Sourcing Certified Building Materials from China for Halifax Builders | Houzzspace's Cong Lin

0:05Welcome back to the Atlantic Construction Podcast. Excited today to have a special guest, Cong Lin, who is the founder and CEO of Houzzspace. Houzzspace is a building material supplier using products from China here to the Halifax market. Fairly new — I think, Cong, you've done a few jobs so far. Is that right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we brought stuff from China here and we make sure that it's fully certified and can be actually installed here.

0:43Yeah, so we do have a few jobs on the go. One — there is one house that has been built on Quinpool, and also the coming Q2 lottery homes, potentially. Show — I don't know, should I disclose this? It's okay. I mean, even if we have to cut it out we can, if that's — maybe I shouldn't go into too many details. Yeah, yeah. But you did say you had a commercial fit-up. Yeah, I do have a few jobs going on, on the go, and —

1:16everything will probably be finished in the year. Yeah, yeah. So but before we get too particular and kind of dive into the business model and the products and such — this idea of sourcing from China seems to be something that's happening more and more in recent years. I'm sure that's part and parcel of why you kind of decided to start this business, and tell us a little bit about that journey and when did you realize that you could kind of place yourself in a

1:51niche, and some of the advantages you would have, and kind of how Houzzspace came together. Yeah, so — like, everybody, probably everybody in the industry who is trying to do estimates or like in big jobs trying to source their materials — a lot of them probably know Alibaba, and a lot of factories and suppliers in China like to use that platform to try to sell their products. But I think I have heard a lot of stories about people buying stuff through Alibaba, and the stuff

2:29that came here — it doesn't fit or it doesn't have certain certificates, or the figures to fit into their projects. So I think an advantage to me is that I have spent almost 15 years here and I have been involved in the construction business before. I have more understanding than the people who live in China, never come out, never know the standards, the building codes — I've studied those and am trying to get everything right, trying to

3:05fill in the gap for some missing products that are hard to find here. Yeah, I'm trying to fit in the gap. So you've been here for 15 years, Cong. What brought you to Halifax — was it to go to Dalhousie? Yes, originally to study. Yes, yeah. So I came here in the third year of university, so I basically spent two years in China, spent two years at Dalhousie here, and it's a program that they have, so I

3:40can get both degrees, and I furthered my education at Dalhousie and pursued my master's as well, graduating in 2013. Is that in business or engineering? In economics. Okay, yeah, yeah. So you would definitely have a big advantage, and like you said, you studied the market and the building code for Canada — specifically for these East Coast provinces — and have an understanding of that. So the advantages for people who say maybe are sourcing from China by other means — in dealing with you, it would

4:22be quicker lead times, sure that the materials are tested, they meet the code, North American approved — those kinds of things. Where if they hadn't engaged you, they're kind of left on their own to source and not sure what's going to show up or what it might turn out to be. Definitely, definitely. Houzzspace can be acting like a sourcing or consultation — consulting company. So we do help big organizations or developers or builders here to source the right

5:00products from China, due to the connections that we already have. So Houzzspace — right now I'm the president and CEO. We also have a person who is in China with a huge construction background, whose family has been doing aluminum-related building materials for more than 15 years, and what they do is always high quality and also efficient — so that way they can make it affordable. So everything is digitally produced. One thing that got me into

5:45this business is that three years ago, me and him were classmates back in high school, so it's a long history. But when I went back to China three years ago, we were in a kind of get-together for high school classmates, and we talked about our lives, and he mentioned — is there any aluminum-framed interior doors that are seamless in North America? Because that's what they

6:22were originally doing. So I was like, hmm, I cannot think of it, but guess what — I did have a friend who was going to build a luxury house in the South End of Halifax, and it took them a long time and they were struggling to find the right door for the house. But they couldn't find one. In the end they used something from an industrial supplier and painted it with — you know, car paint, it was used for car paint — but in

