Why Shipping Windows to Newfoundland Costs More Than Winnipeg — ALLSCO on Glazing Science, Energy Grants & Atlantic Canada's Window Market

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1:07management software. We'll be conducting several podcast episodes with Procore users and construction companies across the country in 2023, among many other things. Stay tuned — we're excited.

1:22Construction Podcast. Very excited to have our guests here today. We have Andre Doiron, operations manager, and Remy, sales manager, with ALLSCO Windows and Doors — wholesale, retail, and contractor for all your windows and doors needs, and siding as well. So thanks for joining us today, gentlemen. Made the trip over from New Brunswick today. It's plus 40, I think, with the humidex. Thanks for the air conditioning, yeah. The air conditioning on the way over, I'm sure. Oh yeah. So usually we get started by just a

2:00little bit of a background on our guests. So maybe, Remy, if you want to just tell us a little bit about your journey. I know you were saying earlier that you spent some time at New Brunswick Community College and took marketing business there. Yeah, from there I went and did a small stint at Cavendish Farms, worked there for a bit, then after that transitioned to a contact center and worked as an analytical supervisor there, then moved on to Atlantic Lottery Corporation. Yeah, I've

2:31seen that. I did sports management over there, so anything for Pro-Line — we were, oh yeah, the odds and stuff like that. Awesome. Shifts kind of got in the way, family time and stuff, because they were all over the place. So ended up at ALLSCO — best decision I ever made. Yes, you've been there for how many years now? Just over five. Okay, yep, nice. Yeah, nice. And your role, Andre? So yeah, I started and spent a lot of time in pretty much every position, every

2:57position almost. Yep. So, I graduated from the Université de Moncton, business administration, operations specialty. And yeah, I worked in other window plants besides ALLSCO — I worked in one for Global Windows. And then eventually I came over to ALLSCO. So I've done positions across almost every division, from purchasing and IT, shipping, logistics, production, operations. And I stand as the operations manager, or director of operations, at ALLSCO currently. Okay, yeah. And that's just

3:29going to help you in your position as operations manager — just to have that perspective. When you're dealing with employees that are in different positions that you've been in, obviously they're going to respect you more. You're going to have intuition. Just tell us a little bit about how it helps your current role to have gone through that journey. It helps a lot to know what's going on. I know the ins and outs, I know the challenges that they

3:50can face, whether it's from a production standpoint, a machinery standpoint, a staffing standpoint. So I have more of a global feel for everything because I've been in their shoes. It's easier to help them as well if they're stuck or they have an issue — they can come to me and I can fix the problem pretty quick, or I know exactly where to get them the answer if they need it. So with that, it helps tremendously, because there's always

4:10challenges every single day, no matter where you're at. There's always an issue somewhere. Yeah, I see Remy's laughing — he's definitely the go-to guy. If you've got something you can't figure out, he's going to help you for sure. So, your role as sales manager — you were saying that you're looking after... obviously you're both located in New Brunswick, where the headquarters is for this Atlantic operation. You've got your manufacturing plant there, you've got a couple of

4:35satellite offices — one in Dartmouth and another one. And you said there's none in Newfoundland, one in Prince Edward Island? No, yeah, one in Charlottetown. So you're covering Nova Scotia overall — are you territorialized out as sales manager, or you're looking after just the store in Moncton? Okay. For the interim, until my boss comes back. But right now it's just me and another guy, we do the inside sales. I do a little outside sales here and there — yeah, and then more contractor-based and retail. So

5:05I touch on all three of the sales components. So you do deal with a lot of contractors coming through the door purchasing, yeah, and retail people — like, hey, I'm building a house, here's my house plans, I need to work with them on the design. What kind of windows, where — that's right, all that kind of stuff. If they want it painted or not painted. Yeah, your siding — I'll do your siding takeoffs. Yeah.

5:26So I'll calculate all that and then send them out quotes and stuff. And if they need help with builders, I have contractors too that I use, because ALLSCO doesn't have a set of installers — so we kind of use our local market of contractors. Right, there's no internal install crew. It's all — well, the All Weather crew does, they all have their own installation crews. But ALLSCO does not. Yeah. Right. So any carpenter is going to be purchasing your windows, they're

5:54installing themselves, yeah, typically. But the building envelope contractors — if they're buying from our stores in Halifax or anywhere in Nova Scotia, they're mostly supply-and-install stores. So either they're more dedicated to homeowners going in looking to do a renovation or new construction, or the contractors will buy from there as well — they'll buy direct from All Weather, install themselves. Just depends on what they're looking for. But in Moncton we use specifically our own internal

6:19customers — our contractors — that we then hand off leads to. Here's a takeoff, here's a lead for you; you can go talk to the customer and see if you can install it for them. And then, because most of your sales — I'm assuming, could be wrong — are in the residential space. It's not like you're supplying a lot of heavy commercial projects or working with architects as a salesperson trying to get into spec? No, but we do have some architects —

6:42so we'll see things come across our desk that we are spec'd on. We'll quote it. If we're not spec'd, we'll still quote on a fair bit of tenders regardless — whether we get it or not, we do quote them. So it just depends, you know, where they're at, can we supply them — a lot of the time it comes down to pricing and what they're looking for. Yeah. You mentioned a tender that you're shipping out a bunch of product

7:04to Nunavut. So that's a government tender that you guys worked on — did you get that with a contractor, or was that just... We got it through our — because we have a sister company up in Alberta and up in Winnipeg. So they basically got the other contract. We built the windows for them and it's shipping out, but we're shipping direct to the client instead of going through Winnipeg and then back up. So it's

7:25coming direct from here, directly to Nunavut. Okay, I see — manufacturing it here in your plant and shipping it out. Correct. Tell us a little bit about the details of that. As a contractor in Nunavut — are they doing multi-unit housing, or is it mostly renovation? They're renovating units that are there for current local residents, which are older units. So they're renovating — mostly all the same size windows, it's cookie-cutter, common sizes. And it's, you know,

7:56only a few windows per residence. I think the residences are very small, from what I can tell — I haven't seen the plans, but from the window details I can tell they're not very big residences. And they're just renovating. This is probably the fourth job we've sent so far in the last 18 months — we sent three in 2022, and this is the first one for 2023 we're sending. Okay, so it's happening year after year? Well, it's been over several phases. I think this is probably

8:18one of the final phases. And what's the volume like? Usually it's about 120 to 140 units going out every time. And these are all the same size windows? All the same size, yeah. Okay. And what size are they? They're about 30 by 34 by 48 — pretty standard size, yeah. Correct. So is this something — you mentioned earlier seeing a lot of renovations happening. Why do you think that is? Is it just

8:48timeline, or is it the buildings, or is there an environmental aspect where the building envelope is being upgraded — you're offering triple pane instead of double pane, low-E, different styles and films, different door styles — you know, for heat retention, for cooling in the summer, to protect the floors from the sun rays and things like that? Is there an environmental reason why that's happening up there? If it's a government contract, is there that side

