Hurricane-Proof Concrete Homes Are Coming to Atlantic Canada — Maritech's Residential Tilt-Up Bet (Jim Allison & Phil Farrow)

0:00This episode is brought to you by our presenting sponsor Payzant Building Products. Payzant Building Products has been providing contractors and builders with the supplies necessary to complete their jobs since 1964. They've built a reputation of honest, helpful, and quality service serving the HRM for the last 58 years, now with seven locations in Nova Scotia and one in New Brunswick. All right, welcome back to the Atlantic Construction Podcast. Excited today to have with us Phil Farrow and Jim Allison from Maritech Construction, and yeah, thanks for being here, guys.

0:39Thanks for inviting us. Excited to be here, yeah. We got a beautiful day, a great view there. It is — the calm after the storm. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. And you were saying, Jim, that you guys had a bit of damage at — is it a horse barn that you were working on? Yes, for the Sobeys family, yes. The roof, yes. We sustained a little bit of wind damage. Yeah, I'm sure there's lots of them out there. Oh yeah.

1:06Yeah, you know, ripped the sheets right off the roof. So yeah, what kind of roof was it? A metal roof? Yeah, yeah, standing seam roof actually. So right, it was quite a bit of rain — we need to take that off. Yeah, it's a big barn, you were saying too, right? It's a big, beautiful barn. Yeah, isn't it. Show horses and yeah, where is it? Right on the water? It's not far from the water. Yeah, I didn't — Pictou County. Yeah, yeah. It's — how would I say it — it is the

1:38Yellowstone of Pictou County. Yeah, you guys watch that show? Yeah, I watched it, it's good, it's good. Yeah. It's a solid, solid show. I don't know if they came up with season five or not. I think they are. Yeah, yeah. Do you guys do quite a bit of work with the Sobeys family? In my past life I did a lot of work with them. Let's talk about that. We usually start by getting a little bit of, you know, our guests' journeys and how

2:06they kind of got where they're at, and let's get some backstory — that's how we usually start. So maybe we can start with that. Jim, you were at RCS for a long time, and then you headed — is it A3 Electric? A3 Electric before that, yes. Yes, yeah. And Highland Electric. So yeah, yeah. And A3 Electric is the mother company that owns — what people won't recognize that name, but they do recognize the name Plexus, because Plexus is owned by the A3 corporation, which was my corporation,

2:36which we sold, you know, to move on to other ventures. Right, so okay. And your time at RCS — you were there for 11 years? 11 years. And there wasn't one day that wasn't exciting, I'll say that. Yep. You're allowed to spread your wings and you're allowed to do things, and yeah. You must have been there right — I guess you were there until — you were saying earlier till 2018. So you're kind of there through a lot of

3:09big growth, and yeah. I like to say all the — when I first joined them, they only had the one office. It was in Bedford. And then with my help we opened up in Moncton, because of my contacts in Moncton — because that was a bread-and-butter place at the time. Did you grow up there? No, no. I grew up in a little town outside of Moncton, okay. Little town. It's the city now, it's a city. Everybody knows

3:42— sorry, everybody. It's — well, if nobody's there, it's still my little town. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. But I went to Moncton in my 20s. In my 20s I was in business by the time I was 24. So, anyways, I developed a lot of contacts and everything, and Doug and Bruce at the time thought that I would be a good guy to go start that office up there, and of course I pushed that envelope. Yeah, and we got

4:16that going, and it's thriving, thriving today. Good for RCS. Yeah, that's awesome. What about yourself, Phil? I know we've had a few hockey players on the show, so I wanted to mention that you played at Plattsburgh in New York in your university days. Yep, yeah. So I went to university there for four years, and prior to that I went to high school in the States, so I was away for quite a while for hockey. For hockey, yeah. And then father started

4:46Maritech in 2010. So right out of school I hopped in. That's Brian Farrow, for our listeners. Brian Farrow. And other than that, yeah, I've had many different hats in the business throughout the years, so I've seen everything kind of develop firsthand. It's been fun. What are some of the projects you guys have currently underway right now that you're working on? We've got a couple of huge ones. I really can't say the name of