6:56the end, kind of the sort of getting this idea of a modern looking door — however it's not perfect, if I say so. But they probably spent, with hardware, probably roughly $4,000. I was like, wow — I think your product will be awesome here. And just to have some projects to show your product, we talked more and more about it. We found a lot of modern materials are hard to find in North America, or you're going to have to spend

7:33a fortune on it. And we started digging in and finding the rest of the products that could be a potential fit here. Of course, not every single product that was produced in China can be utilized here or it wouldn't be a perfect fit. First of all, the drywall thickness will be different between these two countries. In order for their doors to be installed here, you're going to have to put in certain different hardware to make the perfect fit. The

8:10door you spoke about — was it just a typical interior man door, 32 to 36 inches, in lieu of a pressed steel frame or in lieu of a wood frame, wood corridor? Like, is that what the client was looking for? Something — so you're saying you use aluminum? So, yeah, so not just the frame — also the door leaves are aluminum frames. This typical one that we are actually starting supplying to Home Depot, because that's kind of the product that they don't have, so we can fill in the

8:43gap. Since it's aluminum you can customize it to however big you'd like. But there's another thing that we found: for these kind of doors it might be a little bit too pricey for the mid-range home builder. Yeah. So we kind of looked into whether we can use wood for the door leaves, so it can decrease our cost. And we did find an engineered hardwood panel to replace the

9:23door leaf that can dramatically decrease the price, so we can sell it at an affordable price — much more affordable price. So — we didn't mention your showroom yet, and that's in Burnside. What's the address again? It's 35 Mosher Drive. Okay. So you're set up there with the showroom, and a lot of the products that you sell you have on display to show the functionality and that sort of thing.

9:53I was there. So would you say interior doors are kind of a focus? Because I know in your catalog there's any number of interior and exterior products, but is interior doors one of your main focuses? When we first started, we were starting with the interior doors and the trims and some lighting fixtures, so my website is mainly showing those. However, with the two years that we dug in, we found that we should bring more to make sure the modern style

10:27is right here. So now our product is mainly for interior finishes, exterior finishes, a lot of plumbing fixtures — modern ones — and also some furniture. Of course, light fixtures as well, like track lights you can put different modules in. And I make sure all the products that I provide are certified in North America. Yeah, and on top of aluminum, you provide an aluminum roofing product and siding materials, cladding materials, curtain wall as well. Yes, yes. So

11:10like I said, for all the exterior finishes we have different options — vinyl windows or aluminum punch windows. Aluminum windows will be very high grade, AW grade in the industry, and it's glazed with low-E, right, for both glass. So yeah. For vinyl windows, we are still in the process of getting our product certified, but once it's done I will let everyone know. And the vinyl windows that we are going to provide are also very high quality

11:52and affordable too. So high quality with affordability is definitely a tagline. I don't want to say mission statement — I don't like that term. But obviously custom homes, high-end homes would be a target to engage for Houzzspace. What about — I'm thinking like a lot of commercial developers who have hundreds and thousands of units on the books over the coming years in the HRM area, already sourcing stuff from China — you know, need pot lights for this 12-

12:32story multi-res building here, and whether it's plumbing fixtures, middle of the road — these are some clients that could benefit from connecting with you and you helping with the logistics and the process of sourcing stuff from China that are high quality but also affordable and the pricing is right. And in the range — for example, pot lights if they're 18, 20 bucks a pot light for four or six inch pot lights or something like that — those are the kinds of things that, volume-wise,

13:06you can get in there and really help out some of these major developers, I'm guessing. Definitely. So this will be thanks to the connections that we have in China and also the understanding of the product and market here. Since we know both sides, it's easier for us to source those things. Like I said, Houzzspace can be acting as a consulting company as well for big projects to help other companies find the right products. Yeah, managing

13:42both sides. So here you have the showroom, you're local, you're present here for going into offices and boardrooms and displaying your business and your products and how you can help, and all the advantages — lead times and having all products tested and those kinds of things — so there's no issues. Also, what about the other end? Can we talk a little bit about — you mentioned your friend, your high school friend that you grew up with in China — are

