working on very hard with couple of associations and we want to set up training so so Mathis.

67:27Indoors that you guys acquire we want to set up some training over there for people to come and learn the trade a little bit more yeah ask for help from the trade Ministries ask for help from immigration and a script asked for help from you as well to make awareness about it and and bring new new generation into the trade that's great I mean we could definitely go down that to talk about that for a long time but I'll definitely want to connect you to some people one one from the Ukraine.

67:51And a few other young guys here doing the same thing hiring a lot of people yeah we can chat about that absolutely not fair but I want to go back to what you said about the Gap and you know knowing Bim knowing cat and Revit all the technology you know I think I could be wrong but I think in the UK a lot of tenders that have come out public wise the takeoff's Done Right everybody's playing on the same field you don't need to have someone sitting.

68:17There paying them you know really good money or doing takeoff it comes in with the tender now you got to put your variables your material labor you got to do that of course but the takeoff's done when the tender comes out so that eliminates a lot of overhead costs like a lot a lot so it's neat that they do that right yeah I know they do it in some countries in Europe and I think it happens in the it started to happen here too because what happened was when the prices went.

68:43Up that high nobody can absorb the pain right so before like 26 2019 the pricing the Metal pricing that we were paying was like 2016 pricing and then all of a sudden 120 120 jump yeah in a year so there came a demand of indexing where we are going to the GC saying this is your price of your metal for this many time but this is how much it costs you to buy right if it goes up we get paid more yeah so it's kind of same concept where we're like this is.

69:15Your square foot price for this many items but if anything changes we have to revisit the price because keep in mind the unit after the union strike the labor also went up like 10 over three years which is quite a bit of money right so so that I think you're gonna see more and more and what also happened with covet right after covet was things got bigger before we used to do a lot of hundred thousand two hundred thousand dollar jobs now it's like million dollar jobs.

69:40Yeah even here I mean everything is just it's bigger everything major this you majored 300 million dollar jobs whatever you're getting announced so so and then what we are trying to say is that owners paying for it regardless so why do we keep repeating the cycle why do I have to get an engineer I have to do a takeout while you have already done it yeah you're right you are it is it's true you're it's repetitive in that regard because it's so complex it's yeah there's a lot of overlap yeah we had a.

70:09Couple of projects so we're doing a big Shepherd of Good Hope project in in Ottawa and we did some John hard so so a lot of commercial there are residential projects because downstairs is all offices and caseworkers and stuff and upstairs it's housing for indigenous women okay people that are working on so we work with them because you know these are the projects we don't want them to go over budget because we need them you know yeah for a good cause so we work with the client.

70:34And said listen if if you want to do this project in time and in in in in in in the same price let's not go to the stage where we're gonna Select A supplier after tender let's bring them to table now share the quantities now tell them what you need now and let's lock it yeah right so so the clear discussion started to happen so I think I don't think we are far from that era where projects will they will have more and more I think they call it not integrated.

71:05Project delivery I think something something similar to that yeah something where you know all the shareholders you might call it or stakeholders stakeholders yeah are on stakeholders yes are on the table right away because yes stakeholder so yeah in a sense it's similar to like a private design build absolutely yeah like if there's a big provincial project tomorrow you know and we get on board it's we only have to estimate it once yeah no no kidding yeah four times yeah and you don't have you know words coming out three times.

71:34Tendered and revised and this and you know we all know as subcontractors well geez I just spent like a month estimating that now I got to get my senior estimator spend another three weeks and then it gets got tendered out again and there's all these you know it's it's grueling and but yeah there is a lot of changes that are going to happen I think you know it's going to take time but but it's interesting to think because if you can automate some of those things you know like.

71:58Software is one thing yeah it's rarely you're going to see a contractor of this size or even much smaller because obviously we're dealing with big companies here at the table but it's really hard to get by without some kind of software for estimating for project management tracking you know you can't do it no you can't do it anymore right so but if there's if that's just the tip of the iceberg right so what's up until like there is no contractor out there drywall that can handle all the.