5:16it right now — it's a little bit confidential. A little confidential. We're starting it in about three weeks, but it is in Nova Scotia, okay, and it is going to involve a large, very large tilt-up. It'll be our first large tilt-up and we're super, super stoked about it. Awesome. Yeah. Just for some context for our listeners — Maritech, kind of the vision, the goal, is the design-build. It's a very relationship-driven company, you were saying prior to us going live, and it's kind

5:51of finding that niche. You're not necessarily, you know, bidding on public tenders, competing with other GCs. There's always competition, but your niche is kind of Butler-style buildings, tilt-up construction, as a design-build general contractor, and very much relationship-driven. Is that — does that — yeah, we don't use the word Butler, it's a bad word. So Robertson. Yeah, I guess this is one of those brands that — yeah, it sticks in people's heads, right. Yeah. So for all our sponsors,

6:23yeah, we push Robertson buildings. Yeah, yeah. What's the generic term? Is this a steel-erected building?

6:34Yeah, yeah. So you guys have kind of just — you know, you have your relationships with certain people, and that's what your focus is on: the design-build, and then on to the construction management of the job. Yes, yes, yes. For the commercial side of it for sure. Yeah, but since we've opened up the residential side of tilt-up construction, obviously we're going to be making a lot of new relationships with a lot of new people,

7:03which has already started, yeah. And going very well. So yeah, that's an interesting topic — tilt-up and residential. I'm sure there's probably people thinking, beautiful. Yeah, because that hasn't been something that's very common, and that's something that you guys are kind of working into the business model to specialize in. Yes, yes. And you do have some projects that are kind of in the works, so you probably can't mention, but yeah — New Brunswick, maybe? Yep, yeah, yeah. The New Brunswick

7:36project is for one developer, and he wants to start with 150 homes. So that's really nice. We're really excited to get involved with them, and he thinks it's a no-brainer. He would like to see the whole subdivision built in tilt-up, and he wants to target the senior communities — older people that don't want to live in buildings, they want to live in their own house. So the design — everything is on one floor. But I mean, these homes are virtually no

8:11maintenance. Not multi-level homes — no, single story. Single-story homes built for — well, my age and up. No stairs. Yes, no stairs. No stairs, yeah. And they utilize all the energy efficiencies in it. Like, the homes come — they're all in-floor heat, sort of in-floor heat everywhere. We're heating them with hot water tanks. So your energy costs, if you're used to paying $300 a month for energy costs, well it's going to go down to $75 — kind of a thing. So it's the energy savings and the

8:51sustainability of the houses, right. Yeah. Because there's so many variables — not just the fact that the envelope is concrete and it's tilt-up, but yeah, you've got the in-floor heat. Yeah, yeah. And we literally can build a hundred of the same house, but no two houses will look the same, right. You know, we could put a brick exterior on one, we could paint — yeah, we could change the reveals on the exterior to give it a different look. And so you

9:24get those possibilities, right. You guys are trying to build an in-house team to do this in-house, right — the labor portion of this tilt-up construction for residential. Yes. And so that's going to be a major focus moving forward. Yes, it is for sure. We're pretty excited. So what does that process look like — different from typical commercial tilt-up? A little bit, as far as the process of installation. But anybody who's worked on tilt-up commercial can easily do that. Yes. Yeah. I would say it fits very similar.

9:57Yeah, it's very similar. A whole lot more attention to detail on the residential side. Like commercial — you can make little deviations, little mistakes in reveals and you're never going to see it. Yeah, exactly. You don't see it. The walls are massive, you know. These here are short walls — they're not that tall. If there's an imperfection you're going to see it. So the quality control on a residential is a couple of steps higher than a commercial building. And commercial buildings, the quality control is already

10:32top level, right. Yeah. So you've got to be even more precise, especially when you're only going up one level. Then your crane situation is a lot less demanding too, right? Yes, yes, yes. We're going to put them up with, you know, 100-ton cranes. On a commercial building you'll need your 400-, 500-ton cranes to lift those panels. Is there some projects, Phil, that you worked on with your dad Brian and with Maritech — this is 2010, when the company's conception literally started?