9:15of things too with other renovations? Because I don't think there's an environmental driver — I think it's just the buildings are getting old, they're getting used, and they just need to get renovated. Right, timeline thing. Exactly — 40 to 60 years or whatever. Yeah, an update on the current energy ratings too — once it lives out its shelf life, eventually yeah. And keep in mind, they're in a much harsher climate than we are. They're in a

9:38very harsh climate. They have very limited time windows for construction — it gets cold fast. And like I said before, these things are shipping by sea container; they're going by boat. There's only three boats a year that go to that area. So they have a very limited time frame when they can actually do that through the project. But I'd say it's not due to any environmental push — it's just timing, it wears out, and the stuff is now past its shelf life and needs to get replaced

10:01and updated with current products. So how are sales divided up between — you know, assuming, as you mentioned earlier, Newfoundland is kind of tough distance-wise, logistics-wise — PEI, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia? Is sales spread between New Brunswick and Nova Scotia? Are you trying to grow more in the HRM area? Is there a challenge there? HRM has always been our main focus to grow

10:31that market. The potential in HRM is exponential — especially if you just look around. You know, remember when you came down — there are cranes everywhere, there are high-rises going up, there are apartment buildings, there are a lot of multi-dwelling units going up. So the opportunity is there in spades. It's just putting the focus on that. We have strong markets in PEI and we have very strong markets outside HRM in Nova Scotia — the South Shore and Valley area — those are our strong

10:59markets. HRM — we have our presence, but obviously it's where we want to grow. There's a massive opportunity there. Are you making trips over to the Dartmouth location quite often, or just touching base? I do deal with some of the salespeople in Dartmouth, but it's more of a partnership — not me specifically. They have their own thing going on, and then we'll chat and see how

11:26things are going. We stopped in on the way here, actually — always communicating. That's right, we stopped in on the way and had a chat with one of the salespeople, Diane, and checked in on how things were going. Yeah. And how are things right now for that location, as far as the market here? What's the general feel? It's going good right now. They're renovating the showroom completely, so there's going to be a full gut being done, a full

11:50update that's going to be done — hopefully in the next couple of weeks — which will give it some new life. But overall, All Weather as a brand in HRM has always been strong. So they're doing what they do, and they're still at it. And that's one of your big lines, right? That's correct, yeah. So that's kind of the hub for your retail in HRM — the Dartmouth location? Yeah. We used to have two locations: one in Cole Harbour and one in Burnside. This year we've

12:15basically amalgamated — put the two together, and everything's coming out of the Burnside location. Okay. And tell us maybe a little bit more about the operations as a whole — as far as number of employees, your manufacturing plant, just the company structure, for listeners to understand. So at the Moncton facility, we have about 120 people employed — between floor staff and production workers,

12:44administration, head office — there's about 120 people there, including the other location where Remy's at, which is our Edinburgh Road location. That's our sales office — there are people there as well to manage warehouse, shipping, logistics, and the customer and retail side. The plant — we manufacture everything at the plant. We manufacture all of our windows, our doors, and patio doors — all manufactured at the plant. Including thermal panes — we do our own thermal panes directly at the plant. And then we bring in the wholesale

13:12stuff, which would be siding, cladding, those types of things — exterior building envelope items that are just resold afterwards. What other building envelope items? It's mainly cladding products. Yeah. So we have many lines in siding — you have the vinyl, and then we have this composite siding that has caught on a little bit, starting to catch on more in our area. You get what you pay for — it's a nice product, it's well-made,

13:39solid. Then you have your normal vinyl that every house has had installed on it at some point. The price points are all different, so there's something for everybody. Yeah. Some of them are more suited for commercial. Yeah, we do provide aluminum siding, but that would be more for a commercial or multi-unit residential application — for an accent wall on the outside.

14:10So what about — we were talking earlier about some of the different specifics, like what you'd recommend for certain situations — for glazing, for windows and doors. Whether it's double pane or triple pane, different films, different low-E. Let's talk a little bit about some of the details you're usually working with when someone comes in with a house plan. If there's hardwood floors, you want a certain film. There's a lot going on

14:38on the south side, there's lots of glass — just stuff like that. Yeah, and that's changed. It's ever-changing — it's changed a lot in the last 10 to 15 years. How do you stay on top of that — are you going to seminars, or just dealing with different vendors... So most manufacturers — not all, but most — are part of a manufacturer association for windows, which is called Fenestration Canada. They have work groups, they have

15:05annual meetings — there's usually one in Toronto or Montreal every year, and then there'll be another one in the springtime for the AGM. So basically at the annual meeting, you'll have workshops. They'll talk — government members will come in and talk about where Energy Star is going, where the new guidelines are going, where the building code is changing, what new products — vendors will be there. And there's also the internal research we have to do internally just to keep up with the times. But

15:29we have noticed that customers have caught up to us very fast. And they've actually — some of them — surpassed our knowledge, because they had done a lot of research on their end. The customers being the builders that are buying and the end homeowner user. The internet — everything they have access to is overwhelming. They have a lot of information and ask a lot of good questions. And that's a good thing, exactly. They're interested and they

15:52want to know more, and they want to figure out what the best option is. Yeah, so they'll spend the money. Exactly. And what we're seeing too is that it's not just "I want windows and I'll take a standard low-E glazing package." It's now changing to different low-E for different elevations. So your south side versus your north side, passive solar versus solar-blocking — all these things are coming into effect. So it's not just "I offer windows with low-E

16:16and this is what it is" — it's now changing based on different elevations. I want different low-E because I have different functions for different elevations. So it's like level one, level two, level three — or just south-facing versus north-facing. And what's becoming more and more common now is solar-blocking glass versus passive solar. Passive solar was very popular in the last, say, 20 years. We're going to solar-blocking. People are investing in HVACs, they're putting massive heat pumps in

16:41their homes, they're putting in geothermal pumps, mini-splits, et cetera. And they're trying to couple the windows with the HVAC package. So how involved are you guys with that? Is that just up to the contractor and what they're buying — their deal — or if the builders are doing an energy audit or having the house energy-modeled, they'll need information

17:07from us to figure out the low-E package, the R-values, the U-values, et cetera. And then they'll model the house — okay, with what you're providing, we'll say this is the heat pump they're going to need, et cetera. So everything goes together. Before, I don't think they were looking at the house as a complete envelope — it was more like, get the windows and doors and the heat pump. Now it's

17:31all tied together. If you're investing in a proper low-E package, or you're putting the right windows on the right facade of your house, it modifies your heat pump decision — it can either bring down or increase the number of tons of heat pump you're going to buy. So all that changes depending on what you're doing. People are much more aware. And a lot of the time, we try to explain — Remy does as well — that even if you're putting in

17:57five or seven percent more on your windows to go to triple glaze — that's all it is, about five to seven percent — you're going to save it and more on your heating cost and cooling cost. People keep talking about heating, but you're going to save it in a short amount of time. Exactly. And cooling costs — as of 2020, cooling costs have now surpassed heating costs, especially with the winters we've been having. Exactly. So we've now increased the cooling cost side. So now you