72:26Work there is none it's always going to be in a partnership it's always going to be a joint effort and and you know with with the QE2 coming up and all this big yeah I mean someone's going to get that and they're gonna be busy for five years you know I mean it just it locks you in for you know that long or longer yeah and and it will have effect on everybody yeah because if if all the people are busy in one part of the town everything.

72:48Else needs attention too so that's why that's right it's good it's good for the industry it's good for the industry for sure but we have to make sure that you know we don't spend money on stuff that that doesn't matter so that's yeah we're we're really focusing on so you're carrying this out with a lot of caution good pace you're not going after major major jobs you're kind of like I mean or are you bidding any size anything goes kind of thing no we are we are so so the.

73:15Thing is we can bid any size you can you have the capacity to perform it we've got 100 trucks and 120 people on the ground as of right now in East Coast right so yeah and Nova Scotia I think it's the bulk but but yeah but as far as the commercial drywall scope we are we're going after so yeah you can send as many employees as you need but like you got to eliminate that travel cost because that's going to price you out of the job and then you need to slowly.

73:40Build up the local crew so the way the way these jobs work is the second you get a big job right away it attracts the local people right away yeah so we've got to go back home right yeah no we we definitely have not set any limits we definitely want to go after the bigger jobs for sure because you know together we can tackle anything that's out there yes yeah and we are not limiting ourselves because we also want to show what we can.

74:04Do and smaller jobs is where you build your team it's where you really get the local presence with less risk while you're doing it well less risks to everybody right because worst case something yeah we can send guys and finish it up exactly but this is where you know you know people don't look at people are never going to go look at the big job with the dry water they see who's working right across and see the name oh yeah Soubliere-Trinity is here I know them yeah so we have we really.

74:29Don't have any limits and we definitely have enough resources between between the two companies so so you're going to be involved Steve and saying you know I don't really don't want to bid this one like you talk how much do you communicate with them you're still involved family on that so I'm deciding what to do exactly and who we're betting to and who we're focusing our time with right because like Dwaine and myself spend a lot of time here over the last few years developing the relationships.

74:52And feeling out who's the right people to to work with but I I also think this is a very good time for the industry to have a new player come in I feel like it's been the same players here for a very long time yeah I come from that side of things I felt like even when I worked there I know it was a while ago but a lot of companies do treat their employees the way I feel like they have to treat them to retain them and there's.

75:16A lot of employees out there I think that are just used to us here right and but they're not getting what they should be getting you know that's something else I want to look at like I mean if you're looking after work you should be getting the supervisor rate you shouldn't be a journeyman you should be getting that supervisor rate for example just the culture and the culture exactly like I find when I worked before you were just a number on somebody's payroll right and it's something that Dwaine.

75:38Here and Trinity's really taught me over the years is that it's a lot bigger than that it's not about making money it's about making relationships it's about treating your people right your people are going to look after you as long as you treat them right yeah I I think if we come in here with that culture and we treat people the same way Dwaine has taught me to treat people I think the people will come I think the I think you know after we get a few jobs under.

76:01Our belt and and everything goes well I I really do feel the people will come yeah and good timing in other ways too and fact that you know like a lot of these players that have been around in the same ties in with the labor shortage like there's going to be a period of five to seven years here where people a lot of guys that have been around are at the retirement phase absolutely you know and somebody's got to kind of carry the torch and absolutely I I see a.

76:25Difference right now as well it's not like it was 10 years ago where we're all out there Cutthroat and trying to chase the lowest price right there's enough work out there right now that I'm trying to talk to my customers and say I I want to build the relationship with you now so when this boom is over we still have this together we're looking after each other because that's that's what I see right now with a lot of the GCS we work with we got to look after.

76:49Each other or yeah or we can't get these jobs done the way they are now so it's I see it's more reflective and long-term yeah we almost kind of bypass like you know certain GCS some we wanted schools you just bought we have no interest in working for it you're not you don't fit our mold you're not what we're looking for as a partner yeah and I mean that's that's interesting so how long do you think it took for you Dwaine like to be able to understand fully like the model you're.