11:04Yeah, the winter of 2010, okay. I think I came in in the spring. So the first year or so I was just cold calling — just basically letting people know that Maritech was around and we had started. So I didn't get heavy into, you know, on-site work — kind of site suping and stuff like that — until a year after that. And I mean, growing up I was a laborer in the summers, that

11:34was kind of my summer job every summer. Kind of grew up around it. Yeah. When you weren't playing hockey. Yeah, that's right — on the construction site. Yeah, pretty much in the summers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I mean, you know, a year of business development and sales — and it's got to be difficult to get a small construction firm off the ground like that in that regard. You know, like a design-build GC like that, until you find

11:59good clients, and then you get rolling with some repeat clients. I'm sure you've been doing work for the same people the last 10 years. We do have some repeat clients that have been really, really good to us over the years. But Brian as well — he's been in the business his whole life too. Yeah, and he had connections, yeah, reputation. So that's kind of where we started it. And I would literally just go door to door and say hey, this is what we're doing. And

12:25you know, eventually it started paying off. Is there any project that kind of stands out to you, since 2010, that you've worked on as a site super or in Maritech — you know, the milestone projects, or something you took a leap on? Well, the substantial project I did would have been the Home Hardware in New Glasgow, okay. And that was probably the second year into Maritech. So that was a 30-some-thousand-square-

12:55foot retail store with the lumber yard. And after that I kind of took off with them. Right. That definitely sticks out in my mind. Were you guys — was that construction management or was that a GC? We were GC. Okay, yeah. On most of the jobs, GC for you guys? Yeah, yeah. You don't typically do CM work? Oh, we do, yeah, we do. We do both, like everybody. Yeah, you can take whatever. Exactly. Yeah, and as far as laborers — is there always

13:25— was there always an in-house kind of labor force with Maritech, or is that something that you kind of worked towards? We've always had a small core of labor in-house. Yeah. Kind of the way we look at it: if it's something that isn't a sub-trade scope, then our people will pick it up and take care of it. Sure. And are there trades that you kind of stick with all along the way? I mean, you're always

13:50tendering out, looking for the best price, but yeah — trades that you have. I mean, you build relationships with trades over the years and get to know people and kind of know what you're getting and what you're dealing with. But at the same time we're always looking for new trades as well. What was it like for you, Jim, when — in 2019, when you got a call from Brian and you moved over to Maritech, kind of starting with a

14:15smaller — maybe smaller is the wrong word, I mean just a smaller team — from a company that had just grown so much. What was that transition like? Actually, it was a pretty easy transition, because I had just experienced it, right. So it was easy for me to know what worked from where I came from, yeah, and what was going to help Maritech, right. And Brian is very bright — he's a very bright individual, I must say — and Brian saw the value in that. So it was easy to

14:48set Maritech up and put them on the right path for growth, right. Yeah. So you kind of shared the same vision, and you had just gone through that for 11 years with another company. Yes, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you get right in the middle of it. So I'm putting that 10 years or 11 years of experience to work for somebody else, right. And yeah, it's kind of nice. Did you say you were considering

15:17retirement at that time? Well, actually I was — I was kind of retired. Yeah, yeah. So much for that. I had actually set up a little consulting company and I picked up a few clients on the way, but they were sporadic, going and going. And then COVID hit. I was actually working on quite a large project — Partners for Care — which I can't talk about because I'm not allowed to; I signed a non-disclosure on that. But we took it right to the pretty-well-getting-ready-

16:01to-build stage. Sure. And then COVID hit and so the job got canned and all this. So I was pretty quiet when Brian called, which I didn't mind at the time. It was a good time. And yeah, so anyway. And he called and said, well, this is more full-time. The consultant gig is good but it's sporadic. Yeah, you know. So talk about the vision for Maritech — I mean, Brian's not with us, but you know, we've got Phil and

16:29you, Jim. Is there a long-term goal? Obviously you talked about the residential tilt-up stuff, which is very unique. But is there any other part of the vision you can speak to, as far as where the company's headed over the next five, ten years, or what the long-term goal is? Well, the vision is we want to be the biggest, the best, the most proficient tilt-up contractor in

16:58Atlantic Canada. Is that for commercial and residential? Yes, yes, yes, yes. We'd love to see Maritech being known as one of the experts and one of the go-to's. So anytime another GC is building a tilt-up or wants to bid on a tilt-up, they'll use us as a sub. And we'll go put the tilt-up up for them, okay? Right, and then walk away. And so you're pricing those projects as a

17:33Yes, yes, we're quite able to do that and we're willing to do that. And does the scope stop at the tilt-up then, as far as — usually it does. Yeah, usually does. We'll take it as far as they want it, but most GCs say okay, you put the structure up for me, we'll take it from here, because we're the experts, right. Yeah, yeah. We're not there to step on anybody's toes, or compete with them — we don't want to compete with them, right.