14:13a lot of these products coming from the same facility, the same manufacturing plant? Is there various ones that you're kind of plugged into? How does — maybe talk a little more about that end of things. Yeah. Since our focus is on modern quality and affordable stuff, my partner in China — what's his name, by the way? Lucas. We have a huge following on the podcast here. Yeah, yeah. So his name is Lucas Lin. Yeah, and his family has these huge connections

14:48with other factories who are producing similarly high quality, affordable products, and we sort of connect everyone together — that's why we can offer mostly all interior and exterior finishes right now. Okay. And his enthusiasm in building materials was originally from the family, of course, and he has this very high passion for design as well. So he is not a professional designer, however he designed his own home, which is

15:33a big building and very luxurious looking, very modern and simplistic. That's what we aim for. So like I said, Houzzspace is aiming for modern, quality, and affordable. Yeah, I think it's daunting for some of the local people to think about how they can place orders to source building materials from China — have them railed or shipped, railed or trucked to a port, and shipped in an intermodal shipping container — have

16:14them show up here at the pier, packaged, all the way — all that distance for the same or better pricing — it's really something. Originally our thinking was that if we can get a project detail design, we can customize the whole material — and even furniture for the house — and ship it in as a container, have the container sit at the drop site, and they will have everything they need. With our material we also provide the

16:53other accessories — like nails, glue, whatever is going to be needed for a particular product — and any accessories and fasteners and things like that. Yeah, that's important to the contractors too. So these products will show up right on the job site, right at the address of the construction. That was our original thought, and if people have the same interest and want to try this out, we can definitely do that. If people

17:29have different projects on the go and they need a place to have their product sit and come pick it up whenever needed, we do have a warehouse right now that is cooperating with us — we can have the products placed there and get whatever you need when it's needed. Wow, yeah, that's really something. Yeah. When's the last time you were in China? I went back in February this year. Yeah, because your wife is there —

18:05right? Your children? Yeah, yeah. My wife is teaching in Fujian right now, at the university. Where did you grow up? I was originally from Fujian Province. Okay. It's a — long Yan — it's a small city. Yeah. I do like it there and miss my family a lot. Yeah. But since I have something here to do, and maybe I can make a difference, I'm thinking I can focus on

18:36my career here. Yeah, you're in a unique spot because you're passionate about what you're doing, you're also plugged into your roots and your culture, and you're kind of combining both things — and that's got to feel good for you, I assume. Yeah, yeah. So like I said, we want to fill in the gap for the modern materials that are missing in the market here, which are hard to find. And if you find it, it's very

19:10expensive. I'm thinking — why is that? If they're beautiful things, they need to be displayed. Yeah, and trying to make it real is hard, but it can be worth it. Yeah. On that topic of the two different cultures — how have you found, since you've started Houzzspace, tried to engage and get a few projects and supply some building materials, moving forward with the sales process? There are differences in the culture. I mean, I think HRM, Halifax especially — the East Coast — we

19:50are more and more diverse, multicultural — there's all kinds of different cultures represented here in any business capacity. Ukrainians and Palestinians and Chinese — there's people from all over the world here. But have you found it challenging, whether it's communication or how people go about sales, just to kind of reach some of the targets in the industry that you want to? Have you found it challenging in a way

20:24between the two cultures — China and Canada, China and the East Coast? Have you found that a challenge? Well, it's definitely not easy at first, but I believe Canada is a multicultural country already, for sure. So my English is not perfect, but I try to just get myself out there. And I worked in the bank for six years and worked as a mortgage advisor, and I had my own construction company. So you have experience as a

21:08builder as well, then. Yes. So we did build houses and did some renovation. So I have knowledge on that as well — that's why I can understand the building codes, trying to make the products that can be accepted here. And what would you say, as far as your long-term goal for Houzzspace? What's your goal in the next year or two, and what's your long-term goal? So I think for Houzzspace to go onto the market,

21:47we do need a show house to show everything that we offer, which is important. And we are in the process of building a show house on a lake — and it's on high ground, you can see the ocean as well. So once that is built I will be inviting people in to take a look, see if they like it. That's important too — to have them see the products there, functional, tangible for them to lay hands on. So it's visualized, right, when you can see it.