18:25know, we're no longer in a climate where we don't have to look at cooling costs. Look at today — yeah, exactly, today's a perfect example. So the energy you're creating — and people say, oh, it's heat. No, it's the energy — which could be cool air. The energy you've created with your heat pump, you want to retain that energy. You don't want to lose your cool air through the windows or the doors. So you're

18:48looking for a proper low-E package — which, if you're going triple glaze or you're going with a solar-blocking glass, you're going to retain what your heat pump put into your house for a longer amount of time. What are you hearing from contractors these days — is there anything that jumps out? I'm sure you're talking to them all the time and they're saying like, yeah, we like this product, we don't like that one. Just anything on your mind in that regard. They usually — they'll talk

19:09to their customers and a lot of the time it's the end user — the customer — who says, well, I want this type of window. So sometimes you can kind of sway them depending on what they're trying to do. For instance, there's that energy grant from the federal government. A lot of people come in, but you have to hit the current standard of the Energy Rating, which is 34 currently. Right. So if you don't hit that, then you

19:34know your energy audit is going to fail and you're not going to get the grant back. So obviously your windows are very important. Yes. And sometimes a lot of people don't know that. So you try to explain — because they want grills in there. And grills are unfortunately aluminum, so aluminum conducts heat, conducts cold, and therefore it takes down your energy rating. And once they find that out they're like, okay, well then I'm not going to go with the grills, I'll just take a

19:58standard window. And yeah, every single one of our windows — including what I'd call our contractor-grade or stock windows — those all hit the minimum target of 34 for energy rating. Is there anything installation-wise you've heard from contractors — like, yeah, we like this line better? I mean, they're shimming them in, they've got the right dimensions, they're on the rough opening. It's probably not much different, and they're

20:27fastening with whatever fasteners. But anything the contractors seem to really like or not like? From what I hear, they like working with our window because it's a robust frame — it's a one-piece frame. The brick mold, the frame, and the returns are all one piece. So is that the ALLSCO premium window you're talking about? The ALLSCO premium window, right — which goes to every one of our vendors and

20:53our sister companies. Okay. So when they put it in, they just say it's robust — they like the rigidity of it when they're installing because it feels... that's like your Ford Model T, right? Yeah. And a lot of companies — a lot of our competitors — still have a good-better-best window lineup. We only have our window. There's one line plus our stock line. So when people say, well, these people are quoting me this or giving me

21:23this, I'm like, I've got to make sure I'm comparing apples to apples. Because sometimes they'll be like, well, they're less expensive. I get that, but our window is our top window — because we only have one line. So this is an advantage you would say you have when dealing with your main competitors like Kohltech, Atlantic Windows, and who are the others? Atlantic, Global, and Extreme. Okay. So yeah, we

21:47put as much value as possible into the window. We don't cheap out on hardware. Quality over everything. So we use European-style hardware from Roto, we use Cardinal glazing, and our frames and sash systems are very close to the thickness they were back in the early '90s. Over time, why did that change then? Procedures have changed, extrusions have changed — you can thin

22:17out the walls and still meet certain specs versus an eight-inch exterior wall. Sort of like that, exactly. The extrusion standard changed over time just for saving material and saving costs, et cetera. And things being made a bit better. But we've kept our old wall thicknesses from way back when. So many times we'll hear a contractor come in and say, yeah, when I put ALLSCO's in I need an extra set of hands, because that's how much heavier

22:43they are to get into the rough opening versus if I use XYZ — yeah, they're a little bit lighter. So our frames are beefy. We have a lot of reinforcement. We use quite a bit of steel in our products. For example, our single-hung and side-sliders — our meeting rails, our sash rails are all reinforced with steel inside. Doesn't matter if the sash is two inches or 10 inches wide versus 35 inches wide — they're reinforced no matter what. And that's going to

23:08make the product a lot more expensive to produce. It does. But when you look at it over the volume of all the products we're making, it's not that much more. And you look at the return — the return essentially means we don't have the callbacks. We don't have sashes bowing in the field, or stuff that's not locking correctly because the sashes are all crooked. Because again, everything is heavy-duty: the locks are heavy-duty, the reinforcements are

23:36heavy-duty. It's all steel, and it's not thin steel — we're talking mostly 14-gauge galvanized steel. Some are 12-gauge galvanized steel. That's an eighth of an inch of steel built into the window. What about PVC versus the hybrid with the aluminum cladding — what do you recommend to people if they're asking what's the difference and why go with one over the other? The main reason hybrid has taken over in

24:04popularity is because of colors. So can you produce the same colors with just straight PVC? Well, it's not just that — it's that there's a lot more painting now. And at least with aluminum, it takes paint better. It's just — you can have your PVC window as a hybrid. So what it is, it's aluminum cladding. You can have on your shelf brown, beige, black — if you want a blue window, dark, you can. It's just

24:30clad on top, it's snapped on. And it's a lot easier to produce when, instead of having to paint the whole thing, you can just buy the extrusion already pre-coated, and that makes it quicker for the manufacturing process. The other thing too is that frames have gone from three-and-a-quarter inches to four-and-a-half inches — frame depth has increased because we've gone from two-by-four walls to two-by-six walls. If you're building in Quebec you're building two-by-

24:55eights, and there are people doing ICF walls that are 12 inches thick. So what happens is that manufacturers have started to increase the depth of the window. Once you get to a four-and-a-half-inch frame, you're recessing the glass further into the house — because you want the glass on the warm side. Yes. So by doing that, you've now created a recess. And with low-E — because low-E reflects sunlight, reflects the UV — what happens is

25:23you have the sun hitting the low-E, it's bouncing off the glass. And now instead of hitting the ground — because the glass is recessed — it's hitting the frame. Then what happens is everyone in the industry uses heat-reflective paint, which then reflects back, hits the glass, and it starts bouncing back and forth — to the point that the frame starts to superheat and the frame starts to weaken, because it's now reaching 120 to 140 degrees Celsius in the sunlight because

25:51of the heat reflection between the low-E and the paint. And once the frame weakens like that, it will eventually start to fall apart — it'll bow, or you can put your finger right through the vinyl. So the aluminum cladding is really where that came from. Once you went to four-and-a-half-inch frames — you don't see this with a standard three-and-a-quarter-inch frame. But with clad, you're going to go to four-and-a-half-inch because you're just cladding it to

26:13be able to stop that effect. Because then you notice that when this happens with the clad, at least the aluminum is holding up versus the vinyl. It is — at the end of the day it is plastic. It has its limits. Can you speak at all to the Royal cellular composite siding? Is that something you've sold yet? I'm assuming that's going to take a pretty high volume to sell something like that. Is that even on your radar at this point?