18:01Right. So you'd be subbing out the tilt-up from Stevens, or Lindsay Construction, or Iron Maple — any of these companies that are looking to get that done but can't perform it in-house at that time? Yeah, well, the companies you just named all can perform it in-house. Yeah, but there are thousands of other GCs that are not capable of doing tilt-up. And trust me, we've gone through quite a learning curve. You just don't say you're going

18:35to be a tilt-up contractor — it's just not that easy, right. Talk about some of the details — why it's not that easy — for our listeners. Well, the main thing is: where do you get the training? Where do you get the experience? If you've never built one — where do you get that? And where do you get the manpower with the capability to get certified? Where do you get that? And those are all kind of trade secrets right now with

19:06— we're lucky that I found Maritech a mentor in Ontario, and he's working with us. And they're actually going to supply the supervision for the first one or two projects, right, and they're going to take our men for three or four weeks — whatever it takes — for training and for certifications. Yeah. You've got something to add there? No, I was just thinking — we went in and met this company that he's talking about in Ontario, and this was all new to me

19:39at the time as well. And that day they had numerous projects at different phases, so we got to see it firsthand. And there are a lot of different tricks and different knacks to doing this efficiently and properly. So I'm looking forward to learning more from them. And so as far as the residential tilt-up — is that something that you're going to try to advocate for with Maritech? You know, you're talking to developers, you're talking to

20:10finance groups, or you're talking to builders, to try and advocate for that option? Absolutely. Is there any kind of long-term plan just to educate people? I guess that's the common-sense thing to do — try and advocate that that's a good option out there, because there's probably a lot of developers that wouldn't even know they could consider such a thing. Yeah, and they're going to know shortly, because we've got our costing down now. Like, we know what the cost per square foot is

20:38now to do a residential tilt-up. So now it's the time to start educating, because now we've got costs to compare to. And we've got lots of cost comparisons on typical construction versus tilt-up to discuss with them, right. And it's a lot of different variables too — other than cost. You know, the cost is one; the speed and process of the build is twice as fast; the quality of the build — there's lots of variables. Yeah. In-floor heat, yeah, elimination of trades. Like, you know, take framers —

21:14right now, a wood framing crew. Take a wood framer right now: they're so busy, they are so busy. You can't find anyone to bid on small multi-res wood-frame structures in the city. That's for sure. It's everywhere — you can't find them, nobody will price them. No, that's right, that's right. Wood trusses right now, the delivery is super long. Yeah. And the cost isn't four times as high for wood right now, but it's still higher than it was three years ago. Right, yeah.

21:40Yeah, yeah. Well, we're eliminating wood trusses right out of the thing. And can you build a multi-level home with tilt-up? Yeah, actually in Atlantic Canada we've got the capability to build up to six residential stories. Yeah, yeah. So that would be an apartment building, for example? Yeah, multi-res. So six stories — and we've got two or three in design right now, being priced out for some clients, that will probably be going. Wow. Yeah, we've also got a two-story

22:19house to develop as well. Correct, yeah, yeah. So yes, you can do two stories, right. See, when you said single story, you were just referring to that specific project — that's confidential — but those 150 homes or whatever there are, they just happen to be single story. Yes, yeah. And those — we can show some renderings and pictures for our listeners and stuff, but they're really a neat design. They're so modern-looking, right. Yeah, they've got that modern architectural look. Exactly. They're

22:49super sharp. I love them. Yeah. So what about — is there a specific architecture firm that you're starting to work with on some of these residential tilt-ups that's becoming more groomed in that process? Is that an issue? It absolutely is an issue. Our architects that are not familiar with tilt-up don't understand tilt-up. They're very — they would have to go through a learning curve too. So we sourced out, through one of my

