How a New Brunswick Cladding Company Beat the Labour Shortage with Single-Ply Roofing | Century Exteriors

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1:22Welcome back to the Atlantic Construction Podcast. Excited to have our guests today — gentlemen over from New Brunswick with Century Exteriors. I have Jeremy Mean, founder and president, and Jason St. Thomas, project manager. So thanks, gentlemen, for joining us today. Excited to have a conversation with you guys. Yeah, really appreciate the call and look forward to the conversation. It's — listen, I've listened to a couple of the broadcasts in the past and I see you guys are doing awesome things, and —

1:53It's a pleasure to be on. Appreciate that, Jeremy. We usually kick things off by just giving a little context, a little backstory. You were sharing earlier, Jeremy, a little bit about your journey — working on some of the penitentiaries in central Canada, yeah, starting off your career on site. Can you just give our listeners a little — yeah, sure. So it was early — after high school my wife and I — well, my

2:22wife now, girlfriend at the time — we moved to Toronto. I took the big leap at the age of 19, you know, jumped in the old Civic car and headed for Toronto. We had a relative there, moved in with them for two weeks trying to find an apartment to live in. Ended up finding one, and then yeah, I worked for Steel Gate Security, working on some of the larger penitentiaries that were being built at the time. Kind of

2:48a copy of the — I believe they're following the American standard — that kind of gets brought up by doing a lot of glazing. So yeah, I worked for Steel Gate Security, doing a lot of glazing inside the cells or out in the guard areas, and working with bulletproof glass. Yeah, bulletproof glass. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was pretty interesting — heavy, heavy stuff. But yeah, I think a lot of the general contractors were PCL and EllisDon, and there was

3:21there were like four of them happening at pretty well around the same time, between Milton, Lindsay, Penetang, and — so yeah, it was just — actually it wasn't too long ago, and I was having a meeting with a general contractor and PCL was there from Ontario, and I had said that I worked for Steel Gate Security and knew Charlie, who's the owner. And he's like, oh man, like how — we do work with Charlie all the time. So it's kind of

3:47interesting to be able to, you know, sit down there with PCL and Steel Gate. But yeah, no — after that we worked there for a year, put a lot of hours in, didn't really live at home much, I was basically on the job site working seven days a week. And then I went back to Moncton, moved back to Moncton after a year, and took civil engineering/structural division, did a work term with Vic West. Had an option after school — it was either

4:19go back to Vic West, or head back to Ontario. I had offers from both, and they were doing sales and estimating for Vic West. So when I went there for the work term it was just — they just put me right into a project that had already been started and I just worked along with it. And it was — you know, Paul Fournier, who is probably well known within the building envelope world — he took me under his wing, and I learned a lot from Paul. It was

4:45just recently, I think like last year or something, he retired. But he started with Vic West right out of community college and worked right there until retirement. Great guy. So he's a guy who kind of took you under his wing? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think at one time there it was just him and I — there were people that had come and gone — and we worked with Ron Léger, who's with ATEC

5:09there in Fredericton, and Al Culpitts, who was with Metaclad. Okay. Just some really great guys, and I learned a lot of stuff. Working with them — so when I started there, it's like right now in our company we have it kind of broken up: estimating and drafting, and we have coordinators and project managers. Well, when I was at Vic West, we did everything on paper. And yeah, my job was to do the drafting too, and sometimes,

5:42depending on the size of the job — hand sketching, yeah — sometimes depending on the job they would send it up to head office in Oakville and the draftsman would take it and draw it. But so we would draft it, coordinate, order all the supplies, follow through with projects. But Vic West at the time would subcontract all the labour, so I didn't have to manage that part as much. It was — you know,

6:07the guys would come in, give us a price for the work, go out and do it. But yeah, after like two years being there — having the subcontractors in the field — the guys were getting older, and I could see an opportunity. I understood it, I could visualize what I was estimating, because my dad was into carpentry. Yeah. So I just grew up with it — you know, building tree houses from the time I was

6:35young, and I could handle the tools. Then I could visualize it, so it just made sense for me to go out. So I started doing install work for them, right, and then it just — yeah, it took off from there. Yeah. So since we started, with the service of cladding supply and install — yeah, yeah. We started with just doing install work for Vic West. So it was a number of years that we just did install for them, which is

7:02typical when you're kind of entering into that realm of scope unless you have a bit of capital for all those big material supplies. Yeah, yeah, expensive stuff. But yeah, it just grew from there for sure. Yeah, great. So what about you, Jason? I know you were saying earlier you just recently came on with Century to grow the roofing division — yeah, with a GC before, and sort of the same path as Jeremy took. I came out of high school, went to NBCC, took

7:33mechanical engineering technology. Had an instructor there — the last day before we graduated, he said everything he learned, throw it out the window because you'll never use it. Was he right? Yeah, he was right. I graduated with an HVAC background and I went to work for a food processing company in western New Brunswick. Spent 18 years there. Started out as a draftsman, worked my way into a project coordinator position, and sort of being part of the owner

8:05representation — you've seen everything, right? Like you dealt with electrical, you dealt with mechanical, civil, roofing, everything. So it's a good perspective. Yeah. So I got into project management — that's the path I wanted to take coming from school. That seemed like the cool way to go: they were doing all the meetings, getting all the dinners and all the good stuff, right? They seemed to have a lot more fun than sitting at the CAD all day. And sometimes

8:31it looks better than it actually is. Yeah, it does. So that's why I sort of pushed my way through, and I eventually ended up staying out west for a couple years in Portage la Prairie, and I got into the project management side, came back and worked for a corporate engineering firm, and travelled around the world. I've seen all the hot spots — in Canada the ones that grow potatoes: Carberry, Portage, Lethbridge. And I spent a year in northern China as a project team

9:01member building a french fry plant, and then spent a little bit of time in India developing a french fry plant as well. Very cool. Yeah. So for 18 years I was on the road all the time, and then took a step back and went to work in PEI for an equipment manufacturer — supposed to slow me down and spend some time with my family, but I ended up on the road again. The company was leaning towards doing

9:26a turnkey systems approach for people. So I ended up in Idaho for almost a year and a half, and then I went out and tried some contracting for a telecommunications company and a mechanical/electrical company. Spent a couple years in Newfoundland off and on — kids graduated, they wanted to stay in PEI, and then we ended up working our way back to New Brunswick. And I got probably about a year and a half, two years working in the glazing side

9:57of things. I worked for a manufacturer on the island that did their own glazing and supplied it, yeah. And ended up working for a company in Fredericton — sorted some lots, wasn't really doing project management at the time, it was more estimating. And then I sort of said I'll get back into the project management side, and I went with a GC for four years just to get back out there, looking for something that kept me home every night. So I ended up spending four

10:26years building apartment buildings. And then through our connections I dealt a lot with Arrow through suppliers and stuff, and developed some friendships — and that's where I heard about the opportunity with Jeremy. We were starting to look to move back up river. So yeah, started engaged in talks and came into the roofing business. I guess in the meantime I did work for a roofing company for a year, running a

10:57couple of branches for them, and I was exposed to that. Same with Jeremy — my dad and I got our knuckles in the roofing business. So I was exposed to it at 14 — my parents said you're gonna go out and work, and I ended up working for my uncle tearing off roofs. And then when I had to go to college I needed some money, so that was the best-paying job around. I mean, 15–16 bucks an hour for an 18-year-old. So I ended up

11:20spending summers working on the roofs. I was exposed to it, and just all my career, working for corporate or working for a GC, you're involved in all aspects, so I ended up spending a lot of time on the roofing side as well. It was a good opportunity — I saw it as an opportunity to build something, right. I said it'd be nice to get in there and build it from the ground up. That's what I

11:48enjoy about project management — you were always involved from the design right to the finish. Yeah. You see it come to life. Yeah, you're involved, and then you see it come to life. And I said this is a good opportunity to build something, and Jeremy had a good vision, and I said I like that — and I like the material that he was proposing to use, the roofing system. So after a few cocktails with my buddy at the lake

12:13from Arrow, he said, 'You should go for it.' So yeah, I ended up going for it. That's awesome. Oh great. Thanks for sharing some background there. Maybe we could just talk a little bit, for our listeners, a little context on Century Exteriors — just practically, the operations, what it looks like. You've got three locations: New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland. Do you do a lot of prefab in-house? Yeah, so like I was saying

12:40earlier, production is mainly out of the head office there in Woodstock. So in Woodstock we have our drafting department, our programming department for the CNCs and things, and then we have our safety, HR, and the local project managers and coordinators for New Brunswick. And on the fabrication side of things, we buy all of our galvanized stock or painted stock to make our subframing components, and that comes from central Canada somewhere, right? Yeah, yeah, we normally bring it out