77:19Going for and like because you do sometimes have to take on work or bid stuff that you don't want necessarily I've been there right yeah yeah it takes a while took every point where you can be selected I talk every single job that I could get I tried to pay the bills with every everything I could do I was taking advantage off a lot of the times by Jeezy's out there and I I started to see the ones that were willing to look after me and and wanted me to succeed.

77:43And and that's I think you know a lot of contracts they have to go through that grueling process before you can see the seeds that are going to be healthy today yeah and I mean it it taught me a lot you know I mean it's I tell a lot of my people until you feel that sick feeling in your stomach when something's going wrong you're not going to succeed because you don't understand it's almost like you have the sensor now yeah you can feel it right in yourself.

78:08You're doing away yeah and I mean it's it's just I've I've watched the industry grow over the last few years I really I hated those days where everything was about schedule I don't know if you remember that little 10-year span or whatever they was like we can get it built the fastest for you and everybody was jumping down that road and all I stood back was watch some of the worst buildings I ever watched get built just before they could say they opened the they opened the doors on that yeah.

78:34Maintenance costs and repairs oh my God there's buildings that I know that the millions are getting ready to tear down yeah I mean the things are 10 15 years old that's just a shame just so somebody could be happy to sort of schedule instead of I I'm with a 60 to 100 year product here yeah and I mean to me if I was that building owner I would want People Like Us in there saying you know what we're not here cutting these Corners guys we don't care about I would.

78:58Rather look at an owner and say you know what your Project's going to be a week late but this is why yeah versus oh I met your schedule but in two years time you're going to be something mad at me when this starts falling off the walls or your building is condemned for some stupid reason whatever yeah yeah no I think it's a different time in the industry every really do it and it's it's a good time for us it's a good time to get in with these ones that want to.

79:21Help us grow and are looking for someone to help them succeed too because that's just the way I see you going it's come a long way too because I remember even six years ago pricing just spray foam insulation in buildings and you know we'd be you know 10 15 20 religiously higher than everybody else yeah and then after you know about a year or so of them taking that lower price and all that kind of stuff they come back and they well we want you to price the next building and we're.

79:47Like sure we'll race next building but oh could you guys cover the windows I'm like well yeah we cover the windows when we spray well the last two companies come in they just spray and I have to replace all my glass only that's why they were 20 cheaper than us to be honest with yourself just kept going over So eventually it took a lot of turmoil like I mean we priced and priced and priced and priced and you know we weren't winning a whole lot and then it.

80:07Was almost like a light switch went off honestly and then all of a sudden it's been you know great for the last four or five years anyway so that's amazing yeah so Carson for you what do you notice or can you speak on for as far as like just the differences you've seen in the markets I mean obviously there's the size and the geographic location all those things but do you find like as far as the relationships here the people you've met obviously including Dwaine and Steve but like similar.

80:37Culture like as far and then similar processes and operations models and stuff is for compared to central Canada or well I will say like to add on that is that we like I said in Ontario we are in a smaller town so definitely everybody knows everybody here which is very important but it's a lot like Kingston though I mean I was just in Kingston a couple months ago visiting a friend and it's just Kingston feels a lot like Halifax even even the what's the name of the Fort Henry is.

81:02It no it's just like Citadel Hill or it's almost just like another Halifax yeah got a beautiful River over there it's a tourist town right so it's quite a bit like Kingston everybody knows everybody and and then you're in construction where everybody knows everybody and yeah so that's why I would say it's quite similar and to a point where actually we know you were saying where Steve do you get involved in that decision making of tendering it's actually totally driven by Steve and Dwaine's relationship and every every Friday we have an Ops.

81:28Meeting where someone has and our coordinator Caitlyn joins us and when we go through what are you guys betting it what are we bidding at is it good gentleman it's not so everything is driven through them we are just Soubliere headquarters is just a backup kind of like your data it's just a backup right that's providing all kinds of all the pre-construction resource yeah exactly but it's it's all you know we are we want to try new things we want to we want to get new.

