EP 5 · 2021-04-26 · 1:05:06
Masonry Is 22% Cheaper Than Concrete? The Load-Bearing Comeback + Why the Average Bricklayer Is 53 | Atlantic Masonry Institute & Darim Masonry
A masonry engineer and a third-generation Halifax masonry contractor make the data-backed case that load-bearing block beats wood and concrete on cost and speed — while their trade quietly ages out at an average of 53.
AS
⟶ The story, written up — a sharp read with every fact on the record. Or skip straight to the moments that matter, as clips.
// CHAPTERS — TAP TO JUMP THE PLAYER
0:04Cold open and guest introductions — Dan introduces Andrew Smith (masonry engineer, Atlantic Masonry Institute, Dalhousie grad) and Darrell Jerrett (part-owner/PM, Darim Masonry, 37 years in business).1:26Why contractors built the Atlantic Masonry Institute — AMI's origin: contractors, manufacturers, suppliers and the union funding design-community education to stop unconstructable drawings and extras; the CMDC national link; a worked example of swapping full solid block for hollow-and-grouted (cheaper, lighter, same fire rating).6:32Darim Masonry: family company and staging technology — From Cape Breton roots to 50-100 employees; telehandlers, hydro mobiles and EZ Scale heavy-duty swing-stage scaffolding that boost productivity and reach tight urban sites.9:42Nova Centre, Queen's Marque, and pricing the unknown — Two-plus years on the Nova Centre amid daily change orders; hanging a 2-inch sandstone ceiling at Queen's Marque (a first for Nova Scotia); taking 'a strong number' on unfamiliar scope; foremen as the glue of the trade.15:38Inside AMI: members, manufacturers, union and the MASS software — 45-50 members, local block plants (Shaw Brick, Casey Concrete, VJ Rice), a union-inclusive 'industry voice', and MASS structural design software for masonry elements.19:09Estimating masonry by hand — and the save AMI made possible — Why masonry takeoffs are deceptively complex and still done by hand at Darim; habits as scope insurance; the stack-pattern brick veneer story where CSA A370 joint reinforcing nearly got missed in the bid.24:26Why masonry uniquely needs an institute, plus the union case — Masonry is both architectural and structural yet barely taught at UNB/Dalhousie; union benefits — manpower, accountability, pensions — let workers 'buy into' a career.28:50An aging trade and the ergonomics fightback — Average bricklayer age is 53; teenagers have held a 2x4 but never a brick; sensor-suit ergonomics research at Waterloo feeding college technique training; staging tech extending careers.37:00The load-bearing masonry comeback: the Moncton numbers — AMI's funded comparative study: 4% premium over wood framing, ~22% cheaper than reinforced concrete in Moncton, 16 weeks faster, two-hour fire rating built in; the Fox Creek multi-res demonstration project; local block supply as a COVID-era lead-time hedge.47:08Irving Shipyard and three generations of Jerretts — Darim's biggest block job — 30-40 men, three crews through a winter at the Halifax Shipyard — and a family tree where grandfather, father, uncles and the estimator are all in the trade.50:28Rebuilding the pipeline: pride, NSCC redesign, safety-first training — Selling the trade on visible accomplishment; the trade advisory committee that stretched NSCC's program from 22 to 35 weeks and cut tuition from ~$9k to ~$3k; embedding safety training so apprentices are deployable day one; Darim's everyone-has-CPR policy.58:50High-school toolkit programs and wrap-up — AMI's donated-toolkit high-school masonry programs in NS and NB (Hants East, Bridgewater, Shediac, Bouctouche); the grandfather's '70 years and I don't know a thing about it'; contact details.