26:37We can get it — same time as the other stuff. Like, I've had a customer out in Alma, on the Fundy Coast, came in and said, I want that siding. I said, all right, no problem — ordered the siding, did the takeoff and everything, and it came on the same siding truck as our normal vinyl siding. It's just an extra — cost about thirty dollars more a square foot. It's definitely a

27:05pricey — it's definitely a pricier siding. But it is definitely one of the better sidings I've seen. Okay. And when you put it in, it's paintable too — you know what I mean? It has a multitude of... I'd say it's versatile. Yeah, versatility. So you've got the presence of wood, exactly. Because it even has the wood grain you can feel. It's kind of similar — well, I mean, Mac Metal has products that have a wood-grain look on them, or there's

27:36a cladding product for commercial where they actually digitally print a wood grain. What's it called — it's different from those, but it's kind of the same effect in that degree. Instead of a vinyl sticker on this, it's literally embossed into it. So you'll never lose that feeling of the wood grain. Yes, embossed — yes. And it's close to a quarter-inch to half-inch thick. So, one of the guys who've used it for

28:04installing it — they like the product. They said it's so easy to install, it's great. And every 50 feet you do have to add a spacing board just because it'll move, right — weather-wise, it'll start to sag. It's fairly light. Yeah. But it can take abuse though. Okay, yeah. So I'm bringing it up because I find it very interesting. There are so many different cladding products, but I'm also thinking in the back of my mind — as far as growth, and you

28:32see, look at the multi-res — the same thing in New Brunswick, to a maybe lesser degree, just because of the size of the population. But there are lots of high-volume projects. If there's an architect listening who hasn't heard of that product, or a cladding contractor — there's a dozen of them — I mean, these are just cladding contractors, they're not building the homes, they're just doing siding. It's a product they'd probably like to take a look

28:55at if they haven't heard of it, or maybe even give it a try in a building. Because all of a sudden you could have — I'd compare it almost to a cement board cladding that they use, right? It's similar to that, except it's lighter and probably less expensive, I'm guessing. So what we haven't talked about much is entrance doors and patio doors. What can we extract from those two categories? There are

29:25just so many options, right? As far as — it's probably the most-used product and the most complex product to build and to install too, sometimes, depending on the hardware. These are very intricate. Not everyone can install the hardware on all these different kinds of products, right? It takes skill — if the hinges are off, your door is going to lean and it's not going to close. Yeah. So what about installing — just to start — do you have some install crews for some of the doors,

29:50or not? Well, the All Weather group installs all the doors. Okay. And again, in Moncton, like Remy said, we use our current contractors — we'll send leads to them to do it. But yeah, doors in general have come a long way. There's a lot of stuff that's changed with doors as far as the efficiency of installation and producing them — not necessarily the efficiency of installation per se, but just the product lines. If we look at it, it's more — no, actually,

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32:09consultation at pivotbookkeeping.com. No, actually, it's getting more complex. Because what's happened is that windows, for the longest time, have been through the ringer with regards to testing and certification. They've been through test labs. And really, up until about 2010 to 2015, doors were sort of left alone — they didn't really have to be tested. Everyone was building a door and there wasn't really enough standardization or policing on what people were doing with doors. Once the new building codes came

32:45into effect in 2015, NAFS was introduced. Then NAFS got pushed in, and doors had to follow that standard. Then things started to happen — we started to see a lot more testing on doors: how the doors are constructed, how tight the doors are. Because you used to have people that would build doors that were very loosely constructed — you'd close the leaf and it wouldn't be really tight. It could leak air because it was just a door. Now it's got a whole group

33:09of testing. So now they're extremely tight, there's less play. You know, before you could probably be a sixteenth of an inch off on your plumb and say, ah, it works. Now it doesn't work anymore because we've closed the gap by that much. It's not just about thirty seconds — exactly, after thirty seconds you have operational problems. So all those things have changed. The sill systems have changed, the sweeps, the weather stripping. Most manufacturers, if not all, now have dual weather stripping on doors — not just your

33:36foot weather strip — they have a secondary fin with a strip, which is a poly-flex. So all these things have been added to doors. The amount of different glass packages, slab styles, colors, glass — it's exploding compared to what it used to be. There's no longer just "I'm buying a single door." It's a door with two sidelights. And what continues to be a struggle in this market — in the Maritime market — is that we are in a harsh climate. We have bad winters,

34:04we have windstorms, we have ice storms. We're not in Florida, we're not in California. So the door styles that people are buying sometimes don't necessarily suit the climate. Some people will want a double operating door — it's not designed for a front entrance. If you're living in Florida or California, fine, because of the consistent climate and temperature. Exactly. If you're living in Arizona, you're not worried about rain infiltration. But if

34:33you're here, you're worried about rain, you're worried about water infiltration. So there are still these issues. The manufacturers build a lot of different things now, but there's still that problem where certain doors are just not made for this climate. So when it comes to manufacturing in the plant — what's the square footage of the plant there in New Brunswick? 77,000 square feet. Okay, so that's a big space.

35:02And it's jam-packed. Yeah, every square inch has been utilized. There's not a square inch left. No. So what's the assembly process like when you're manufacturing these doors? You've got a lot of different parts coming in from all over as far as gathering the ingredients, and then you're putting it together. Like, what's... So a large portion of the floor space — not just the doors — the door shop probably takes the

35:23biggest floor space, just for raw materials. Yeah, and the most manpower too. Not necessarily the most — actually, the most specialized manpower, because you need guys that are very, very good with their hands. They're almost artistic. They have very, very good craftsmanship capabilities. What's the background that most of these guys working there have? Do they have a millwork background? Initially, millwork. But a lot of them have been

35:49in construction — they've either been installers, they've worked on construction crews. The guys that are maybe getting a little bit older and don't want the heavy lifting anymore and want to do something more detailed. Is that a lot of what makes up the door shop? Probably — if you don't want heavy lifting, the door shop is not where you need to go. The doors are getting bigger and bigger as time goes on. We build some big doors

36:13sometimes. But it is very specialized — very, very specialized. And you have to understand that the door is likely the most important purchase for fenestration products in a customer's house. It's what they're going to use every single day. They may have a window in a bedroom that they're never going to open. Yeah, they might open it and leave it for the summer and then, exactly. But the door — you go in and out every single day. And now the door is becoming the home's

36:38showpiece. Just like the kitchen used to be — it was the trophy on the inside. For the outside, it's the front entry. It's your curb appeal. Right. So people are going into fiberglass, they're going wood-grain, they're going with heavy stains, specialized paints — doing all of this to get the best curb appeal possible. So the door is the focal point of the home. It's the piece that has to have the most care in building, shipping,

37:05as well as installation. Do you see a lot of homeowners with entrance systems that aren't just a single door slab? Are those pretty common — double doors, sidelights? Yeah, seven out of ten. For your front door, it's got either one sidelight or two sidelights — yeah, two sidelights and a transom. It's all about any number of different materials for the slab itself. And this market is still mostly steel. Yeah, I would say 90%. Because it has to be? Well, no, it's just what