13:19of Ontario — Ontario is typically where it comes from. We fabricate all that ACM — yeah, shop, yeah. So all the trims and subframing get fabricated there on the shear and the brake, and then we have our CNC table, which is an Axyz CNC, 20-foot table, so we can produce quite a few ACM panels. And then in Newfoundland it's project management, coordinating, and we do have a shop there that's assembling the panels, because one of the projects that we're doing right now in Nova

13:55Scotia — which is with Marco — is the MARCO project over there. We fabricate all the panels as far as cutting them, all the components, put it on a truck, send it over to Newfoundland, and then in the shop over there the guys assemble it. Because if we start assembling here, the packaging and freight becomes a lot more — yeah, it's a lot more expensive and you can't get as much on the truck. So over there in Newfoundland then we

14:24do have a fabrication team over there as well, fabricating and building some of the — you know, cutting and doing some of the custom panels on corners to fit, or different detail areas that need a custom panel. They'll fabricate it there. And then here in Nova Scotia, it's not that far — we have guys travelling back and forth, so a lot of our product is still made in New Brunswick and just shipped down. Although, you know, Nova Scotia is definitely the market

14:51for us to really develop and continue to build strong relationships with GCs and owners, to expand here in Nova Scotia for sure. Because we could be doing the same fabrication we're doing in New Brunswick — it definitely could be done here. Yeah. And then on the office side, it's project managers and coordinators here. But again, when we're looking at the struggle of finding even office staff — whether it's drafting or

15:24project management or coordinating — we have a bigger pool of people here in Nova Scotia than at Woodstock, New Brunswick. So a lot of potential here in Nova Scotia for sure. Right. So do you guys — like, what — how many install crew members do you have, would you say, in each province? Like, what's the rough — yeah, I probably should have had those numbers — oh, no worries, just a rough idea.

15:51I think right now, last week we were at about 120 staff between office and field, and that would be all within the three provinces. So most of those field staff would be installing cladding, right? That's right, yeah. Yeah, we do have one full roofing crew, and yeah, actually — probably just getting that off the ground, yeah. Unionized, yeah — we went union, Carpenters'

16:23Union, back in January. Okay. So our motto, being 'building people, building buildings,' is what Century stands for. And so you're part of the Carpenters' local? Yeah, yeah. So with having our motto — 'building people, building buildings' — that's always been my emphasis. I want to treat people that work for me very fairly, and

16:57yeah, it was — we had already started the process of setting up retirement savings plans for all the workers, and we were already giving health benefits and whatnot to the workers. We were doing profit sharing, all that stuff. And we were paying a good wage. I think the reason that we never got approached or never got unionized before — and it came back to me a number of times from the union — is that we never approached you

17:27because you pay your guys well, right. So I paid, in comparison to what the union pays — if not better. Like, in New Brunswick I pay better than the union. So the pay that I give our union workers in New Brunswick is above the standard union wage. And then you had your own benefit plan. Yeah, yeah, we were doing all that. So in setting that up, we're like, okay, instead of us having to do the work, let's just get them to do the work.

17:54And the other benefit — we had started the whole manpower shortage issue, it's really tough, right? Like, to try and find skilled people is extremely hard. So we had started — we had hired a new position at the company, it was a trainer role basically. We were — yeah, so we were going through the process of developing — he's not doing a very good job? Well, no, it wasn't that. It was just that it was before the union. So we signed on in January, but last year we

18:24were looking — we had started, we had hired a role for training and development. Seeing that a lot of the other people in the industry are getting out, and new guys are coming in, but there's no real good method of training them to bring them up and see them succeed. So in 'building people,' how do you build people? Well, you have to put them on a pathway of success. You've got to be able to bring them through. And yeah, my whole thing is that

18:51you don't necessarily need to start at year one and take five years to get to a journeyman — if you put in the effort and you show your experience and you want to work, let's bump you up quicker because you're worth it, right. And so it gives a lot of incentive too, right? It's a big character builder. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we're kind of building these animated videos on how to do trims and folds, so people can go on and watch. And then we start building

19:18training walls. And then with everything combined — the training, the retirement savings, and the health packages and all that — I was like, it doesn't make sense for us to already start from scratch. Let's go to the union. They've already got the benefits, they've already got a good package for the guys, right. And you get the training seminars and things that are around. And that's been one thing that working with the

19:45Carpenters' Union is that they have the ability to do that — yeah, yeah. Like, they're sending our guys down to Vegas for the main training centre because they have building envelope training that they offer there. So let's bring that to Atlantic Canada, whether it's for Century or any of our competition. I mean, it's just better for the industry as a whole to make sure that guys are qualified and certified to be doing these building envelope systems. You run into so many

20:11issues through the years dealing with leaks, or walls not being properly sealed, or whatever it is. And owners — they don't deserve that. They deserve a product that's good and is going to stand for a number of years, right? Yeah. I think when it comes to building envelope, obviously for the design there's so much building science involved — so many ways to bake a cake with these assemblies and all the different elements. But even

20:41when you're carrying out the supply and install on them, you're kind of instructed to spec and drawings what to do, but there's a lot of knowledge you have to have to make sure things are done right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because when you're working with engineers and architects, they have a concept, they have an idea of what they want. And most of the time they're excellent on their details, but then

21:07there are things that are missed, or there are different, better approaches that come with experience. Yeah. So it just helps to pull that all together. Definitely. Yeah. It's — and when you haven't got the right people, or not enough people — especially just coming out of the whole COVID era — when schedules were being delayed, that really caused some problems for us, because it just caused some backlog of

21:40schedules. Like, GCs weren't hitting schedules, Century wasn't hitting schedules, and we're still dealing with all of that. Yeah, that really hasn't evened out yet. And at that whole time, we had people that — you know, people that had been working for us that just didn't feel comfortable coming to work anymore, and they're at home. So here I am, I've got a tool belt on and I'm out putting buildings

22:08together — because you were out doing that? I was out — oh yeah, I was out on the wall trying to get jobs done because people just didn't come to work anymore. Yeah, yeah. And it wasn't everybody. No, no, for sure. But there were enough of them — whether they had family health issues, or there were other things that were concerning for them, rightfully. Yeah. It just affected the manpower situation in Atlantic Canada. Yeah, I think

22:36even like you said, the air is clearing and it's not necessarily the hot topic of conversation with COVID anymore, but still kind of — yeah, that's right. Only able now to look back and think like, wow. Yeah, yeah. No, I definitely try to leave that behind. Yeah, that's right. It was crazy at times. It's good to see that most people came through it in this industry. Yeah, somewhat. Yeah. Okay. So even though it was a struggle,

23:07the construction industry stayed rolling. Essential service, yeah. Yeah, I'm blessed to be in this. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, definitely. So what percentage of Century's work would you say — like, if you were to give a percentage — between private and public? Been a lot of public tenders and then a lot of private relationships with developers and ongoing repeat work — kind of 50/50, or is it — no, it's probably — I would say tendered work is probably 70

23:32percent of our work. Okay. Yeah. So Jason, with the roofing division, are you bidding tenders whether or not you're bidding the cladding — if it's a good roofing job, maybe lower risk, kind of simple — are you trying to attack certain kinds of jobs first? Or — I think when we first started getting into it, the talk was trying to combine and do the total system for them, the walls and the roof, right. And that's kind of the

24:01value prop right now, yeah — have one sub-trade do that. But as we started to progress, we said okay, we're trying to get experience — for your first crew coming in, we've got to keep them busy, so we start bidding individual jobs. So we've taken on — I think we've done pretty well. We only do single-ply, Carlisle products. So we've sort of partnered with them through Arrow. It's not really a big

24:29arrangement. In New Brunswick it's not really a big roofing market in the single-ply sense — it's all mod-bit two-ply in New Brunswick, that's sort of been the way for the last 20, 30 years. So are you trying to get in as an alternate? Yeah, yeah. A lot of the jobs — I think one job we actually did at the Fredericton Hospital was a single-ply job and we were successful getting it. But it was specced that way. It was specced that way. But the other seven or eight jobs

24:53that we have, it's going in and selling our product to the architects, to the owners, to the GCs. We've been very successful. My experience coming from the construction side over the years was the opposite — when they do spec a job as single-ply, the roofers would come in and try to flip it to a two-ply mod-bit. We sort of took that approach differently. Coming in, and with the help of the local Carlisle rep, we

25:21spend a lot of time getting in there and selling the product — meeting with the client, meeting with government officials or whoever — and we've been very successful at it. Can you explain the difference? I don't know a lot. Oh okay, sure, yeah. You've got a minute or two? Yeah. So a two-ply mod-bit — yeah, you have your base sheet with your torch-on, then a cap sheet — so that's your two-ply, yeah. So your

25:46base sheet is your protection from the outside elements, and then you have your cap sheet, which is your cover. And about 90% of the application for that is a torch-on. Yeah. So you lay your insulation, lay your protection layer, then you torch on the base sheet and torch on the cap sheet. With a single-ply, it's either mechanically fastened or self-adhered with adhesives.