81:56Guys in but we also don't want to risk your project so we want to send in somebody wiser that we have known for quite a while while to just oversee and it is on our cost in the sense like Soubliere is paying extra to have this gentleman there to supervise just to make sure the quality is not compromised until we know the new players are in line are in sync well I think I think that's you know to have that one trusted experienced guy here on the sites for that scope is.

82:27And what I've noticed is one big difference is that it doesn't take a lot of convincing to send people from Ontario to Halifax everybody wants to come here it's gorgeous yeah so so you know and so our boys like you know so what we are doing in Ottawa is just like we're we're asking we're taking turns because everybody's busy with major projects in Ottawa too so we're just like okay when you're done and you have a transition we're going to give you a two-month period where you're not.

82:51Jumping on your next big job and you can probably go and work up here a little bit so there's a little there's a little bit different in Pace of work because I think it comes from the shortage of manpower Ottawa is definitely you know we have our shortage of Manpower but there's a lot of players over there so we see that but it's quite alike for me it was not a surprise because Kingston and all that areas I've already seen it there's a lot more relationships here.

83:18Which I like other than that not another not a whole lot different okay honest have you have you used some some Ottawa suppliers on the drywall side for certain jobs or all local suppliers or can you speak on I'd rather not yeah no problem but it's in it's it's work in progress because we have a lot of relationship with big manufacturers so big gsds okay right so for us for us it's like you know you know if we're doing a project out of town and there's a supplier right.

83:49There we have to use them right because you're not going to wait for yeah you've got to have relationships absolutely but our relationship like our projects are like I said 12 gauge 10 gauge products we need 14 40 feet high stats so a lot of times when pre-specialized yeah so when we move to a project on we would like recently we just bought a whole 40 feet container we shifted to the side full of metal for all our tools we bought all brand new tools we put it in.

84:12There when it got there we converted into our office and now wherever one of our four men goes that trailer moves with them so this is the scale we're talking right yeah so you know at any given point we are buying from multiple suppliers yeah of course it's necessary but our major relationship comes with big gsds which is Gypsum Supply delivery companies and manufacturers right so so Armstrong a lot from CGC's all Saint-Gobain right so you know it all trickles but we do do a quite a bit of.

84:41Work we have relationships in Ottawa one supplier that take care of us across our provinces but to be continued to be continued yeah but Stephen you know so Trinity site have their own relationship you know if you guys want to add on that that's more than okay but presumably it's kind of our yeah sure to be continued yeah no of course of course yeah I mean you've had you would have relationships for all for all the I mean all the services you're carrying out for.

85:09Trinity for years oh for sure and all kinds of local I mean it's a different game we're biting off right now too so yeah we're we're relying on a lot of Karsh's relationships for this but this is where he gets to look at us and we get to open new doors for him down here as well right so that's great and it was always important for us like it's like Karsh was saying he's sending his has taught people down here right now but Trinity was built on its reputation was.

85:35Getting the job done showing up when we're supposed to so it's very guarded for us the first year like I'm not gonna I work too hard you want to keep that rep yeah I'm not going to lose that so I I mean I trust Karsh with with the world but we're standing back and making sure that this is a good fit for both of us and so far we've we've rocked it over the power so it's very important to understand that as a business owner you know we could.

86:00Be very easily be a micromanager because you know when it's it's like it's your way it's it's right and well and then your way right yeah and I was talking to someone the other day but this you have to be so strong-willed to be an entrepreneur and a business owner like you really have to be strong-willed and so sometimes it's hard to you know to balance out within yourself internally not to make or understand you know okay this guy can do that and I can back off you know it's.

86:25Tough to 100 so like that's why we've decided and this is something I've learned myself right so if I'm the owner of the business and president on my side what I think every if I'm in the office every day everybody's gonna think what I think is right and you don't want that you want your team to grow so that's where me and Dwaine had a conversation we said okay somebody does things a certain way Trinity does things a certain way right and every place has its own local.