37:34everyone's been used to using. But I do see the odd one that's maybe a wood product, a hardwood, or fiberglass. An actual true wood — less than one percent. Because you can get an entry system — let's say a door and two sidelights in a stained fiberglass — for maybe a couple thousand. We'll call it between $2,000 and $5,000, depending on your glass package. Going to an all-wood product, a very high-end product — you're looking

37:59at $25,000 to $30,000 for the entry system. So there's a big price gap. Those are very specialized products. There's got to be some homes up in Bedford or something — the top one percent. Down in the peninsula here, there's probably a few. Yeah. But steel is just the most commonly used — it's got the most embossment styles that people want. If you're using fiberglass, normally they want something more durable — they want

38:25something that's going to stand the test of time, better insulating value. And if you're using a slab with a wood grain, you have the option of staining it so it looks like a wood door but it's a fiberglass door — so it looks like wood but you're not paying a wood price. Yeah. And a lot of times what we'll suggest too is to add — similar to the siding product we were just talking about — it has that wood effect exactly. Yeah. So usually for a

38:48fiberglass door, you want to add a multi-point lock, which pins at three points — the top, the middle, and the bottom. That helps with any warping that might occur — whether it sits in the sun all day or gets cold. Right, so it'll want to warp depending on how big your door is. So the multi-point lock helps with securing that door tight every time. Okay. So what about patio doors? That's got to be interesting. So patio doors for us has been a

39:16pretty standard sliding — well, interesting journey, we'll call it. Yeah. It's not like it was a big sales point right now — well, it sounds like it is popular. I mean, it's on pretty much every house you're going to build. Exactly. And the thing is, for us at ALLSCO — we've always, back in the '90s, built our own patio door. Then we got out of building patio doors. We were buying a

39:39patio door from a manufacturer out in Quebec — we would resell it — and we did that for many, many years. But then around 2015 to 2016, I started looking at it again. We looked at everything and said, we need to come back to making our own patio doors specifically. So then in 2018 we introduced the line and started doing that. So how does that happen — how do you integrate a new line within ALLSCO internally? Is that your initiative, and then you kind of

40:07get some people around you, design the product, put it together? The logistics initiative that I put together — first and foremost, because we were looking at pricing, competitiveness, market. We needed to get back into that product line. It's pretty innovative, then. Well, what we started with really was — we didn't reinvent the wheel. We bought — well, we started with what we call a knockdown program. So it's a

40:34program where the extruders have already set it up — it's already pre-machined, the frame is knocked down. Is that what you mean? Yeah. So essentially, it's like you buy the parts — like an IKEA. It's already pre-machined, you just put it together based on your configuration. And then we moved out of that and went to a full lineal program. So we build the patio door from scratch. It comes in as fully lineal extrusions — we cut, we mill, we machine,

40:59we assemble from scratch. And we can make any configuration you're looking for — five-foot, six-foot, eight-foot, nine-foot, twelve-foot, sixteen-foot, transom, sidelights. What's a typical size? So six-foot is your most common — six-foot width by six-and-a-half to eighty-one inches in height. Yeah. And mostly you'll get five-foot patio doors coming from the renovation side — homes built in the 1980s and that era. They weren't as big, so

41:34they go with the standard five-foot patio door. But we're seeing a big uptake in nine-foot — the three-panel nine-foot door. We're seeing a big uptake in twelve-foot — the fixed/operative/fixed, or two center panels opening in the center. We're seeing more of those. The nine-footers are by far becoming the most popular thing we're seeing on new construction builds — even on semi-detached homes and row houses — we're seeing them all have nine-foot.

42:01So they're higher-end semis — they're not just your standard six-foot. And we're seeing it on apartment buildings as well. We did one in Moncton — we're delivering one in a couple of weeks. It's all nine-foot patio doors, five stories. All nine-foot doors. How many patio doors in this apartment? Is it 50 units? It's 20. Okay. That's for Sean — Sean's the one? And who's Sean? What company? He's our senior — he's here with us. The senior sales guy, 26 years in. So yeah,

42:28he's with us — you're talking about the contract. He's the senior sales guy we've got. Okay. 26 years in. So yeah. So how is there an initiative, or is there a goal, to try — as you mentioned, a lot of your sales are single-family homes, maybe duplexes, maybe semi-detached. But obviously you do some larger projects. Is that something on the agenda to change — to try and supply more

43:00high volume? Because I'm just thinking of the different scales throughout — thinking of Nova Scotia particularly, aside from New Brunswick, which is probably similar. So many 20-to-50-unit buildings happen in rural Nova Scotia, and then even 100 units, and then in the downtown core, 200-plus. You know, it's different — whether they're using PVC or your frame types or different styles of patio doors and windows, they're going to consider. But there's a lot of residential, like

43:31wood-frame, say under-six-storey buildings that are 80 to 100 units that you could be supplying. Is that on the agenda? We quote them when the tenders come across our desk. And strategically, we're trying to go more into that market. Because in HRM, Halifax, and even New Brunswick, the MDUs are starting to increase. Single dwellings are decreasing year over year; multi-dwellings are increasing. That's where we need to go, that's where

44:01our focus is going to have to be. And what we know we need is we need to make sure the infrastructure is available. And coming down to it — you can't approach that market the same way we approach a residential market. It's a completely different market, a different set of rules to play by. So you need project managers — you need guys that are going to take

44:26the leads from the GCs and say, here's your building — let me get this all figured out for you. Do all the quoting, go back and forth, talk with the architect. Sometimes the architect is going to put something on the plans and you're going to look at it and say, okay, that's impossible, it cannot be built, or it shouldn't be built depending on where it's going. You're going to talk with the HVAC guys to make sure everyone's in line with what they're doing. They're going to be on

44:48site when the stuff is delivered. They're going to check the installs from the GCs to make sure they're within compliance. They're going to be back and forth on site and make adjustments to the windows after install to make sure the operation is all perfect. They're going to go back in and put all the screens in after construction — because the screens would otherwise get destroyed or dirty because they're drywalling and everything else. So there are all these things that have to happen

45:10where we have to put that infrastructure in place. To make sure if we want to go into that market — which we know we have to — we will go into that market. We have to be ready for the customer demand, because it's a whole different customer. It's not a homeowner, it's a contractor who has multiple units that we have to make sure we handle accordingly. Yeah, I think the timing is right for that, for sure, and Nova Scotia should be good for it. I mean, you

45:36know, there are obviously other competitors out there too. But the opportunity is so big right now in that space that the opportunities are definitely there. What would be the first step then? It's not going to be a problem to manufacture more because you have the output capacity. But it's not going to be — yeah, you might need to hire a project manager or someone to deal with design and the contractors. Other than that, is it

46:03logistically just higher volume — you're just shipping out more? Yeah, there are going to be project managers who go on site. There's going to be logistics — more fleet, more trailers, more vans to move the stuff. And the contractor is going to be installing your windows on these ones, for sure? Yes, they are. But we still need someone on site. We still need, logistically, more fleet, more trailers, more vans. Almost like a project