26:16And then you just have the single layer — it's either rubber, which is EPDM, or it's — it's not a torch-on. No, it's EPDM rubber, yeah. It's a flameless solution. It's more sustainable. And is that why you're using it in the first place? That's a factor — that's a factor. The factor is that you don't have open flame up on your roof, especially if it's a wood structure. Yeah,

26:41or you're working around parapets, which are all wood. I mean, in the last year there have been a couple of buildings that burnt because they were using torches in New Brunswick, and there's probably a lot more that you don't hear about. Yeah. With that — so it's just a safe solution. It's half the cost. But do you think you're an early adopter? Do you think there's going to be a shift away? Oh, I think there is. Right now you've got the companies out

27:03there — like you've got Soprema, you've got IKO — they all have a single-ply, they all have — well, some have just a PVC or a TPO option, some have the rubber or the thermoplastic. Yeah. But they're also going with their two-plies with a self-adhered, so now you're getting away from the torch but it's a lot more money to do so. We just came back from RoofTech here in April, and that was the big theme up there — it was a flameless

27:29solution. Every company's trying to get away from using torches in their own way. Yeah. But when you look at someone like Carlisle — in my opinion, it doesn't matter if I'm working for Century, or I'm a rep, or we're using their product, or I'm with a GC — I always felt Carlisle was above everybody else. Because when other companies were coming in with two-ply, I think Carlisle was looking at single-ply rubber really early on. So for the last 50 years

27:58they've been trying to improve it, and there are really some good systems. They came out with a Velcro system — really, yeah — like six years ago when I was working for a roofing company, they introduced the Velcro system and I said, oh geez, what's that? I was like, that'll never work. And right now that's one of their top sellers — really? Yeah. That's the adhesive — it's Velcro. So yeah, they actually teamed up with Velcro, and they've copyrighted it — they're the only

28:25roofing supply/membrane company out there that has the right to that technology. So there are a couple of roofs in Nova Scotia that have the RapidLock on them, and that's sort of what we're pushing as we go and talk to these clients. And everything — yeah. You see, like, in the building envelope on the cladding side of it, you've seen over the last number of years — there's not huge advancement in the cladding, but you've introduced new stuff, new products,

28:55there are different rain-screen systems, thermal clips, all that stuff. And then you go to the roofs — the roofs haven't really changed in Atlantic Canada here much. You've got your big players — like Lindsay, Lindsay does a lot — I think their main focus is single-ply. Like, they're a big player, and I think they use Carlisle products as well. Great company. But roofing really hasn't changed overall. But so you've got this

29:22technology, and you go south or go to central Canada — I would say especially going to the South, the majority of their roofs are all single-ply. You start going to central Canada, western Canada — there's a lot of single-ply and a lot of torchless systems, right? Okay. And it just seems like it takes Atlantic Canada some time to catch up on stuff. But it's definitely the direction it's going. I mean, you've got Velcro roofs — like, who would have thought

29:47you'd be putting — like, yeah, my grandfather — you see Velcro on his sneakers. That's what I was thinking. I was going to make a joke but I'm trying not to. Yeah. Father's Day, so — yeah. But like what Jeremy was saying, you cross the border at Calais, you cross the border at Saint Stephen, and you start driving, you start looking at some of the big commercial buildings — it's all single-ply. And you cross the

30:14border back to New Brunswick and it's all two-ply mod-bit. It just hasn't taken off. So it's all — oh, sorry. So right now, the way we look at it is: with the labour shortage, we don't need 10 guys to go into a roof, we only need four to five, due to the system. Due to the system — how, just the way the system goes down? It's an easier system to go down. So you can put down five to six

30:40thousand square feet a day with a four-man crew. Yeah, with a four or five man crew. Hope you guys are listening to this! And then you look at the cost — instead of having to put those two layers of your base and cap sheet on, because with a two-ply you do your base sheet and then you turn around and do it all again with your cap sheet, right. So it's double the

31:11work. And you get just as much protection with a single-ply — like you can get 45-mil, 60-mil, 145-mil. Once you lay that single-ply membrane down, your roof is sealed. And at the end of the day you've got 5,000 square feet of roof that's sealed — you don't have to go back and do it again. You might go back and do your details around your curbs or your parapets, but you're done. So this is a pretty crucial part of your

31:37expanding Century from cladding to roofing as well — as part of another element of the building envelope — and starting with single-ply right away. So your employees are trained, you've got the early adopter advantage on the East Coast, it's going to be more prevalent, and then you'll have an advantage on the labour, your knowledge of it, your experience, and jobs under your belt. Yeah. And that's one thing — starting the

32:03division — we weren't using torch. That's not even an option for us, right. So the jobs that are two-ply modified — we can't price those up. So we're not competing in that market. Yeah. I think we're able to offer customers and clients some cost savings, and at the end of the day — when you're renting apartments, or you've got

32:31people that are paying for lease space, it comes down to dollars and cents at the end of the day, right? And if they can save money, then it's definitely of interest for them to look at and seriously consider. I mean, Century — we're going in as single-ply only. So we're selling it as single-ply being the best. I mean, you've got other guys out there that are doing two-ply modified

32:54and they're saying that's the best. I mean, I think the products are good either way. Yeah. It's just — this is what we do, right. So if this is what we do, this is what we promote. Yeah, we like to get in there and — yeah. And the companies that we deal with, like Carlisle, they stand behind their product. The warranties that we can give are 20-year-plus warranties — really good, great warranties. And they come — they do an inspection? Oh yeah, definitely —

33:24definitely better than most two-ply. Yeah, yeah. So depending on what thickness of membrane you're using, depending on your details, you can get anywhere from 20 to 35, 40-year warranties. Yeah. And that's what I'd want. I mean, with all the roofing problems you hear about, and especially the climate here — if I was a building owner I'd be like, oh yeah, give me something that gives me 40 years. Yeah. The product — the building itself is a 60- to 100-year product. Yeah, yeah.

33:50And Carlisle is a total system, right? Total system warranty, yeah. Non-prorated. At the end of the job — and even during the install — they have their local reps come on. Arrow Construction Products is their local rep in the Maritimes for Carlisle. Yeah. So they sell the products, they have a technical team, and they're on that roof with us at least once a week, stopping in — how's things going, do you have any issues? Or yeah,

34:19or engaged — yeah. Or if I have an issue, or Jeremy has an issue, or even my foreman has the technical rep's number — if they ever have an issue they just call them up. If he's local, even if it's in Moncton and he's out of Fredericton, he'll be there. He said, yeah, listen, I can be there in a couple hours, I can be there tomorrow. Or he'll send me a picture, or whatever. So the support's there. The total system warranty — you have to have all Carlisle

34:43products, which are very competitive — instead of trying to piecemeal a roof together. Yeah. But Carlisle flies in someone from either Toronto or — an inspector — they come in, they inspect the whole roof, they grade it. And so they're doing the roofing assessment too, to document it for the GC or the owner. Yeah. So when we start the job — if we're doing a total system warranty, that's all we offer, that's all we've been offering on all

35:12these jobs. It's like 10 cents or 30 cents a square foot for this total system warranty. We have to document it — as soon as we start the job, as soon as we get the PO, we have to register the warranty with Carlisle. And then that's when they say okay, they tell their guys: okay, this job started, you've got to start looking at it, working with them. We let them know when the roof's done and when we want the

35:36warranty to start. They'll fly someone in, they'll do a walkthrough of the roof — our foreman's with them, and I try to be with them if I'm available. They walk the roof. If they see something, they're very open: that's not right, you need to fix that. And then our guys will be right there with their materials and tools and they'll fix that. So when they come back they'll say, okay, you fixed that, that's correct. Or

36:01if they need help doing it. Yeah. And then when they walk off the roof, they sign off. Carlisle takes ownership of that roof for 20, 25 years, and it's non-prorated. So if they have a problem at year 15 and something needs to be replaced, it's at the cost of year 15 — not the cost of what it cost you when you did it originally. So they're really good that way. Great support. And like I said, for the last 30 years I've

36:28been in the construction industry, and ever since I've been introduced to that Carlisle product it's been above the rest. They just — that's all they concentrate on, and that's going to be great for — yeah, focused on that. Yeah, yeah. And then with us, we're part of the Canadian Roofing Contractors Association, so we have a two-year warranty on top of that for labour and materials, covering response for two years. Yeah. So going in I had a little bit of behind-the-scenes knowledge, because

36:59the Carlisle rep and I are good friends — we developed a friendship over the years, and he sort of explained to me — like, they don't tell the client all this when they go in. So we sort of went in and just laid it all out and said, here's what you have to offer, here's the different systems. What's your price range? Okay, you want to do it cheaper but you still want the warranty — here's the best system

37:24to go with. You want something a little bit more durable, we can go with this system, right. And the other part of it is coming from the GC side of things — building apartments for the last four years from the ground up — you want to get in that building as quick as possible, right. You want to get in the ground, get your structure done, get your roof on, get it sealed up so you can get your electricians,