22:25Yeah, that's the most direct way to show your product. And if everything goes well, I'm hoping to distribute my product to all of North America, and also have my own distribution company here and warehouses — that's my long-term goal. But for now, I can help builders and developers to source the right products and help custom builders and architects to find the right product if they want. Like, something super modern, ultra modern —

23:15Also, sorry — did I cut you off? No worries. On the topic of architects — that's got to be a big inroad for you, to be in front of architects. And I mean, like it is for any building material supplier, to kind of get your foot in the door, get in the spec book, and be on their radar so that as they design certain custom homes or certain higher-end multi-res units or interior fit-ups at office spaces — like,

23:51large corporate office spaces like law firms and accounting firms and things like that — where they're buying top-of-the-line hardware and doors and finishes — those are some of the inroads I think too, right, for yourself and for Houzzspace? Yeah. And it's very hard to just use words to describe what products I offer. I encourage architects, designers, and builders to come to my showroom to take a look at what I'm actually offering. When I say

24:23modern, clean look, high quality — it's all from my mouth, but you're going to have to see the real thing. Yeah, to show that. That's right. Yeah. And so you mentioned aluminum before — are there other products that you want to touch on as far as what's used in the materials that give it an advantage or that aren't typical for this market? Well, for the roofing product that I'm providing right now, I think

24:56it's more innovative right now for the market here. It's aluminum, but it's double-layered. In the middle you can have spray foam filled in. It helps reduce the sound when it rains, right — because that's kind of an issue with metal roofs. When it rains it's kind of a loud, tinny sound. And since it's aluminum, compared to the traditional metal roof, it's not going to really rust, so it lasts much longer. Basically, yeah — more

25:31durable. And the way that we install those roofs is very easy — we have the socket for them to put the nail in, and you can just nail it, and then the other part just clicks on. And as far as a price per square foot when you compare it to other local metal roof suppliers — it's relatively the same or lower. Could be lower. And we have other products, like an XPS board. I would like to mention that

26:05it's kind of foam in the middle and has a double layer of cement board — or a finish on both sides — making it structurally very durable, and it's very light too. We can also attach a plywood or OSB board on the back. So the whole thing comes as a finished board for installers here — they can install the board and, without taking different layers, it's like putting one layer and it's your whole building envelope, sheeting and substructure, insulation — all one panel

26:45— and it just saves those layers of labor. Yeah, saves a lot of labor. So for the exterior wall assembly, I think you are looking at 20 to 25% savings compared to the traditional way that you do it. Yeah. And time-wise, there's a significant decrease in time — just imagine that you have to do the wall three times, have them assembled right, versus just once. Yeah, it sounds like a neat product. And products like that, when it comes to a lot of local

27:24builders — it's hard to kind of engage one and to get them to try it. I can see the value in it, and obviously the pricing is going to come down to the pricing, the most important part. But once someone tries it and likes it, that's word of mouth, and then the floodgates can open, right? The floodgates can open. I really encourage builders who are more into new stuff, new products, willing to try — willing to try it out. And I think

27:55it won't — you won't regret it. Yeah. Any other products that fit the same mold as this XPS board that you're speaking of? Are there any other products that are kind of cutting-edge in that regard? You want to mention — I mean, you mentioned the aluminum roof product. Well, for most of our products, like the windows — it's a big thing, right. It's aluminum and you can make it big. Say sliding doors — if you want a 10-foot door, no

28:32problem, right? Triple-glazed, tempered. And the price isn't going to skyrocket because of that. Oh, it won't be as expensive as you think. But people might think that's a luxury — a very very high-end product — but it's actually affordable. Yeah, regarding what it is. And when you see the product, I have a sample in my showroom and anyone who wants to see it is more than welcome to. Sure. And so if anyone's listening right now — if they're a commercial developer, if they're