46:27manager specialist — right, specifically for that. And then once that's set up, you just implement it in sales, and yeah. And there's got to be focus with the architects, making sure you're on the spec, making sure you're being spec'd correctly. And ten-to-one, the project managers are going to have two or three GCs and they're going to build that relationship. They're not going to have 50,000 customers — like Remy could have in the course of a year, between

46:51150 to 250 clients that walk through his door. Okay. You know, a project manager is going to have his three or four key customers that he's going to deal with. Yeah. The next project manager deals with another three or four customers. It's not going to be widespread, because you need to build a relationship, understand the crews, get to know each other. Just the detail involved in each project would be massive, so you wouldn't be able

47:12to do that on top of being a retail sales guy or a contractor sales guy. The focus would have to be laser-focused on that one project. Yeah. And I'm kind of digging into this and pressing it a little bit, because it's interesting — it's not like we're dealing with a multinational corporation. It's a fair-size local company, a big local company. But just to implement a change like that — what it looks like, what the first step is —

47:36you have to get the chicken before the egg, so to speak. You have to talk to the architects and have one or two big clients first before you spend the money to implement the plan, or... Yeah, it used to have to be that. And you were saying these projects might be complex, but a lot of these jobs — let's say six- or four-storey wood-frame buildings, 80 units — a lot of the time

47:59depending on the architect, depending on the situation, a lot of it is mirror image from one floor to the next. A lot of it's compartmentalized. So really, as long as you can supply one unit and you have the volume capabilities, maybe it's not as complicated as it seems. Oh, it is — but it's the follow-through after, yeah. It's the service during, yeah. And I'm not saying it's not complicated — I just mean, like, in a way it's

48:22more just the service before, during, and after, right? Like, you've got to make sure everything's right — it's like you dot your i's and cross your t's for every single unit, every window, every door. Make sure everything seals properly, like you were saying earlier. Making sure if the window is tilting a little bit you make the adjustment, make sure it's on right. If there's a little bit too much spray foam, you'd have to take that out.

48:46You know, and plus if it's a new contract, you're going to want to service them really extremely well. 100%. And even though the products are probably mirror image floor to floor, depending how many floors you're going up, there may be building code implications. Your first, second, or third floor might be regular construction, and then you might have to go to a different type of

49:12construction on your fourth or fifth or sixth floor. There might be external reinforcements, there might be some extra steel that has to be added, additional capping — it depends on how high you're going. And it depends where it is: if it's out on the water, the wind's going to be a lot stronger on the water than it is in the woods. So then you're going to have to change the windows. Because there are limitations to the window, you've got to add — yeah, like Andre was saying,

49:34more steel. So you're going to have to change the product itself. Yeah. And sometimes even the actual configuration — they may want a larger glass unit. You look at it and say, okay, this window is being put on the 10th floor — you can't do that, you have way too much glass, too much deflection. You need to break it up. I can get you the same size window, but instead of this massive picture window, you're going to break it up into two or three sections, just

50:00to get it down, because it's just too big. It just depends on where it's being located, because glass only has so much flexibility — otherwise it'll just snap. Yeah. I'm trying to extract as much as I can from the scenario here, thinking of an architect right now who's listening, or even a developer who puts up buildings of 100 units or more. Really, all you need is one or two of those people to reach out and be interested in a certain

50:27relationship to kind of initiate that process of moving into that space. And then really, maybe your statement is that ALLSCO is quality — right? So if this is a developer who takes the products a little more seriously and the building itself, which you are seeing more now — and you're seeing that more for reasons like Net Zero, or because building envelope is a big thing — developers and builders are going to do

50:55things at the lowest cost they can, unless there's a good enough reason. But there almost is a good enough reason now for a lot of them. So you're in a good position there too. And the people we've talked to on our platform and media — when it comes to things like Net Zero and building envelope — quality over quantity is a big factor in that space. So

51:22regardless, it's a very big factor. But the overall service for a big GC building a big unit — it's the product alone that won't do what they need. You need to bring the full service: before, during, after. The product has got to be the entire package. The product alone won't sway them. And the thing is, those decisions are also years in advance — so none of the GCs in, say, HRM are going to

51:53make a decision on windows — they're making it two years before the windows are going in, at least. Exactly. And the buildings going up this year weren't decided this year. They were decided in 2020, 2022, three years ago. I know. So it's a long lead. So as we get project managers on board and start to court those GCs and start talking to those architects, it's really looking at: you're building a relationship for the 2025 build. And 2024

52:17is actually already gone in my opinion. You're looking at 2025, 2026, before you can start pushing that — unless you get a couple of quick wins and get lucky on a couple of tenders, and get some momentum. But once you start building, we have a couple of good GCs we've built some good relationships with, we've had a couple of projects, so it'll all come — it's just the timing and the effort we've got to put in,

52:39and it needs a lot of work. Wow. Yes, lots to think about there. What about PEI? We didn't touch on that much. You have an office in Charlottetown and it's been really busy there. Obviously — are you spending any time there, you two, individually? How are things going in that market? Yeah, specifically — the smallest province with the smallest population is probably one of our busiest sectors out of all the provinces. The amount of product we send

53:11over to Prince Edward Island is an incredible amount. Quick trip too — it's a quick trip. And we go to PEI — we have two tractor-trailer loads going over twice a week. Right, so we're there twice a week, sometimes three times a week. There are weeks where we're overloaded — it's two trucks going, or three trucks going, to get it over there. We have a lot of good, loyal dealers. Are those trucks making like a day

53:35trip — it's just a day trip? Yeah. So we try to do, for example, one side of the Island — the East Side for one trip, the West Side for the other trip. Yeah. But yeah, it's a very popular market, a very good market. And it's a good thing that our outside sales rep lives on PEI too. Yeah, okay — we haven't mentioned his name. Jeff Leary. Yeah, okay. He lives on PEI. Yeah. It's a small

54:00place, so he just picks up the windows on the other side. Yeah. But you know, he's local — in the know. Everyone knows each other, it's a very, very small community. Yeah, I'm from there. Yeah, which is great. And even our sales manager at ALLSCO, Charles, is from PEI. So they all know each other, they all went to school together, they played hockey, they played ball — they've done everything together. They're all

54:27very, very close. And it's been a tremendous market for us — we've had a lot of success. A lot of windows we've made have gone into Prince Edward Island. And then Newfoundland — have you touched any jobs at all in that region? It's just tough, business-wise. We used to have a very good presence in Newfoundland, we had multiple dealers there. Some of those dealers don't exist

54:52anymore, for various reasons. But Newfoundland is a very tough market to go into. It's either you're going all in, or you can't just go in saying you'll sell a couple of jobs — you have to go all in. Because it is a very, very big province. It doesn't look like it, but it's a massive province, spread out everywhere. You could send stuff to Mount Pearl or St. John's, and it's going to go all the way to Twillingate or way up north.