37:45get all your trades in there working. And we can, depending on the square footage of the building, have it totally watertight within five to seven days and walk away. Say, okay, when you're ready to put your curbs in, when you're ready to put your units in, or your roof hatch, give us a call. We'll come down, open it up, it's easy. Typical one week to get watertight. Yeah, we can be watertight — depending on the square footage, obviously depending on

38:09the square footage — but your typical project — our typical projects are around 20,000 square feet. Is that right? Yep, yep. And we did the hospital — we're doing a job at the hospital now — we had it torn off and water-sealed in a day. Really? Yeah. So it's just — hit the strip — what was there? We stripped what was there. Yeah, yeah. Now replacement, not a full replacement? It was a full replacement, yeah. Full replacement on

38:34a courtyard. Okay. I think it was three or four thousand square feet. And we ripped it off, had the garbage off the building, and had the new membrane down. So yeah, if you have the right crew — and we were lucky enough, we picked up a couple of experienced foremen where that was their specialty. They liked working with single-ply, they weren't happy where they were, they came aboard, and

39:06they love it. So yeah, we're off to the races. So with the cladding side — just limited knowledge myself on that — but there are so many products, right? I mean, you're fabricating your own sheet goods, painted ACM panels, yeah. But you're probably installing like 30 different products in the run of the year on the same project — it was ACM here, it was some horizontal siding, metal ceramics — so many different — oh, there are a lot, and there are a lot that we really haven't

39:34kept up with — haven't even installed yet, right. Yeah, the products and stuff — whenever it's a unique product and it's part of the job, where there are panel systems on one elevation that you're used to, and then all of a sudden there's maybe 5,000 square feet of this new one. Yeah, you know. And rightfully so, architects are making their mark, right, and they're being unique. There's not a typical job anymore — definitely not. Even when

40:04you get into pre-engineered buildings — by the time you do the entrances and a few accent walls or something like that, it's detailed stuff. And which is exciting in a way. Yeah, it is. But it adds a level of complexity and a required skill level for guys on site, right. And not everybody has the experience. Yeah, I mean, this is new stuff that architects are dealing with, and the way they're drawing it and detailing it, it's

40:32for Atlantic Canada especially — you're seeing some really nice buildings being constructed, and it's not typical. By the time you do thermal clips and through-walls and membranes and everything, it's not typical at all. No. And yeah, yeah. And we've watched, as jobs have become more complicated, the daily production also drop over time as well, right. You're losing that real skilled market. There's

41:11more work, you're bringing more people in, but jobs are getting more complicated. So it's definitely taking longer to do jobs. Yeah. Even the design of some of the buildings — I know I've been involved slightly — like in the city here, there's nothing on the building that's a straight wall or straight runs. You can get your orientation point, kind of lay out your ACM channels or whatever it might be — yeah, it's like stops and starts and different shapes and

41:40everything. It's just hard to catch everything too. You're looking through the elevations and then through cut-throughs and details to catch a little bit of banding here, but then you go through the whole building and there's 12,000 square feet of banding that's eight inches wide around the balconies and this and that. It's just a lot. And on that scope, where the material price is so high and the labour price is so high — a little miss is a

42:04big mess, right. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I had a meeting yesterday with the guys from Southwest because we're doing the Cunard for them. And so you're doing the Cunard building? Yeah, we're doing the Cunard. So how long have you been there? We've been there — yeah, we've been there for a little while. It's amazing — nice building, but the detail work on it is pretty intense, you know.

42:28I'm sitting there last night until 10 o'clock — I mean, I'm still project managing because in this process of growing we haven't got enough project managers yet. So anyway, I'm filling in, working with them, trying to keep it on schedule or bring it on schedule, get it finished. You're doing the cladding at the Cunard? Yeah, yeah. And so I'm there until 10

42:53o'clock last night drawing up details of ACM where it's coming over a parapet — I've got columns tying into it, I've got curtain wall, there are some panels that are set back and some that are out — and trying to bring all that together. You know, you'll look at it and you're like, there's an easy way for us to do this, which is probably not the right way. If you're going to do it right, you need your splines and your extrusions in the right

43:18spots — you can't mess up. So there's a lot of detail work in these jobs that's taking some time. Quick shout-out to the newest sponsor of the show, The Stone Depot. The Stone Depot is located in Bayers Lake, Halifax, and serves all of the East Coast. A showroom over 8,000 square feet — perfect for masonry contractors, landscaping contractors, builders, developers. Regardless, The Stone Depot is a great option for you, whether you're doing fire pits, patio stones, kitchen and interior stones. So if you're

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44:41looking to build a solid foundation for future growth, Pivot has a product that can be modified to your needs. Consider making the Pivot today — book a free consultation at pivotbookkeeping.com. For sure. So with the Cunard — I've heard another 18 months or something before they want to be open, right? Like, what phase is it for you? You've got — you're started there obviously, but you've got a long while to go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're going to be in September. Yeah, oh yeah, there — I mean, it

45:07seems like the job is — I focus on the cladding. I know that the team there — how much planning other than masonry, because there's so much glazing, right? It's actually on it, even though — yeah, the majority of our work is just on the first five levels. First five levels, right. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, the bigger — the rest of the stuff is a lot of curtain wall, yeah, or curtain glass, and

45:36just concrete. But we have some stuff up on one of the decks around the pool and the penthouse, that pool-top area. So one of our partners, their media company is a rendering company, so that'll be a virtual tour. Oh yeah, yeah, they've created the drone views and — oh yeah, walk out on the pool view. Wow, actually — yeah, it's like a video game but you're on the Cunard. Yeah, and wow,

46:00that's pretty awesome. Oh yeah, I know — it's amazing. It's great to be part of the job and working with the Southwest team there. It's just — it's good. Yeah, it's awesome. Jim Mullen — yeah, yeah. Jim and Steve and Dean — Dean's an awesome site superintendent there. And yeah, it's been a good experience. It must feel good for you as the owner to just be part of a project like that. Oh yeah, yeah, for sure. Milestone project on the waterfront in

46:26Halifax. Yeah, we were down there last night and — like, first day of summer, beautiful weather, beautiful evening, just having dinner with some people and we're sitting right next to the Cunard, thinking like, man, that's gonna be awesome when it's done. Yeah, it's gonna be a nice building. That's definitely one of our large projects that we're working on right now. Outside of that, we're in Newfoundland with MARCO — they have some massive

46:49projects that we're doing with MARCO. Again, another amazing team. Yeah, great guys — and girls. Yeah. Good project. Going into Newfoundland has been — yeah, we went there, it's probably been about 18 months ago that we opened up the office. Yeah, yeah. It's a challenge — I think anytime you go into any new area, you're definitely going to deal with challenges. And for us to take on — well, more so in Newfoundland — like, New Brunswick to Nova Scotia seems

47:26like a lot easier. It is, it is, definitely. Yeah. To make that skip across the water like that adds a lot of logistics. Yeah, a lot of logistics. A lot — just things that maybe — and I guess one of the biggest challenges was that we took on the largest job that we've ever done. Like, we've got — it's a big job — it's over eight million dollars for us on just building envelopes. So yeah, it's a big job.

47:55A lot of late nights for you to make that decision to do such a big job out there. Yeah, yeah. How did — can you run us through a little bit of your decision process? Like, with MARCO — we had started early on on the job. I'm sure they had other cladding companies working with them as well, going through the — so yeah, we worked right from the beginning. I think it was like a two-year process even before being awarded the

48:20job. No — that's a long pursuit. Yeah. Almost like — I mean, I was a subcontractor already. I was dealing early on in the job, working out budgets, yeah, offering suggestions and whatnot. But that's a unique way in, isn't it? Yeah, right? Yeah, yeah. I think that's something you want to do more of. Yeah, I definitely — yeah. I definitely enjoy being part of the jobs early on and helping with the design and detailing. Yeah, whether it's architects or

48:53general contractors — my phone rings, I like dealing with that stuff. Yeah. It's interesting to hear you say that, because as a building envelope company — probably — I mean, you see that in some interior trades too. But to be involved way upstream in design, and architects asking for your expertise — because how can they be an expert at everything? And then you're entering the job kind of that way, instead of — what's called value engineering, but instead of

49:21a complete hard, mid, or low number kind of thing, right. Yeah, yeah. And we don't always get all the jobs that we work on — you know, that's the thing, right. That's fine. Yeah, I've got a year and a half of effort — that's right. Yeah. But it just comes along with the territory, and building the relationships — whether it's architects, general contractors, or owners — we're here to offer our expertise in a successful project, to help them detail and

49:47if at the end of the day we don't get it — there seems to be plenty of work out there, right? Yeah, there just is, right. Yeah, yeah. Even as recently as the last few months, we really haven't been bidding the tendered stuff as much anymore, because we're at a point where if I don't get that next tender job, my phone's going to ring and I'm gonna do the next one, right. Like, it's