86:53So we we agreed on we agreed on that we have to make Steve the head of it for now we are guarding the the company Soubliere's gardening with our own experience and Trinity is guarding you their own experience yeah soon soon it will have its own culture well what we want to do is make sure that that as we develop we make sure the quality is there and all the processes are set so so my focus now has been it's mostly growing right I'm basically retired from.

87:23Operation I'm not touching any operations anymore and because if I if I go and touch it I can do it but then I'm stopping somebody else from doing it it's somebody else from growing into it delegate to elevate absolutely exactly right so so we're going to see this grow quite a bit and that's coming back to the supply Supply conversation we want to see how it organize organically grows and how it goes from there right and for us the first and the most important thing is what is our why why do we exist.

87:52We exist to do a project and do the project right that is the main goal everything else will come as we go so for now we just want to make sure that all the clients are served right on time project that we deliver is delivered right and we're working for the right people and we're hiring the right people yeah and we're giving them the right culture especially now it's a it used to be an employee Market it's an employer Market so we're gonna and and if you create a.

88:20Company where an employer can come in can do his work have a good relationship with people and can see that he's not set up for failure I think you will just grow we will just organically grow and like like just about now like we're seeing like the request we're turning down jobs every day like our conversation happens with like we're not pricing that you're not pressing this we're not pricing this and it's just it's just immense yep any any any final thoughts guys any final thoughts see pretty exciting.

88:51Times it is it's extremely exciting so as this being my trade is extremely exciting too especially for you yeah exactly getting a shot to work with these guys and hopefully grow something great here just as they did in Ottawa and Dwaine and everybody and Trinity is down here and you know the maritime so yeah you know I'm I'm extremely excited for this to get going and I I think this could be a good thing for the industry shake up is always good they say so yeah that's right yeah it keeps.

89:16Everybody on their toes no and we're just I'm very excited I'm happy to see where this is going to go it feels right I like the time that we talked not to rush into it we put the right people in place yeah felt each other out first to make sure we're a good fit and and I think it's going to work so I'm very happy I'm happy for the problems I'm proud that we're able to take this to the province I think it's a big deal for the problems as well.

89:43And we're able to keep more people here draw more people here and amazing well my final thought as simple as we between us we have a lot of people for a lot of things everybody has their assigned jobs there's a department that's going to handle the drywall the studs and the and the hard costs part of it yeah my focus personally would be on making sure that that gap between the technology the attracting the right making a shift into shifting our our youth into more into trades where we.

90:18Need to be you know catching on on a new Manpower from immigration and local immigration within provinces and making sure the culture is set right because it's about time we change that toxic toxic mentality that has been in construction where you know people are not treated right yeah and you know we are we're making some serious stuff here we're creating buildings you know 20 years 30 years later 50 years later you can see those buildings there let's take pride into it yes you know it has.

90:45The the thought process around construction has to change and that's that's literally been my career I all I have done is put people together I have a famous saying of saying that there is no project managers in construction we're all coordinators we're all coordinators so I just want to coordinate this and I think it's a it's a it's a start of something very beautiful we're very excited we've got all the support we needed from The Province and I have a feeling we'll be back here pretty soon.

91:10Amazing yeah no I mean it's for me for someone local here in the industry and obviously with us with the show here it's it's exciting news and it's great to see you know it's great to see someone with so much energy and passion and then you have the you know an Innovative touch those are the things that are going to help change the industry we need thought leaders you know we can't just keep doing the same thing over and over again and sometimes it has to do with the demographic you.

91:32Know Millennials think differently than than I don't want to box people in but you know people think differently I said why saying once that I always remember someone says you should always be working with someone 10 years older than you and 10 years younger and it's so wise because we do think a little bit differently you know and it's it's it's great to see well I'm excited to do that you know and what I'm doing is what Dwaine has already done in his company Steve has already done it's just that.