23:23past relationships, probably the largest tilt-up architect in North America. So they're out of Texas, but they've got offices — say, name the company. Yeah, Powers Brown Architecture. Okay. Yeah, the guy's name is Bruce Wolk, and they're based in the States. And they do have an office here — they've got offices in Toronto, Vancouver, and St. John's, Newfoundland. Okay. In Canada. Now, not only with the architecture — we said, well, it's the structural. Structural means a lot, right. So we sourced out LJB structural engineers. Yeah,

24:01structural engineers. They're also out of Texas. So couldn't you use someone here — like, could you use a local firm? We can, but there's going to be a learning curve, right. We don't want that, yeah. We're going to be learning here, and the thing is: who around here in structural has 2,000 tilt-ups under their belt in designs? Right, right. There isn't very many firms that come close. So for us, for the comfort level, yeah. And they're saving us money — they're saving

24:32us money because they've made all the mistakes in 2,000 designs. You know, they've run up against every block and corner and challenge that they could, and they figured out a solution, right. Right. And so for this project in New Brunswick — I'm not going to pry — the 100-and-some single-story tilt-up homes: is that something that this development group or this builder came to you and wanted to do, or did you pitch the idea to use tilt-up? No, we pitched the idea.

25:03We pitched the idea. The only thing I will tell you is that it wasn't a very hard pitch. The developer is European — I'll let that out of the bag. He's European. He understands concrete. He didn't really understand tilt-up, you know, the sandwich-panel tilt-up panel, but he understands concrete coming from Europe. And his interest was piqued really quick, right. Because he doesn't want to build a typical house with wood and siding and, you know,

25:40a fake brick on the front kind of a thing. Yeah. In 20 years' time it looks like it's 20 years old, right. So he wants to build a house that in 20 years' time still looks brand new, which he'll get out of the tilt-up, right. Yeah. And so we'll show some of these renderings, but as far as the aesthetics — the architect you're working with and this European developer — the cladding situation there: is it some masonry, some clay brick, some mac

26:08metal, like metal linear siding? Or is some of those exterior finishes just painted? It's all of the above. All of the above. It's all of the above. There are virtually no limits to the exterior you can put on. Yeah, well, no — you can put your liners in for your different exterior designs. So, like Jim said, it really is endless on how you want the outside of your facade to look. So just for our listeners who are tuning in and like

26:42give us a tilt-up 101. You know, how many car dealerships are tilt-up? Most, right? A lot of car dealerships are tilt-up. They've learned long ago about the energy efficiencies. And so there are a couple of variables that mean the most. One is energy efficiency, because of the sandwich panel — the concrete, the heat retention, that kind of stuff. It's the speed of construction with your building envelope, because that's the shell — it takes the longest. You know, it's the part of

27:16the building that costs the most and takes the longest. Yeah. So tilt-up has always been one of those things where certain types of construction just always seem to go that way. Even a lot of office buildings in Burnside are tilt-up. Yeah. Height and open span are two big things. Yeah. So we can pretty well build them, and we can build larger spans without a lot of centre columns and stuff like that. Yeah, which makes, you know, retail and warehouses easier to rack.

27:45Also, the other thing — you know, these are concrete walls, so you're getting a lot less damage inside your building and outside if, you know, forklifts run into them. Yeah. And for our listeners — it's the 29th of September, we're recording this. The episode will drop in a few weeks from now. But we're just post Hurricane Fiona here, four days later. And we were talking before the episode. Jim and Phil feel that, you know, people would hear this and think, geez, it might be nice if I lived on certain shores in

28:17Port aux Basques, or on the weekend in Cape Breton, if I had a tilt-up constructed home. Yeah. No question — so there's another big thing too. I mean, if you know there's a hurricane coming once every couple of years, yeah, this thing could really take off for those kinds of reasons, right? Yeah. I mean, especially if you're talking about homes that are close to the water and are vulnerable during certain kinds of weather. And these hurricanes seem to be coming more and more frequently. So yeah, it's definitely something to think

28:46about. Yeah. I was talking to a tilt-wall contractor in Ontario who is also looking to get into the residential business. And he said that he gets a call a day from California — like, will you come out here and build me a tilt-up house? You know, wildfires. Right, the wildfires. Yeah. So a tilt-up house would be the perfect house to live in if you had to live through a wildfire. So you've got your hurricanes, you've got your floods — they're