50:13yeah, it's a good place. It is, yeah. It is a good place to be, versus sometimes it feels like you're chasing people to the bottom, right. And sometimes that's — so when you're getting those calls right now and being asked about a project that starts in six months, fairly complex and fairly large — first thing you're thinking is, where am I going to get the men? Where are these guys from the site going

50:40to be? Yeah. Talk about the labour shortage and what the challenges are there for you guys. With roofing — so I'm thinking, you have your cladding side, which is well established, roofing division off the ground now, maybe glazing is the next one — your full building envelope offering. Yeah. Do you see some of the employees — you've got to have your expertise in each scope running each crew, but

51:11maybe some overlap — like a lot of guys who do cladding can do some glazing or some roofing. How do you kind of see that playing out? And we have it right now with our roofing crew. We brought them on — that's one of the first questions we asked them: are you interested in learning the cladding side? So the first month and a half they were with us, while we were waiting for some jobs to start, they were working on

51:33the cladding side. Yeah, we put them with the cladding crew to learn that outside. Yeah. So eventually when we do get — my original thought was: when I pushed that with them in the interviews — okay, if we get a job that has both cladding and roofing on it, depending on the size, they could be there to do the whole thing for us. Go on, get your roof on, get your cladding on, and then you can get your

51:58flashings on, clean the job up, and you're done. You're in there quicker — you're not waiting for the cladding guys to finish their job so you can go finish your job on the roof. It would just be a process. So the guys were very open to it, and it worked well. We actually took one of the cladding guys and put him on the roofing crew. Yeah, so we just moved him over. We needed

52:24guys, and he seemed to love it. Yeah. Both crews entirely? No, but yeah, so we kind of mixed and matched, and I think that's great. And the guys that came on board with us said, this is great — now we're working 12 months a year instead of eight or nine. Because usually there's a little lull in the winter time with roofing, between January and March depending on weather, right. But if I was an employee and I'm

52:49thinking — you know, like, I'm a site worker doing cladding for 10 years, a little bit of glazing, some roofing — I would want to work with Century if I knew — you know, variety: spice of life. I'm not saying you can be an expert at everything, but a lot of guys are that skilled that they can do it all. Oh yeah, you know. And if they get a chance to work on our job where

53:11it's cladding for a year and then over to glazing — like, to me, that opportunity to do that is attractive to skilled employees. Yeah. And that's part of the whole diversification of the company. It's not just because of the relationships that you have with the general contractors or owners that it's easy to add in another sector, but it's easy because your teams and your field guys are around those details as well, right. It's not just

53:39myself who's been able to visually understand the details, or Jason, because he's been working right alongside those details for weeks or months or years. Yeah. But you don't want to diminish it either, because not anyone can just step into a large project. No, no.

54:15And they know their stuff. But even if you do get projects where — yes, you're going to get some jobs where you might get the roofing on this one, you might get the cladding on that one. Some of them you'll get both. Yeah. Maybe at some point you get all three elements on the envelope, and that's great for the GC — yeah, it's all your foremen conversing with each other and communicating with each other, controlling everything.

54:40Integrated, like. So it's — yeah, yeah. And dealing with the shortages of manpower — I think that's one thing that really pushed the roofing, or the glazing, on a little bit quicker for us: when it comes to the cladding sector, it's not that we've tapped out on our growth as far as finding people, but it's really slowed down. Like, we've built that crew now, and to add to that crew, well, it might be easier for us to

55:10add a roofing division with experienced roofers versus experienced cladders, right. We might be able to go out — because we've been searching and trying to find experienced cladders, and we've been successful even recently in finding some really good guys. But then, okay, so how many more cladders are there out there that are going to want to come work for Century? Maybe there are no more — maybe it's just we've got to start training guys from the ground up, and

55:38that's how we're going to build going forward. So we've kind of plateaued, in a sense, on the cladding. But I think there's plenty of room for growth in the roofing because we just haven't focused on that. And then the same thing — so instead of being a 200-employee cladding company, it's easier to diversify and be 300 — divide that out and have 100, 100, 100, right. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. So

56:08have you found that — Jason — to me when I think of roofing, I really don't know much, but it seems like there are a lot of roofing companies out there in Atlantic Canada. But when you're pricing jobs, you're competing with the typical same five, six, seven, eight — or is it ten? No, you're normally — well, New Brunswick-wise, you're dealing with what I call the big four or whatever. You have Flynn, you have

56:31ATEC, you have Atlantic, you have Enviro — right? Yeah, so those are the main guys you see on the jobs. And again, a lot of them aren't doing single-ply — yeah, a lot of them aren't doing single-ply. They concentrate on the two-ply, but a lot of their jobs are bid on government jobs, and government is stuck with two-ply mod-bit. So that's not going to change. No. And then you see the few private

56:58jobs that come out on MERX or whatever, or you get invited in by GCs that Century has worked with before — and that's where we go in and try to flip them, right. So we've been very competitive, I think, on the single-ply side — we've surprised a few people. We've come in very competitive. I think it's just the way that we bid it: we started out — our estimators didn't have the

57:23experience in bidding the two-ply mod-bit. They've always bid single-ply because Jeremy was doing a few jobs prior to starting up his roofing division, right — like he had certain customers — so they had exposure to that. So they got the numbers down, and that gave us a little bit of an edge in the industry. But yeah, you're competing against basically the same four or five every time. All right. So we're not out there to take jobs away,

57:50we want to — my goal is to build relationships. And yeah, I have an uncle that I'm very close to — he's a top foreman for ATEC New Brunswick, right. So I'm competing against him and I see him every day, talk to him every day. But we're not out there to make enemies. You do see a lot of competition — yeah, a lot of different scopes that have conversations with each other, not all the time but quite often, just to

58:15see how things are going. And there's enough work out there, right, so it's easy to be diplomatic. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you could go in and be all cocky and say we're gonna take this market over and step on whoever you want, and then down the road you might need a favour, right. Yeah. And they're just going to look at you and say no. I've been very lucky — I've worked with Atlantic, I've worked

58:42with ATEC, I worked with — I haven't worked with Flynn a lot — but on previous jobs, like when I started out my career in the food industry, we always worked with Atlantic on our roof systems on our plants in the Maritimes. So I developed that relationship with them. And of course my uncle's in this, so I knew them from there. I worked with ATEC when I was with the GC — ATEC did a lot of our

59:09roofs for us, our flat roofs. So coming in, I had those relationships with them. ATEC sponsored us to get into the Roofers Association of New Brunswick — we needed a sponsor, they stepped up to the plate. Jeremy knows them, they have a good working relationship from the past. So you develop and keep those relationships — you never know when you step on someone's toes, and it's going to come back and bite you in the ass, right. So

59:34I've been very fortunate. I've always believed in keeping those relationships and working with them. Yeah. And all through my career I had certain contractors that I worked with — it didn't matter if I was working in New Brunswick, Manitoba, or PEI — if there's that one contractor that I know could get the job done and be competitive, you'd try to work with him, right. So yeah. It's funny — it's almost like, as a contractor, one of the things

60:01that maybe guys working in the field who haven't been on the ownership end might not realize — it's just you're constantly in that pool of people trying to navigate the relationships, the competitors, the market, and how busy it is. All the changing variables. There are so many things you're trying to navigate through. Yeah. One thing — in the manpower situation — a company like Century is a really young company, right. There's plenty of room for us to be

60:35able to expand and grow over the coming years. But it's like — going into install-only coming out of Vic West, the older guys were leaving, right. And so here I am, 20-something years old, going in and taking on decent-sized projects, gathering up some guys, starting to train and teach. So a lot of those guys that started with me are foremen now within the company. Over the years. But it's the same thing when it comes to the art —

61:07so as a company as a whole: there are older companies out there and things are always changing. Yeah, and Century as a young company — I think we can come in and over the years continue to develop the younger generations to come up. We need to get these guys that are coming out of high school — really trade-train them and teach them that the trades are important in Atlantic Canada, and that

61:33they can make a good living in Atlantic Canada in the trades. So that's going to be a focus — whether it's for Century or any young company that's starting up. That's where our focus is going to be, because in order for us to get any longevity out of it, we've got to teach these younger people. And me being 42 — yeah — I still have a lot of work left in me. Yeah. And

61:55it's bringing that next generation — those other 20, 30, 40-year-olds — into the trades, yeah, and teaching them. So that when the other guys are ready for retirement — and a lot of them are, you know, a lot of them in our companies — yeah. So it's to put that focus on the younger generation. And on the labour shortage — yeah, there's plenty of labour shortage right now. I think we're going to see even more coming up. And that's

62:25why what you're saying just now is so important — to take action now to have a solution in five years. Yeah. So whether it's Century, or our competitors in this market space, or any market space really — to put the focus on that next generation coming up is really important. Yeah. And you're right, attracting them at the high school level — yeah, there are like — maybe they're thinking about going to be an accountant, a lawyer, a doctor, or whatever, but yeah,