91:58In construction you're so busy with the noise yeah you don't get to do no that's the biggest problem you're way too immersed in it to even think about strategy you know so so I'm thankful to you know to to the guys that work for us you know our my Core Construction Group yeah site and my core core office group my project managers and and Dwaine Steve that they're they're like you go do your stuff yeah while we do our stuff right so so it's like you know.

92:23So I'm very thankful that you know I get to be the face while everybody gets to do the work I'm doing the work too it's not that but I'm just a different kind of work yes it's like just I'm here talking because of there are people like Dwaine Steve Mario in the office there's a lot of people that I can say names are that are backing us up so you know let's let's get this going yeah Dwaine you must have been in your time you've been around.

92:46A long time and seen like I've had experiences at different times you know or sometimes companies will come in from central Canada or other provinces you know especially in the core of Halifax and whether they're sub trade or GC and you know sometimes they're kind of button heads you know a lot it's not on great pretenses or whatever and I've you know I can think of one one particular job that I I'd rather not think about for sure but just to see this a.

93:17You guys utilizing your resources on both ends and coming together like this it's amazing you know it's great for the problems it's great for the industry you know maybe you know like you said the big players in the drywall industry will have to get used to it but for everybody it's it's a good thing it's great to see you know it's it's good to see the work you guys working together making this happen you know whereas a lot of times like like we talked about you know it.

93:42Doesn't always happen that way so attitudes need to change and the way a thought process but even what you guys are doing here now with this podcast this is huge for our industry and I have to congratulate you for that I appreciate that this is a huge thing to get us all talking you you know yourself 10 15 years ago none of us talked no yeah we don't know how to do it very well as men do we no yeah so I mean we got to learn you come around here now.

94:05And and we all listen to you and it kind of makes it feel like we're all it's I wanted to make sure I said that to you guys because I think it's a great thing I appreciate that thank you so much and us coming down here I think it's actually good for the local contractors there's enough work for everybody so what we are stopping from what we're not really stopping but what we're doing is we're just balancing it in a way we are picking up the jobs that are out there.

94:31That are being ignored by others and people out of town are coming in and taking it and that's not sustainable for anybody not not good for the economy because all the money is living right yeah so for us it's like there's enough work and you know we are not out there to get all the job we want the jobs that we are right fit for that's about it yeah and just we just want a fair shot absolutely everybody deserves a fair shot and I know Steve from you know for.

94:54A little bit from before so I think he got the right you got the right guy on the on the case there here locally so I've been told I'm lucky anyway guys this has been this has been a treat wishing this endeavor and all of you gentlemen the best of luck with it and I look forward to to drop in this episode and getting it out there for the province to hear about awesome thank you thank you thank you for having us take care this episode is brought to you.

95:18By Cook Insurance your trusted insurance broker in Atlantic Canada for 50 years insurance is complex and the cook team focuses on delivering comprehensive solutions for your construction needs including Builders risk wrap-up liability performance bonds and Project Specific construction a Navacord partner since 2020 cook is one of the largest construction brokers in Canada and offers National strength with a local touch whatever your insurance needs are cook has you covered the team at Atlantic Construction podcasts have been able to build a strong relationship with the folks over at FCA Surety FCA Surety.

95:48Is heavily engaged in supporting the Atlantic Construction Marketplace and helping contractors to build their businesses and we can't recommend them enough well FCA has their head office in Ontario many of the members of their team have lived in Atlantic Canada and worked in the construction Community here this gives them a unique National perspective with a local flavor Andrew Curry leads FCA's National Surety operations as vice president of Surety their knowledge of the bonding Marketplace and under standing of how insurance companies view your business is unparalleled in addition the depth of.

96:15Their team and reach across Canada gives them the ability to draw numerous experiences to help clients navigate items like sub trade construction disputes liens and Supply risk management these are the things that separate FCA Surety from the pack make sure to give the guys a call over to FCA Surety for all of your bonding and charity needs.