29:21impervious to mold. Obviously, the right conditions — everything will get mold — but they're impervious to both. So, like, to be in a flood zone and get five feet of water in them, the cleanup is going to be a lot less, a lot less damage. You're not going to have to rip walls out, you know what I mean. You're going to have to dry them out and things like that, but your house is going to be back to normal much, much faster, much, much less expensive. Yeah. It makes me think,

29:51because I know I remember reading up on, like, a lot of homes in the States were being built with structural steel studs in certain parts, you know, just different construction in different countries and different climates and stuff. How much is tilt-up construction for residential — is it popular in certain areas right now, or has it been growing in the States, has it been growing in other countries that you're aware of? I'll just give it a little example of what's happening in the industry. So one

30:21of the largest suppliers of the materials needed to go into those structures when you're building a tilt-up is a company out of Ohio — Dayton Superior Products. So they came down to visit us. Obviously they're very interested and very excited to see us in the residential end of it. As a matter of fact, they're huge — they're a huge company, very huge worldwide for tilt-up. And they're actually separating the division and they're going to make a residential division. I don't know how many millions of dollars

30:57they're going to spend to make this division, but they said they have to, because it's getting so, so busy where they are, that they want to make a separate division. And they said, like, nobody in Atlantic Canada is doing this, and you guys are so on the right track. I just want to tell you guys — you are so on the right track. And first to market is going to be the best, guys, right? That'll be us. When other companies see our success, I

31:25have no doubt they're going to copy us. But listen, we're going to be so far ahead. And there's room for competition — competition's good sometimes, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So as far as Maritech, Jim — with yourself in business development and the management team, Phil on site super and management as well, your father Brian the owner — is there anyone else involved in the management end other than the three of you at this time? Well, we've got Ali in the office as

31:54well, who's a project manager. Okay. That would be sort of our leadership team in the office. And then we've got site supers out in the field as well, and, you know, a certain amount of carpenters and laborers. Yeah. So what's the in-house — you know, kind of building this tilt-up installation team — is it five to ten guys at this time? Are you working towards a larger crew? A little bit about that. Yeah, so we're going to start with eight

32:27guys in the field — eight guys in the field — and we'll expand from there. Yeah. And eight guys can handle a lot of large projects, right? Like, an eight-man crew for a tilt-up — they could build an Amazon, yeah, right. And so you're working your way up to a higher number? Yeah. As — well, we'll train those guys and then, you know, they'll be the experts in their fields and they're going to pass on their knowledge to more crews.

32:55And so eventually, you know, we could have a New Brunswick crew, we could have a Nova Scotia crew, we could even have a Prince Edward Island crew, we could have a crew in Newfoundland, right. And grow from there, right. Yeah. And this is something — you could be doing a lot of subdivisions with multiple townhouses. I mean, you could have crews in different provinces, you know, if this tilt-up residential stuff really starts to pick up, right? Yeah.

33:22And that — you might already have stuff on the books that you will have going in six months from now. The only thing, without letting my cat out of the bag, is it's looking really good. It's looking great. Yeah. It's looking really good. Oh, that's good. That's exciting. It's exciting to see a new kind of — new method of construction, and residential especially. Like you said, with how hard it is right now to find wood framers — oh, oh, everything.

33:51And even the foundations — to get a foundation contractor right now, you're looking six months to a year out. Yeah, yeah. So the numbers are just astronomical. You know, when everybody's so busy the numbers start climbing up, but some of the numbers these days on tenders is just insane. Everyone's so busy. And what you could build a house for seven or eight years ago — what you can build a house for now. Oh yeah, yeah. And they're not coming back down. Yeah, they're definitely

34:22not coming back down. So the costing for these tilt-up method homes — how much more expensive than a typical home? So a custom home — which is what these would be comparable to. So a custom-built home. These are not cookie-cutter homes, they're custom-built homes. Most of the finishes in them are pretty high end. No — we're actually on the other end of the spectrum, we're lower. Yeah. So and what you get as an end product — for us it's a no-brainer,