62:52they could be a project manager. And shedding light on what that means — you wanted to be part of a job like the Cunard downtown, and saying that you helped — yeah. It's a very good-paying job, very respectable. Bring the status element up a little more, as in the stereotype. Yeah, yeah. And it's not enough — I don't think. We had interviews just yesterday, talking about wages and salaries, and you know, it's not just

63:21about salary anymore. And I don't know if it ever just was. But it's about the culture of the business, it's about their benefits and the vacation time they get off with their families. It's lifestyle. Yeah. It's not the way it used to be. Like, I remember my dad grew up working every day, evenings — I mean, I come from a family of six. I

63:47come from — wait, I'm 57. I'm 37. That's different — oh, you have seven? Yeah, I have six wonderful girls and one — yeah. Yeah, so it's awesome. My wife — I always tell everybody, and so it's important that I say this — my wife definitely works much harder than I do, she definitely does. She holds — yeah, like, I mean, I've worked across Canada, gone for three or four weeks at a time, you know, building this business, and she has held things together

64:17amazingly. So I definitely got to give credit to her. But yeah, I mean, you come from this generation where my dad just worked all the time — that's all he did. Yeah. I mean, I remember my first job, I was 13 years old working in the cedar mill. 14 years old I drove skidder for Dad in the woods. Like, I worked. And so my son probably wished there were more fishing

64:45trips than there were. Yeah, it worked, but — anyway, it's different now. People are looking for their time. People are looking for their time off — they need family time, it's not just about work anymore. So to portray that and bring that into the culture of the construction industry is going to be important in the coming years. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's been such a blessing to have these

65:16conversations with so many different people on the show here, because it's hard to implement and carry through those changes. You see things changing, but you know, until you're talking about something for a long while — before the direction you're headed in — just so many different opinions and feedback. It's just a conversation we need to keep having. Yeah, it is. So thoughts on the glazing side — is that obviously on the agenda? It would be the

65:51kind of third crucial piece to the full building envelope. It's maybe a bigger leap with the cost of materials, or maybe it's not a bigger leap — maybe it's just another — yeah, yeah. We don't want to overdo ourselves either. I mean, we're not — like a good pace, with finesse — not just let's do it to say we're there when you're not really. Yeah, no. And we had, you know, done a couple of projects —

66:18we did the glazing, frames and doors. And even at Vic West I've done some frames and door install on some stuff in Snow Lake, Manitoba. And we have crews out in BC right now doing a pit mine there, some buildings for trucks and whatnot. But yeah, it's something we're definitely working towards. It's been — like I said before — about a year since we've done any glazing. We don't want to step in too quick

66:51and make a mistake. We want to make sure that when we come into that market, we have experience — like Jason brings to the roofing. We've got a good team in the field that's able to do it. I'm not going to come in and say yeah, I can do that job, and then just try to throw it together. It just takes time. And really, because of the opportunity coming out of the roofing side, that's been our

67:19focus. So right now it's really to get our team set up, get everything properly structured, get the right people in the right seats for the cladding and the roofing, and then when the time comes we'll start doing more of the glazing. Yeah. The odd job — I mean, maybe tomorrow I decide to fit in a small job. Well, you could be — what's probably going to happen, and correct me if I'm wrong, is a lot of

67:47times what I see in the city here is: you've got a cladding company working on a pretty major project, and there's just a little bit of glazing over there, and the trade's gone, and you guys want to put these panels in. And then as soon as you're done it's like, oh, we should be doing glazing too. I see that happen quite a bit right now. All of a sudden you're the glazing company, yeah. I think that's where you get into the

68:08roofing business — it's very transitional, right. Yeah, you're right there around it. Your crew's there so you get asked, hey, you guys want to install this? Yeah, as a — yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. But the glazing, we're definitely — it's something that's coming. Just no time frame yet on exactly when that's all going to go full force. But what's exciting — what's your pulse on the New Brunswick market? Things are really busy there, huh? I mean, not as much as Nova Scotia, but not as

68:46significant a difference in your view? Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. But I mean — oh yeah, for sure, it is growing. There's a lot of big projects. I mean, I drove through there just this — well, the first of this week, and it's amazing to see all the structures going up and the tower cranes in the city. And I haven't been to Saint John recently, but I know we're doing a big apartment building over there. There's a lot — there's a lot of apartment buildings. I think there is

69:14yeah, yeah. We have a roofing job with Iron Maple starting in a couple weeks. So yes, we were able to flip them to a single-ply. Oh yeah, yeah. So we're putting RapidLock on it, actually. We're looking forward to working with them and forming that partnership. But yeah, there's a lot of — you look at the news in Saint John, it's more apartment buildings and condos and stuff going up down there

69:42right now. So we do have a couple of schools that we're doing in New Brunswick as well — one for Amero, the other for Spring Hill. And so we've got one, two, three — three apartment buildings that we're doing in New Brunswick. And then for the cladding scope on some of the schools you've worked on — I'm assuming you've worked on several schools over the years. Yeah. Have they been profitable experiences? I find a lot of people share the opinion that it can be tough to make a profit on school projects.

70:07Yeah, schools have not been great for anybody. No, not really — except the students. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah, we've definitely started almost pushing them aside. Yeah, a lot of people have. Yeah. I think one of the reasons — they announced eight new schools in the province here too, this past week. Yeah, yeah. It's different building schools in New

70:37Brunswick than it is in Nova Scotia. Yeah, the design — I think the architects have more, and bigger budgets, in Nova Scotia than in New Brunswick. In New Brunswick you tend to see just steel cladding, metal cladding, nothing special — something that's corrugated, a lot of black wall, a lot of masonry. I mean, they get into some color stuff — like one of the last ones we did was Murdoch Boyd, and they did some nice stuff with the color.

71:08But here you're seeing fiber cement, ACM, and the higher-end metal. So it is a little bit different doing a school in Nova Scotia than in New Brunswick. Okay. But yeah, it's a tight market in those schools. And that goes back to us kind of saying, okay, we're not going to be bidding every tender job. Though we did bid the last one that we got — I think we ended up

71:33being like one of the only bidders on the cladding, right. Everybody's busy, everybody's — there's a lot of work — that's the opportunity now. Yeah, we're gonna see some high numbers. Yeah, you're gonna know. Yeah. Because people are going to be stretched to get there and get the work done, they're going to be fighting with schedules, they're going to be trying to find people and train people, and that's going to cost money. And prices

71:53are going up everywhere. Oh yeah. I haven't seen the labour increases that we've seen in material increases. No, it has not kept pace. Yeah, the percentage increase in material costs is way higher than what labour has gone up. Labour's gone up, but not — it's gone up, but I've never been able to increase it that much. Yeah, you're just going to press yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And like I said, then you're dealing with the whole

72:21production thing, right. You bid these jobs at a certain hourly rate and a certain production, and you've got to hit the production. Sometimes that's very difficult to do, especially with a whole bunch of things — like we were talking about with the schedules and overlapping and getting everything. You end up bringing in a lot of people to be able to do that, but then you can't hit the targets because they don't have the experience needed to be able

72:46to hit the targets, and now it starts costing you. So it's difficult to manage a schedule right now — it's tough. Yeah, and I see that right across the board on any of the jobs that we're working on. I think it's not just a Century thing — yeah. This is an industry thing. What we used to be able to do five years ago, we're not doing now — it's taking us longer. Yeah. So how do you find the receptivity and the

73:12schedules that are being proposed? Like, is the GC — well, I think sometimes the job is just to push it through anyway, like it always is, whether it was realistic in the first place. Yeah. Sometimes — for me, on some of the projects we're working on right now, it's kind of embarrassing, really, to go in and put out a schedule and then in two weeks you're completely off of what you just submitted. Like, yeah — it's

73:37almost like it's pointless sometimes. And we're trying to work that out — yeah, yeah, yeah. We're trying, we're trying to work that out. It's difficult. It's difficult to schedule, especially here in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick with the weather we've had in the last two weeks — or a month — with the rain. I know, right. We're all outside and the production is low. I mean, Jason's dealing with that on the roofs. And one good thing about it

74:09on the roof when it comes to the rain — with the rubber — yeah, well, with the rubber it depends on what you're laying. But you don't really want to. Unfortunately, the job we were on — yeah, we had the rubber down, it was an inverted roof, so we could still put the insulation down, we could still put our patio stones down and stuff, so we kept them busy that way. But yeah, the weather — I just had this conversation with Jeremy

74:32and I think it was Tuesday — the weather's just been — he said what's delaying, and I said nothing but the weather, right. Yeah, like, I don't want to go and open up a roof with a 3% chance of showers today, and all of a sudden it changes and you flood the hospital, right. Yeah, like that — I don't want that. We don't want that. So you sort of — yeah, okay. Like there was one day we thought

74:55it was going to rain — it was supposed to rain — we told the crew not to come in, and it was all cloudy all day. But by the time you figure that out at 10 o'clock, it's hard to get the crew back. It's tough to know whether to pull the trigger on it. Yeah. So I can make that call, but then I rely on my foreman, right. They're the guys there every day, they've been doing this for 20 years, and

75:14they could say, listen, it's gonna rain — you might not think it's going to rain, you might look at the forecast, but they just sort of know the feeling. So you've got to trust your team out there. Yeah, yeah. I can remember when I was working for a roofing company, we were doing a job in Saint John. One of the owners, he was like their project manager. We're putting the roof on, it was nice for once — nice and sunny in Saint John.