// THE INTRO
Daniel Arsenault hosts a rare two-sided look at one trade: Andrew Smith, masonry engineer with the Atlantic Masonry Institute (and the CMDC Atlantic office he opened in Dartmouth), and Darrell Jerrett, part-owner and PM of 37-year-old, fully unionized Darim Masonry. The first half covers why contractors funded an education-focused institute (unconstructable drawings driving extras), Darim's history and marquee work — the Nova Centre over two-plus years and a never-done-in-Nova-Scotia hanging sandstone ceiling at Queen's Marque — plus staging technology (hydro mobiles, EZ Scale swing-stage) that cuts labour cost and bodily wear. The strongest material lands at 38:43: AMI's funded Moncton study showing a four-storey load-bearing masonry building carries only a 4% premium over wood framing, comes in ~22% cheaper than reinforced concrete, and finishes 16 weeks faster — now being proven on the Fox Creek multi-res, Atlantic Canada's first fully load-bearing masonry building in 15-20 years. The back third is a frank workforce conversation: the average bricklayer is 53, recruitment still runs on family lines, and AMI's counterpunch is a redesigned NSCC program (22 to 35 weeks, tuition cut from ~$9k to ~$3k) and donated-toolkit high-school programs across NS and NB.
// THE LESSONS
See all 20 lessons ▸Contractors funded an industry institute because uneducated design teams produce unconstructable drawings, and the resulting extras slow every job — fixing education upstream is cheaper than fighting downstream.
“get on a job site that look at the drawing see that that's just not constructable”
Challenge over-specified materials: hollow block grouted solid hits the same fire, sound and structural ratings as full solid block while being cheaper and easier on labour.
“if you used hollow and gridded solid it'd be cheaper it'd be easier on the labor”
Invest in staging and lift technology (hydro mobiles, heavy-duty swing-stage) — it directly raises productivity, cuts labour cost, and unlocks tight urban sites with no scaffold footprint.
“allow us to increase our productivity and keep our labor costs down”
When bidding scope you've never built (Darim's Queen's Marque sandstone ceiling), price in the uncertainty — take 'a strong number' so you can absorb the learning curve and still stand behind the product.
“we had to take a strong number on it to make sure that we were covered”
Push trust and problem-solving down to foremen — the people in the work every day are the experts, and they're the glue that holds a labour-intensive trade together.
“we lean on those guys heavily and and the collaboration from our experience”
An association is stronger as an 'industry voice' than a factional one: AMI includes union and non-union members, and the union backs it because a healthier industry lifts everyone.
“we're really more of an industry voice rather than the unionized contractor's voice”
Consistent estimating habits are scope insurance: a fixed personal process for opening drawings and taking notes is what catches the item that was missed last bid.
“those habits are making sure that you're hitting everything”
A free technical backstop pays for itself at bid time: one call to AMI caught CSA A370 joint reinforcing on a stack-pattern veneer that wasn't in the drawings or the estimator's numbers.
“oh freak i didn't bring that i didn't carry that in my numbers”
The union's recruitment edge is the package, not the wage: pensions, health plans and top rate let tradespeople 'buy into' a career instead of a job.
“it allows you to buy into your career a little bit more”
Masonry's demographic cliff is measurable — the average bricklayer is 53 — and the root cause is exposure: most teenagers have handled a 2x4 but never a brick.
“the average age of a bricklayer is 53 years old”
Treat worker bodies as a capital asset: ergonomics research (sensor-suited bricklayers at Waterloo) and one-level staging extend careers and reduce downtime in a heavy trade.
“how much force are they putting on their back how much force they putting on their shoulders”
Load-bearing masonry is cost-competitive again: in Moncton it priced at a 4% premium over wood framing, ~22% under reinforced concrete, and 16 weeks faster to total completion.
“masonry was only a four percent premium over conventional wood framing”
To open a market, prove the numbers then prove the build: AMI funded a three-way design study, published it, and recruited a developer for a demonstration project (Fox Creek, Moncton).
“one aspect is showing that the numbers work the second is actually backing it up”
A fully local supply chain (block plants within ~200 km) is a pricing and lead-time hedge — masonry held prices through COVID while lumber quotes were good for only a week.
“we have the materials here locally we make them here locally we have our laborers here locally”
Family lines still do the trade's recruiting — almost every bricklayer knew one — which sustains the craft but masks a failure to communicate the trade to outsiders.