55:21And service-wise — how do you service them? Because something is going to happen: they have a broken piece of glass, or something happened, or maybe there's an installation issue and you've got to go check. Then how do you get people there? So it's very, very hard to service. If you're going in, you have to go all in — either have local boots on the ground who know the

55:44area properly, with central distribution where you can ship the product and then ship back out. Because the shipping cost alone to get to Newfoundland is extremely high. It's cheaper to get to Quebec, to Winnipeg — Winnipeg is cheaper than Newfoundland. That's interesting. Yeah, you can get to Winnipeg cheaper than Newfoundland with your products. The issue becomes the backhaul. So when you're shipping — because technically it's road transport — that's

56:10why, right? It's a longer distance — it is long. But it's not necessarily the distance that's the problem. It's because there's nothing coming out of Newfoundland. So let's say you're contracting a local carrier. I'd say, I need you to do my Newfoundland runs — which we've done before, many times. They're charging you the trip there and the trip back, because they've got nothing to come back with. They're coming back either empty — yeah, exactly, they don't have four other clients on the way back. No, exactly. That's

56:35the problem. Yeah. And if you're going with your own internal fleet — which we've analyzed 100 times — that driver's gone for a week by the time he gets there. Oh yeah, we've done it, we've considered it. I've done the math 100 times. And you have your internal truck fleet anyway? Yeah, we have our tractors. So you've considered shipping there? Yeah. But the thing is, the guy's gone for five days. Because by the time he gets there, he

57:00goes to the boat — who wants that job? That's the problem. Some of our competitors do have those guys, and that's great for them. In the future, exactly — you just have to find the right driver who wants to do it. And it's a routine thing, so this guy leaves Sunday night, he's not back until Thursday or Friday. Because North Sydney is going to be a one-day trip just to get there, then you have

57:22the ten-hour boat ride, then you have the whole Port aux Basques thing, going all the way to St. John's. You have a massive trip to get through, and then you've got to make your way back — because you're not driving through Newfoundland, you're driving around Newfoundland. Yeah, there's no straight way through. So it's quite a whole undertaking. Yeah. So Remy, you've been in the company for five years and you said it's been the best work

57:46situation — you did say that? Best decision I ever made. Because he works with me — you've got to say that sitting next to him. Please, I'll just talk to the wife tonight. No, I'm just going to ask: what would you say the best parts of it are, if you could articulate that? Is it just the people, is it the products, is it the passion for it? It's a multitude of things — it's just everything

58:10together. The people I work with are fantastic — we can pick on each other, we can bounce ideas off each other, and everything just works well. And then on top of that, the contractors, the customers. I'm a people person, I love talking to people, so it's great to have that one-on-one conversation. And you know, answering their questions — because some people come in with essentially a blank page. They have no idea what

58:36they're looking for or what they want. So after talking and going through it, it makes the job worthwhile when someone tells you, thanks very much for your help. So yeah. And it sounds like too — because the operation isn't just the retail front, it's wholesale, retail, and commercial, and then you have the whole manufacturing side in-house, and all the different products, and then some product lines that you carry on the

59:03side that you don't manufacture. But it sounds like you're constantly learning, right? There's no way you can know everything. I know you're dealing with each contractor and you've got to know your stuff, but at the same time you're always going to be learning — especially, I think, maybe more so with these products than some others. Oh, definitely. Like if there's something new that comes out, I want to know the most about it, I want to see how

59:24it's installed — I want to see it. It's good to have that in your work too, yeah. Like, honestly, learning is something I always look forward to — I always look to learn something new every day. Right, yeah. It doesn't matter what it is, but try to learn something new every day. That's hard to keep — try to keep that mentality sometimes. A lot of people who have been working on something for, say, 10 or 20 years — you are going to

59:47get a sense of — you don't necessarily know it all, but you have some experience and you start to get a bit complacent. Keep an open mind at the same time, because everything's always changing. Exactly. Yeah, because eventually the rules are going to change when the new building code comes out. So now we're going to have to figure out new ways to get the ER up, or something like that. So when's the next new building code coming? 2025. Yeah. Okay. Is it every

60:10five years? It's every five years. It changed — it was every 10 years at one point, I think. At one point, but it's every five years now. Okay. So right now — and you're talking about the National Building Code, or the provincial? Well, there's only ever been a National Building Code. So the provinces will typically adopt everything from the national standard, and then they can add stuff to it — just like a municipality can add stuff via bylaws. Right, exactly. So you could have, for example,

60:35but you're still subject to the authority of the province when using it. That's right, correct. And then you have whatever the city adds on to it — the city doesn't necessarily retract, but they will add. And you're going to see different changes when it comes to your products, hardware, and detailed product requirements. On your products specifically — is there any difference between, say, Moncton and Halifax? There are differences with regard to the building code — what it requires for structural performance. The weather here

61:00is much harsher, with winds and rain. So everything is in the NAFS code, which has detailed requirements for windows. Everything goes by performance grade — the performance grade runs from PG15, PG20, PG25 — up to usually about PG70 or PG80 is where it tops out. So you may have Halifax at a PG35 or PG45, depending on where it is in Halifax, versus Moncton may only require PG25.

61:32Your product can be PG45 or PG70 — it's fine, but you have to hit that minimum first. So this area is much harsher than most areas — like outside St. John's, Newfoundland, and the Avalon Peninsula. Halifax/Dartmouth is probably the harshest climate in the Maritime area. So that's another factor too. And then for hardware in this area — not only that, but Salt Air, right? Salt air will ruin the mechanism, so you've got to move to stainless steel. You've got to think of different options. Some building envelope products are going to fade quicker — you're getting beaten up by salt air on top. Salt is the enemy when it comes to anything mechanical. Yeah, yeah.

62:02I think it's interesting, the specific differences in different parts of the market on the East Coast. And we're talking about this with you guys — you're literally two hours away, right? Yeah, right — it's not crazy, it's a two-hour drive, a couple hundred kilometres. But it's that much different in climate, yeah.

62:32Yeah, right — it's not crazy, it's a two-hour drive, but yeah, a couple hundred kilometres, but it's that much different climate, yeah.

62:44Anything else we didn't touch on? I mean, I'm sure we could go on here for a long time. Was there anything you really want to get out there? There's one thing I'd like to say — every window purchased from ALLSCO or All Weather, there's a donation to the IWK. Every year. Okay, yeah. That's a big partnership you guys have. Yeah, we started last year,

63:08we partnered up — every window, here in Halifax too, exactly. So there's a portion that goes to the IWK. There's a presentation that's usually every June or July, or whenever it is, where we're there. So as part of the manufacturing partnership, we've partnered up — at the window-sale level, we're contributing to the IWK.