75:37I'm almost pounded out, and he looked out — he was looking out over the hill — and he said, no, it's going to rain this afternoon. There's not a cloud in the sky. And by — you know, sixth sense, eh? Yeah, he just knew. He said, no, I can feel it. He said, we're good, we're gonna do this, we're gonna finish it off. So I knew we had done what we'd done, and I said we've got to put more down. He said, no, it's going to rain within an

75:56hour, the clouds are rolling in. And it was raining. I'm like, okay, I'm not gonna question you again. Right. So that's been — you're very subject to the weather on roofing, right? Yeah, yeah. But one thing — being diversified too is that that crew on some of those rainy days was able to go down to the cladding job. Yeah. And because our cladding guys — a lot of them, depending on if it's raining lightly, there are areas they can still work. Certain sides of the

76:19building — but it's a big enough project. Yeah, there are areas that they can still work. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So hopefully it'll turn around and we'll get going. But schedules are — yeah. But yeah, the schedule thing is a challenge. I had a foreman one time — I gave him a schedule, being on the project management side, you give them a schedule, and he just — yeah, okay — it was just, it's only as good as the paper it's on. But yeah, there are a lot of people

76:49who, as a subcontractor, see a schedule and yeah, you know. But then to see the work that goes into some of those — as a PM — they're almost like a legal document in some ways to the owner. Like, there are different phases, all the preliminary stuff before it's turned over — yeah, job starts and then — yeah, that's right. But I know it's just one of those things — it's never going to be perfect. But yeah,

77:15you try to do better. If you're not hitting the targets, then you've definitely got to examine it and see what's happening. Why are you so far off? Because for us as a subcontractor, we don't want to be giving garbage to general contractors and to owners — that's not our intention. Or holding up the job, right. And there are other trades behind you — which maybe isn't as — you guys being off affects them in the end.

77:43Yeah, yeah. But you just want to do your best for contractors, right. And to hand them something — then you're getting a call in two weeks saying like, what the heck, and then you say, oh, I'll give you a new schedule, it's gonna be better, and then two weeks later they're like, what the heck. You know — your first roofing job with Iron Maple? No, it was with Horizon Health. Okay. It's just like that — now you have a

78:08relationship there now. Yeah, you know, they're gonna have that stuff come up and there's an inroad, and hopefully get in there. And then with Iron Maple — I mean, we didn't come in cheap. Coming into the industry I said one thing I'm not going to do is buy a job. So we've got one job with Iron Maple that we were successful at, and then we flipped another roof in Sussex, but we lost out a few thousand dollars, but they stuck with what we proposed to

78:32them. So one of the things I found in the roofing business, talking with sales guys and stuff, is that every roofer thinks that when you come in you're trying to underbid them, you're trying to cut-throat them, and all that. Yeah, I don't want that. While that goes on, yeah. So it's great that, yeah, we've been on the same jobs — you guys are — yeah, but we're not trying to buy the job. We're

78:58losing jobs, we're getting jobs. So yeah. A different dynamic to roofing than cladding, probably? Yeah, like you want the high-end architectural finish — and maybe they're still both volume games, like you need to do a lot of volume. Yeah. Roofing seems to be a little more like — yeah, roofing is: get in there, get done, get out, get to the next job, right. So yeah. But you still want to do a good job — you don't want to be called back in a week or two because it's leaking. Or yeah,

79:23you don't want the reputation — yeah, they just came in and threw it together, they had problems. Yeah, you get a bad reputation out there. Don't want that. So I mean, I like to go in and do a good job — I treat it as if it's my own place, make sure it's done right. Yeah. And I tell the guys, I said, treat this as if it's your home. Would you do that at your house? I've been like that through

79:42my whole career. Yeah. Would you do that at your home? Yeah. Would you accept that? Yeah. So we do have a good group of guys. They come from the industry — they might have thought, but I actually got complimented for taking them because they were a problem somewhere else. And I look at it as — yeah, they might not have liked them, but they're in an environment now and they're flourishing. Right. Sort of like the Vegas Golden Knights, right? You

80:06take all the misfits and — championship team. Yep, six years later, a championship team. Right, they just put them in there. That's good — in the finals, eh? Yeah, I couldn't believe they just stopped — oh yeah, I think they're so good. Yeah. No, it's — so anyway, that's the way I look at it. I was driving down and that's how I look at my roofing crew. We just took a bunch of misfits — or considered misfits — and now they're knocking it out of the

80:30park. So I'm hoping — yeah, and that's my goal. Like, I'm helping Iron Maple — they had a problem with roof drains. It wasn't my concern — they had to have the roof drains ready for us. But I said, listen, give me a minute, let me make a few phone calls, let me see if I can find you something. That was going to work — it wouldn't work, it didn't meet spec, and I said, well, we can put some temporary drains in for you. Right, so like,

80:53I like to help the GC also solve the problem. Yeah. I don't want to just — and sometimes there were setbacks. I've had so many different experiences. Yeah, you've got a very well-rounded background. Yeah. So I like to go in and help with the problem as well. And probably usually that's going to be a good thing. Every now and then maybe you get involved in something — yeah, sometimes. Sometimes you're like, oh, why'd

81:17I do that? But that's what I want our reputation to be, right. Yeah, these guys come in and do their job, and they care about the whole project. Yeah, and they're problem solvers. So one of the first things I hashtagged — what I coined when I came on with Jeremy — was that I want to provide smart roofing solutions. And that's what we want to do: we want to do it the smart way, not just

81:42do it — we want to give them something that's cost-effective, a durable system. We want to do it the smart way, we want to do it quick, we want to do it right, and get out of there. Make some money. Not just 'hopefully'! Yeah, I do that sometimes for a reaction. But no, like I think — and that's why I want us to be known. So I'm not going in like — when I go to do Iron Maple, we're gonna knock it out of the ballpark for them. But I want that next job, I want them to come to us. And I also

82:06want them to be able to come to us: okay, we've got this design-build — what do you recommend for a roof? And be able to say, here's what you should put on. They're going to think of you, they will make that call. Yeah. So it's not going to happen overnight, but we're on a good path. And I think within the next year or two we're gonna get those calls, right. We're gonna have MARCO calling us and saying, we've got this design-build

82:31project — what can we put together for a roof system? Or we're going to have the Iron Maples, or whoever, right — or even the private GCs — saying, what do you recommend? Hopefully that's the goal, that's the long-term goal. So did you guys look at anything at the Richmond Yards project? Richmond Yards — yeah, we priced — put together some prices on that. First three buildings? Yeah, the towers. Yeah, yeah. I know when we got a

82:55call back on it, we just had to re-look at our numbers and stuff, but yeah, we weren't successful. But that's fine — I mean, you can't do it all. And then you look at a thing like that — there are eight more buildings planned over the next many years. I think I might be off by a few, but it would probably be pretty amazing to be able to just look into the architects'

83:19offices in the city and to be able to see the stuff that they're working on right now — whether it's in one year or four years. Yeah, amazing. To know what's coming up — it would be mind-blowing, I would imagine. Yeah, I think you're right. I think it is. I mean, we just have a small pulse on things here, but look — talk to the WM Faris Architecture team, who does a lot of the design for

83:48not just the Faris group developments but a lot of other developments in the community, and the developers — and the 177 Towers is probably about 20-something stories up now, it'll be the tallest building. Yeah, the first was Richmond — now everything's above 30 storeys, right? Broke the record — 27 was the highest for a long time, now everybody's breaking the 30-storey mark. Yeah. There's lots of stuff planned for the Mic Mac Mall area, yeah, in the next few years, and that's just like the tip of the

84:10iceberg. It's pretty insane. Yeah. We had started making some calls into Ontario and looking at pricing some work there. Yeah, because you haven't — yeah, yeah, we've started. And I was up there in Niagara this past week, and went downtown Toronto — I lived there, like I said, right out of high school, so back in 2000. Some connections, yeah. So when I come back from Niagara I was like, okay, I'll get to the airport