29:08building multi-res or custom homes and they want to reach out to you, how can they reach you? Do you want to throw out your email? Of course — if you don't mind, you can put my email. Yeah, we'll definitely tag it in the show notes. And definitely, anything else you want to touch on that we haven't covered that you want to get out there to our listeners, whether it's listeners on Spotify or Apple or

29:37Google Podcasts for the audio version, or people tuning in to YouTube or some of our social media channels on LinkedIn? Anything else you want to throw out there that you'd like to make people aware of on behalf of yourself and Houzzspace, or that we haven't talked about? Yeah, I just want to let people know that Houzzspace is on the market right now and we are responsible, trustworthy people and we want to build our brand. The stuff that we are bringing in here is

30:09definitely innovative and we are making it all certified and affordable, so to make your project more efficient and bring in this modern, simplistic stuff. And I believe that's a trend as well — a lot of big designers and architects are trying to make their projects as clean as possible. I have seen a lot of designs — for example, like Omar Gandhi, who is a very local, very well-known

30:47local designer — a lot of listeners would know. I saw a lot of his projects. I can see the change. But I think what the market is missing is products, and I can find them — if not, I can produce them. Yeah. That might be another good thing to mention — is that you know, even if someone is looking for, let's say, high volume for a major townhome project or something, they've got 50 homes, or a basic design for multi-res — if

31:19it's a 100-unit, eight-story building or something in HRM somewhere, even if your goal is not the high quality for the right price and it's more middle of the road or lower-end products, Houzzspace can still source that and help with that and do good business with those kinds of clients too. It's not your bread and butter, so to speak, but it's still something you're able to help with. Is that right? Definitely. We can definitely help with that

31:50and logistically, if they need help, we can do that as well. We have good connections with COSCO in China, and they have always helped us to deliver the containers on time. And I — did I mention the lead time? I think maybe not. Yeah, so normally for a normal-sized or small-sized order, the lead time from the production to delivered on site will be 8 to 10 weeks. But if it's a relatively bigger volume it might take longer, but

32:31I would definitely let them know first. See if they can accept that. That's not bad — 8 to 10 weeks, that's going to perk some ears for sure. Yeah. I want to talk a little bit about — you mentioned brand, and I know that's a big word for you, a big theme. Houzzspace is a brand. Talk about that word, what it means to you. Because you hear it in so many different ways in the business world or in marketing, or in

33:07whether it comes to the cliche influencers on different platforms and stuff — everyone uses that term "building a brand." And people see your brand, they have a certain feel for it because it has a certain aura and a certain reputation and it stands for something. And the psychology behind it, and who you are in the community at large because of your brand — just maybe talk a little bit about what that word means, because I can tell in previous

33:37conversations with you that it means a lot, and that's what you're really building here, right? I mean you have a service, you have a showroom, you have the brick and mortar, you have the different parts of your business, but you're really building a brand. So it's an experience, right? Is that right? Yeah. So — a lot of people probably know Houzz, that designer website. If you are trying to look for design globally, you probably use that site as well. And "house" also — like

34:07house, right? House is where every person lives — at home. Home is very important for people. So we want this brand to give people an impression like we are a company that helps you to get a designed house. For sure. Well, thanks, Cong. We covered a lot of ground. Any final thoughts? Well, we are new to the market but we can do a lot. We have connections from China, we have knowledge for North America — for building codes, building materials. I hope I can find someone

34:57who is willing to try new products here and start an adventure — or build some new buildings that I would love to see out there that are using our products. Yeah. I wish you all the best of luck — not that you need that — but certainly as you would know, the timing seems to be exciting because the timing for your business model should prove to be good timing. So thanks again, thanks for doing this

35:36and coming on. Oh, thank you for inviting me. Yeah, I really appreciate it. And hopefully our listeners enjoyed it as well, and hopefully we can touch base after you get a few more under your belt. The race is — I'm going to stay here for a while, so anytime. Thanks, Cong. No problem. Thank you. No problem.