“we struggle from a communication standpoint getting our trade out there for new bricklayers”
Sell a trade on visible accomplishment: the recruiting pitch that works is pride — you can see the wall you built at the end of the day and point it out to your kids for decades.
“you visually get to see what you've completed at the end of the day”
Industry can redesign its own pipeline: a trade advisory committee stretched NSCC's masonry program from 22 to 35 weeks, qualifying it as a government-funded core program and cutting tuition from ~$9k to ~$3k.
“they dropped their tuition from about 9 000 to about 3 000”
Bake safety certification into pre-apprenticeship so graduates are deployable day one — employers turn away willing students who arrive without the tickets to step on site.
“do you have this this this and this for your safety that i can put you to work”
Over-train for redundancy: Darim requires CPR for every employee (beyond NS rules) so no single absence leaves a crew exposed or a role unfillable.
“everybody has to have cpr it's not what the rule is in in nova scotia”
Seed the pipeline in high schools with skin in the game: AMI donates toolkits and contractor time, conditional on the school running the masonry program every year.
“we'll give you guys five toolkits you can keep them as long as you run this program every year”
// CLIPS FROM THIS EPISODE
Framework · 1:42
“one of the biggest hurdles that they were coming up towards is education”
Framework · 5:21
“a contractor can reach out to me and they'll say listen I got this firewall here”
Story · 6:53
“we've been in business for 35 years my father started this company from the ground up”
Framework · 8:56
“the city's growing up rather than out and the buildings are getting bigger”
Story · 9:55
“queen's marque which is a wall of sandstone product on the exterior there”
Hot take · 14:48
“for trades like masonry the foremen are really the glue that holds it together”
Hot take · 31:40
“how many teenagers have worked with a two by four how many of them have held a brick”
Framework · 38:24
“let's design this building with load-bearing masonry conventional wood framing and reinforced concrete”
Framework · 40:11
“for the moncton market specifically we were about 22 percent cheaper than a reinforced concrete building”
Story · 47:08
“you mentioned earlier you guys worked on the shipyard”
Emotional · 50:44
“showing up and taking pride in your work because masonry's that trade”
Story · 53:03
“when I got into this trade I never planned to be a bricklayer I was going to school”
Story · 55:57
“they came to us and they're like what can we do we're really stuck here you guys are the industry”
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// FEATURED BUSINESSES
Atlantic Masonry Institute
Atlantic Canada industry association of masonry contractors, manufacturers and suppliers that promotes…
Canada Masonry Design Centre (CMDC)
A not-for-profit Canadian association created and funded by its for-profit masonry contractor members …
Darim Masonry Limited
Family-owned masonry contractor in Bedford, Nova Scotia, working on commercial, industrial and residen…
// FACT-CHECKED ✓ web-verified, with sources
✓ VERIFIED
Load-bearing masonry in Moncton priced at only a 4% premium over conventional wood framing.
CMDC website states '4.1% cost premium' vs wood frame. The full study range is 4-8% depending on underground parking inclusion. The 4% figure is defensible as the floor of the range and matches the CMDC summary statement.
SOURCE ▸✓ VERIFIED
Load-bearing masonry finishes 16 weeks faster than alternatives.
The 16-weeks figure is specifically masonry vs cast-in-place concrete WITHOUT underground parking. With underground parking, masonry is 18 weeks faster vs concrete and 14 weeks faster vs wood. Vs wood WITHOUT parking: 10 weeks faster. The '16 weeks' figure is real but context-specific; the episode p…
SOURCE ▸// COMPANIES & ORGS ✓ verified
Atlantic Masonry Institute ▸Darim Masonry Limited ▸Canada Masonry Design Centre (CMDC) ▸Andrew SmithDarrell JerrettNova Centre HalifaxQueen's Marque
// PROJECTS NAMED
Nova Centre HalifaxQueen's MarqueHalifax (Irving) ShipyardFox Creek multi-res (Moncton)Shearwater helicopter hangarsAndrew Hall residence (UPEI)
SOURCE: podscope · public episode data · 1HHlkddHg9k