34:58and not a hard sell when we can get face to face with the client, right. Because the costs are less and the quality is higher. The types of finishes are better. Yeah. The sustainability, you know, the maintenance factor, the — I call it the sex appeal — is better. Yeah. So yeah. So do you think — you know, like you said, if you're first to market, you're always going to have people come along. Competition is healthy. Do you see some of the companies that are

35:37providing tilt-up in-house now with their own crews on the commercial side — a lot of these companies, they're not going to enter into the residential realm, no matter what. But do you see some companies that are already doing tilt-up commercially that could easily just start taking on residential work if that becomes a thing? Yeah, they could, they could. But most of them right now are awful busy doing what they're doing. Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. But hey, like everybody's an opportunist, right? So if they see this taking off,

36:10and we prove the concept — which we're going to — we prove it. Yeah, no, no, they're going to jump on board, guaranteed. Alright, guaranteed. Yeah, yeah. So we're prepared for that. We're actually looking forward to it. So, all right — how fast do you think this will take off? Like, do you think that — I think we're going to see this a lot. You know, in the near

36:39— you're not seeing it yet, right? There isn't anything. No, really? Yeah, no. But you're going to — you'll see it before the spring. Like, the completed projects? Yes, yes, yeah. Wow. Yeah, yeah. And that's the other thing too — we can build all through winter. Winter doesn't stop us from building. And actually our first job looks like it's going to be through the winter. So yeah, yeah. Isn't that nice, when they hold off just long enough so you can start in November and December — it's usually the

37:11way it works. Yeah. A lot of that was us too, though — going through, like, held up because they were interested a while ago, some of the clients, but we had to do our due diligence, and our training, and our cost analysis, and we had to go through all that, right. So we're only at that point now where we could prepare to sign a contract with a set price. So do you — you know, as far as your experience with RCS and

37:46we were talking a little bit about Traction before — what are your thoughts on, you know, if you're with a small team, a smaller group, some systems that can be put in place as far as delegating and just structuring the business in a way that it kind of manages itself instead of consuming everybody that's involved? What are your thoughts on Traction itself? And then, what are your thoughts on some companies that are

38:19smaller that need a little bit of that but not the whole thing — specifically in construction? I'm a believer in Traction. I'm not a believer in the whole system. I don't think it was specifically geared for the construction industry, but there are — 70 percent of Traction is definitely geared for all companies, construction included. So as far as the structure of visionary, implementer, operator — those kinds. Yeah, yeah, exactly, understanding — yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. So there is a lot of Traction that would help

39:06the small, up-and-coming commercial and residential tilt-up contractors — like with Phil and Brian. Yeah. I have, actually. What are your thoughts on it, Phil? As far as you know about it? Yeah, I'm not entirely familiar with Traction, but I can appreciate what you're saying. In a small company it is hard not to consume yourself with everything all day, every day, right. So it's definitely something that we have had talks about, and hopefully

39:37in the future we can work our way towards, you know, like you said, the machine can kind of run itself. Yeah. So we're not there yet but we're working on it. Yeah. We've implemented a lot of things — like a board of directors meeting every week, you know, accountabilities, giving everybody their challenges, their rocks. That's right. You know, what's the vision going to be. Like, we have implemented a lot of Traction things right now. A lot of these things where Jim

40:15kind of brought his knowledge to us, and we've made a lot of these changes in the last, you know, year and a half. Well, it's like — yeah, there's so much opportunity and it's so easy to get taken off focus if you're not clear on your vision. You know, opportunities present themselves — does it fit with the model? Or is it going to be a high margin but it's just going to take up too much energy and it's not really our

40:43thing? I just feel like — especially as a design-build general contractor — one of the things you mentioned you do is stay away from the public tenders, because it's just not — I mean, you'll bid them if you need the work, but it's not your thing. And I think that's a lot of people's mentality too, because it's so competitive and so condensed. In construction, so — you stick to those repeat relationships, design-builds, construction management, or GC, and it's repeat work,

41:13and it's much more feasible. Right? It's just that simple. That's the fundamentals. Yeah. No, I think that's the avenue that we're trying to take. And like you said, that doesn't mean we won't look at tendered work — if there's something there that we think we can put a good shot at, then we'll definitely look at it. I just found in the past it's extra work, you know, it's extra paperwork — it's more time-consuming, it's a battle

41:46to begin with, right. Yeah. And then add in all the extra legwork that goes with it, and your margins are even slimmer. And you're competing with like five to fifteen other GCs. Yeah, larger ones. Yeah. And you go to these site meetings to look at a project and there's 15, 20 people there. Yeah, yeah. So it's quite a bit of competition. He who makes the biggest miss gets the job — that's what they say. So yeah. Unless you miss something. Yeah, yeah.