84:39this way, and like, I'm pretty good at remembering roads and highways and whatnot, and you'd think I could find my way around there. I mean, I've been back there since, but I recognize the names of the roads. I was like, oh my word. And then to go downtown and see all the buildings that are there in the last 20 years — it's crazy. Yeah, yeah. And so you can see it's kind of booming too — yeah, a lot of places inside the GTA. Yeah, yeah. Oh

85:06yeah, Mississauga — Mississauga had some really signature buildings there downtown when I was there. I think they just had been getting them finished, and now there are buildings everywhere — all kinds of high-rise buildings there. Yeah. So not — I mean, the same thing is coming for Nova Scotia. I'm sure that Halifax — the buildings are 30 storeys now, they'll continue to grow. Yeah, for sure they will. Would you send local crew from here

85:31out there, or just kind of hire from the pool there? Yeah, probably a little bit of both, I would say. Yeah, yeah. Send a key guy for the site and then hire some local — trust level, you know, at first. Yeah, in order to be able to build some teams there. Yeah, yeah. But there's definitely a market there for more players, and lots of work. Oh yeah, there's plenty of work. And I think — you know, you

85:57know your industry whether it's roofing or cladding — the material costs so much, and your labour is going to cost so much, and it really comes down to who's busy and who's not busy. Yeah. What kind of profit margins people are putting on — there's not a lot of economy of scale. Yeah. I don't think we're seeing — we're not seeing where, you know, you're coming in like Jason had said — we're not buying jobs up or trying to take

86:28jobs for nothing. You just fit into that market, and everybody seems to be busy. Like I say, there are buildings going up everywhere. So if I don't get that next job and somebody else does, then it's the next one coming, and we're gonna do it. And as labour shortages continue and buildings continue to increase, there's always going to be work, right. There's always going to be stuff to do. Yeah. I thought of something that

87:01you know, Paul Fournier — when I worked at Vic West, I remember him saying — the management — so when I worked there, Peter McNabb — I don't know if Peter McNabb is still — he's not with them anymore. Yeah, yeah, Peter's awesome. Yeah, yeah. But anyway, Paul would always say: because if it was a slow period where you hadn't had any tenders out for like a week or two weeks or something, and the offices were getting, you know, head

87:28offices getting concerned that nobody's bidding or whatnot — he's like, the work is going to come. You just have to be patient, the work's gonna come. Like as a younger contractor, you know, I always made a lot of mistakes. Yeah. You would get hung up on a job because you really put a lot into it, if you really wanted to get that job, and then you didn't get it. And then like two months later you're

87:56like, yeah — no way. So I've been doing it — well, I think this year it's 30 years since I entered the construction side — and I haven't been unemployed yet. So you know, it's always been — been through some recessions and stuff — but it just seems the construction side always continues growing. It keeps going. And Atlantic Canada has always been really kind of steady, right. There's always been this consistent

88:21work. It's not like — well, I mean, it seems like Nova Scotia now is more inside of a boom, if anything, when you're looking at the construction going on. As far as construction — it's not — but it's not like, you know, Toronto and Vancouver where you would have massive booms and populations shifting and moving in major swings. It's always just been a steady thing in Atlantic Canada — there's always been work. You've never really — yeah. But now it seems like, especially

88:54here in Nova Scotia, it seems like on the construction side there's more here than ever. It's a combination of there's more work and there's less workers. Yes, that's right. That's right. Yeah, yeah. We've got to close that gap somehow — we're all in this together. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah. Anything else either of you — Jason or Jeremy — want to mention before we kind of wrap things up?

89:22Anything for exposure, or just something we maybe didn't talk about — we talked about a lot of things, touched on a lot of stuff. Anything on your mind? No, no. I think we covered it all. I mean, we're just — oh, it's been a great opportunity. Like I said, Jeremy and I have been in talks maybe now for a year and a half, and it's been great coming on board with Century — great company to work for. Look forward to it. Yeah. It seems like a

89:49really good place too — you know, with the diversification, different scopes and full building envelope, and then different offices in the three provinces. You've got a lot going for you — a good situation there market-wise too. It's always going to be challenges, but yeah. Yeah, I mean, on our growth structure and our plans, we definitely have big plans for Nova Scotia. We really want to see our office — even

90:20our office and field teams all equally grow. We deal with — over the last two years, probably two years ago, we ended up hiring some students that came from India and did the construction management program in Moncton. And they had an engineering degree, so, you know, trying to get their courses approved here it's been a challenge — they're working through that. But right now I think in our office in Woodstock and in Nova Scotia, I think we have

90:49almost seven people from India that — wow — that are working for us. So it's — yeah, you mentioned diversified: we are diversified in many ways. Yeah, in many ways. And we're just looking for talent and skill. If anybody feels that they could be a fit, or wants to add to Century, our doors are definitely open and we're looking for some good people to fill some good seats. Amazing, yeah, yeah.

91:14Anything else either of you — Jason or Jeremy — want to mention before we kind of wrap things up? Anything for exposure, or just something we maybe didn't talk about — we talked about a lot of things, touched on a lot of stuff. Anything on your mind? No, no. I think we covered it all. I mean, we're just — oh, it's been a great opportunity. Like I said, Jeremy and I have been in talks maybe now for a year and a half, and it's been great coming on board with Century — great company to work for. Look forward to it. Yeah. It seems like a

91:37really good place too — you know, with the diversification, different scopes and full building envelope, and then different offices in the three provinces. You've got a good situation there market-wise too. It's always going to be challenges, but yeah. Yeah, I mean, on our growth structure and our plans, we definitely have big plans for Nova Scotia. We really want to see our office — even

92:06our office and field teams all equally grow. We deal with — over the last two years, we ended up hiring some students that came from India and did the construction management program in Moncton. And they had an engineering degree, so, you know, trying to get their courses approved here, it's been a challenge — they're working through that. But right now I think in our office in Woodstock and in Nova Scotia, I think we have

92:42almost seven people from India that — wow — that are working for us. So it's — yeah, you mentioned diversified: we are diversified in many ways. Yeah, in many ways. And we're just looking for talent and skill. If anybody feels that they could be a fit, or wants to add to Century, our doors are definitely open and we're looking for some good people to fill some good seats. Amazing, yeah, yeah.

93:11So hopefully those people tuning in — I'm sure they will. Could be architects that might consider a single-ply option, or developers if they're out there and want to know about it — give us a shout, right. We have the support team, and not just us, but even the other roofing companies have the same support team that we have. From a design standpoint, it's a phone call away. You can bring in — I can bring in Richard Green, which is

93:41the Carlisle technical rep for Atlantic Canada. We can bring in — Arrow has Craig Appleyard, they have Mike Happier, they have a bunch of guys there that are very knowledgeable in it. Same here in Nova Scotia — those guys just love to get in there and work with you, and they've been around it for so long. They just love to get in there and work — they're like us, they like to be right from the beginning and say, here's what we

94:05recommend, and they'll help you put this out. And one of the biggest challenges we found, talking to some of the architects — once you try to give them the alternate option, it's: well, we don't want to go back and redo all of our details, we have all of our details done. Yeah, that's tough to do for architects. Yeah. So we're doing a big job in Plastrock, New Brunswick, and that was one of the comments — they came to us and

94:28like, yeah, but the savings were so significant they wanted to entertain it. And I said the big challenge was: all of our details are — yeah. But then I went and told him, I said, you don't have to do that. Go to the Carlisle web page — they have all their systems, they have all the details, all the CAD files. You can download the CAD files, you can download the PDF. So I said, listen, I'll give you guys — we'll

94:55put that all in as part of our as-builts, right — we'll give you this full package. So that's one of the biggest challenges. I said, yeah, you have that support, right. So I mean, I see good things. I know when I started with Jeremy I had something in mind and I was on the lower scale and Jeremy was up here, and I'm like, my eyes popped open — I was gonna put my résumé out again. But I said, this ain't gonna work, I'm gonna

95:19be looking for work in 12 months. But no, we sort of came to the middle, and the first couple of months was like, oh geez, are we gonna pull this off? And I'm always thinking. And then all of a sudden the floodgates open, and we're almost to that threshold now. And I can probably see starting in the fall we might surpass that. Really? Yeah. Right now we're booked up to the middle of

95:45September. If you asked me that in January or February — would have had this podcast — I would have said, yeah, maybe. Yeah, there's lots. So there's lots of stuff happening at Century, and yeah, we really appreciate the time and the work that you're doing, and bringing this stuff all to the forefront of construction. It's awesome to be part of your program. I appreciate that. Yeah, as well, Jason. Yeah, no, great opportunity.

96:11Yeah, yeah. My first podcast! There you go, man. It's not as hard as it looks. No, no. Yeah, you do a great job. Yep. All right, guys — cheers. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Cook Insurance, your trusted insurance broker in Atlantic Canada for 50 years. Insurance is complex, and the Cook team focuses on delivering comprehensive solutions for your construction needs, including builder's risk, wrap-up liability, performance bonds, and project-specific construction. A NaviCord partner since 2020, Cook is one

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