63:32What about — you know, we've had different guests on the show that have been, whether it's an architect or a builder, talking about Net Zero, talking about R-2000 and different classifications of homes. You guys already talked a lot about how windows and doors, patio door systems, and entrance systems are a big thing when it comes to those designations. Are you seeing much of that? Those designations — like a Net Zero series — have you

64:05worked on some unique Net Zero homes? Smaller ones? We've worked on quite a few of them for Net Zero. And it's a combination of your windows, your insulation, and so many different things — it's like making a cake. It's not just the windows or doors only. But we work with that very closely. There are a lot of windows we've modeled and simulated. And again, like Remy said, all of our

64:34windows meet — starting from the lowest grade, or the basic entry level — Energy Star, regardless, for the window lines. Okay. So you can upgrade and go up from there. A lot of the time when you're looking at Net Zero, they're looking really for something that's triple glaze, high efficiency, as far as you can push it — solar-blocking glass, the best of the best, to get to Net Zero. The same thing for the installation:

65:00you're going to have to increase insulation. You can't just use an R-20 or R-22 batt — you're going to have to look at spray foam, interior foaming, exterior foaming on the outside. Rigid foam, all those things have to be looked at. Anything else, guys? You know, ALLSCO has been around for almost 50 years — we're getting very close to the 50-year mark. We are a family-owned business. We've been around for quite a long

65:26time, and we still plan to be around for a very long time as well. Our products stand the test of time, and we are continuing to innovate and offer new products, and continue changing things to get them as good as they can be. And the team — the team at ALLSCO, the team at All Weather — they're very, very close. Everyone works well together. It's a very, very close family. And what you'll kind of realize too, over time, is that you

65:54know — and Remy said before, it's his best decision — because for some reason, once you enter the window industry, you tend to never leave the window industry. And I don't know why that is, but if you talk to the guys that work in the window industry, most guys have been in the industry for 30 to 40 years. There's a very long tenure on those employees. Why do you think that is? Must have some insider intuition into all that. It's

66:16because you're creating something. You're not just sitting at a keyboard — you're literally building a product. Look at the guys that work in automotive — most of them love it because you see the progress. That's why I said "Model T" earlier — because it does draw a comparison. You know, we've got employees in the shop that have been there for over 40 years. Not one — we have many over 40 years of tenure. The bulk of them are in the 30-year mark.

66:45And they're there every day. They can be there every day because they love what they do. And even for myself or Remy — once you're in an industry, it's just very, very... it's a very small industry for windows and doors. Everyone knows everyone. All the competitors know each other — we all know each other by name. We have pretty cordial relationships and talk about the market. Yeah, we help each other out.

67:08Yeah, we have competitors that call us: hey, I ran out of this — can you lend me some? Because we'll lend product from each other. We're very close. It's not like that in every industry — in construction, it's pretty much the opposite, actually. But yeah, we help each other out, because one day we're going to be in need and

67:31they're going to be in need too. But yeah, it's a very, very close industry. Everyone knows each other. And a lot of times you can drive down streets and say, oh, those were our windows, or those were our doors. And I remember building that window, I remember installing that window — it was a very tricky one to do, or something like that. So yeah, it's people in our industry that I

67:53find — and Remy is a great example — who are very, very passionate about what they do. They're passionate about windows and doors. And it's easy for someone to say, yeah, it's just a window or a door. But there's a passion behind it, there's a lot more behind it than you think. Like, yeah, somebody working in some random field — you wouldn't know the depth that goes into it and the

68:17specialization — the people who have been working at it for years and years. Yeah, that's right. It's a team — it takes a team to get it done. We were talking on the way up — I still remember in the interview they asked, you know, do you know anything about windows and doors? And I was like, I know what they are, right? A lot of people think about it — you're using them every day. Yeah, that's

68:34right. You use your door every day, right? I just know what they are. But ask me what part goes with what — you just don't, right? But then I was like, well, I'll learn. And I made sure that I — like you said, passion — because as soon as I hit the ground running, it was: learn, soak up as much as you can. Right. Yeah. I've always felt that, just being around construction and interiors — whether it's interior doors or

69:00exterior doors — it's just one of those things where you get to that phase and you really have to know what you're doing. You need the hardware knowledge. Yeah. It's got to be done right. It has to be done right the first time. Yeah. And I feel like everybody where we work — everyone takes pride in their tasks. That's why you're saying 30 years, 40 years — these guys take pride in what

69:26they do, because otherwise they wouldn't be there. Yeah. And it's products that affect the consumer's home — it's not just the operation of the building, or a kitchen sink. We're building windows and doors that affect the building envelope. It's got to be done right, because if it's not done right, you have leaking problems, you have structural problems, it affects the homeowner, it affects their well-being. And it's also at the mercy of someone who — and there are a lot of owners, like you say,

69:54some people are very aware — they want to have the right windows and doors. But a lot of people pay a lot more attention to what's on their countertop, and you run into that as well. Oh yeah, absolutely. So that $15,000 goes into a solid-surface countertop instead of higher-end windows. Right, they don't even think about the windows sometimes. Yeah, because

70:17everything you use for your building envelope — whether it's your siding, your sheathing, your insulation, your roofing, your windows, your doors — that's the stuff you should be very concerned about, because it's what's holding your home together. And people don't understand that. A properly built, high-quality window is very, very important. It's part of the structural integrity of the home. You have windows now that are basically replacing stud walls. You have stuff that, you know,

70:48we've built windows that are 20 feet wide by 22 feet high — structural. These are structural walls, but they're windows. And it's holding your house — curtain wall, basically, almost. But we've built them in vinyl — these vinyl windows that are just a monstrosity, and you're looking at them going, wow. But it's part of the building envelope now. So you need to take pride in that. Absolutely — you're keeping the customer's home intact by putting the right product in place. You see some

71:14doozies on some house plans sometimes, and you're like, oh yeah, I'll try — I'll try it. Like the waterfront homes. Yeah. And then you're like, okay, well, if it's not feasible, let me find out. And that's when it gets called up — and you say, hey, I've got this in the plans. So I take it, look at it, and just dig right into it. I think snippets like this — what do you think? I'm

71:37not — you know, I'll put it out there. I am a Star Trek fan, so I am like Captain Kirk — I do not like no-win scenarios. I don't believe in a no-win scenario. So if you tell me it cannot be done, I will figure out how to do it, somehow, some way. There is a way to figure it out, and I'll figure it out. It's fun — I love the challenge too. Yeah, so it's

71:59just fun — hey, look at this one, what do you think? They're like, well, let's see. And then you know, try to get the weight down, or try to get the proper reinforcements in. Maybe we can use a different stud layout here — if it needs double king studs, or quadruple, or different header systems, maybe even steel studs somewhere. Something like that. You tell some people and they're like, okay —

72:25it can be built. Yeah, but you're going to need engineers — the engineer has to trust that, you know, yeah, I mean, that's your decision, but we can make it. And that's always fun. Very interesting. Well, it's been a pleasure chatting with both of you guys — Andre and Remy — on behalf of ALLSCO Windows and Doors. Just learning all about the company and the industry, the window and door world. And yeah, it's partly

72:57the fun for us too — just having people on all the time who are so passionate about what they do. It's uplifting. It just makes you want to keep talking. But obviously we have to stop at some point. So thank you so much for making the trip from New Brunswick and being with us. We really appreciate it and we look forward — thank you very much for having us. Yeah, thanks for the invitation. This is good. Cheers, guys. We'd like to thank our long-time sponsor

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