42:15But getting back to Traction — like, there's lots of it. We've implemented a set of core values now, and we have all the staff, right from the sites right to the office, living it. And we call it our CATT — C-A-T-T: communication, accountability, teamwork, and transparency. The big one is the last T — the transparency. Like, our clients that we deal with, they know how transparent and honest we are. Like, we don't hide. We don't hide stuff. It's not a crime to make money —

42:51we show them the money we're making. Right. Yeah. There's no shame in that, there's no shame in it. And that transparency thing is what our clients really love about us — they don't feel like there's any funny business going on behind the doors. Can I say that on here? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that, and like — we've got our project coordinators, our estimators, everybody. If you ask anybody in the company what our core values are, they'll spit it off to you.

43:23And so it's the core focus. As you narrow into this realm of residential tilt-up, is that going to kind of steer the company away from some of the things you're doing now, as far as some of the projects you're taking on commercially? Or do you still see yourselves having both sides? Well, I think I can see us keeping both sides of it going, especially in the tilt-up. Yeah, you know, we'll definitely stay on the commercial side of things.

43:52You were mentioning earlier about — when you were with A3 — the project on the Confederation Bridge. I wanted to mention that just for our listeners. I think it's — oh yeah. You helped — how many years ago would this have been? When you reinstalled — it wasn't the pendants for all the 400-and-some lights on the Confederation Bridge. 471, yeah. It was just the light fixtures. The light fixtures, yeah. The light fixtures on the bridge. Yeah, yeah.

44:21The manufacturer was having problems — not necessarily their fault, but they were having problems with the fixtures. Basically the light standards on the bridge were becoming tuning forks and just shaking the living daylights out of the fixtures, and they weren't lasting. So the movement — the oscillating of the lights on the bridge. Yeah, yeah. Like, you've got a bridge moving up and down — which it's designed to do — all the time. The heavier the traffic, the more it moves. And then you've got the wind coming

44:52up the Northumberland Strait, you know, and it's always like — 30 kilometres an hour is a nice day. That's right. Right. Hitting it sideways. So it was making those steel light standards take a beating. Yeah. All right. So the manufacturer — because they were in litigation with the GC that did the bridge and the electrical contractor — they wanted to go to an outside source for the solution. So that's where they came to us. And one of the reasons they came to us is because I had

45:24implemented ISO standards — ISO 9002, or 9001 — I forget, it's been so long. Yeah. But anyway, we were on our way to being certified. So to work on the bridge, they wanted you to be certified in ISO — so that helped us. That's why they came to us. So that's pretty high up — those lights, because I think the centre of the bridge is a couple hundred feet, right? It is. Whatever the height of the pendants are for the lights — and then another 60, 50,

45:5560 feet probably. Yeah, 30. 30. Another 30 feet. And when you're looking over the edge, yeah, it's a long way down. It's a long way. We were losing a man a day — I mean, to nerves. To nerves. Yeah, to nerves. Sometimes they came back, sometimes they didn't. But it's a neat story. I mean, that's pretty unique — a unique contract to get. Yeah, not your usual, right. And he said he did it twice too — they called you up to do it again? Yes.

46:23Who are they going to call? And who they gonna call next time? I'd do it again — just do it through Maritech. Yeah, there you go. That's it. Phil likes that idea. Yeah, yeah. Try anything once. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, this has been great to chat with you guys. Is there anything else you want to kind of get out there to our listeners, or kind of promote on behalf of Maritech? I mean, we talked a lot about the company and this

46:52new plan for residential tilt-up, and that's certainly an interesting one. Yeah. So the two T's in our core values — the teamwork and the transparency. We've implemented a construction software, which a couple of the other big guys have already done too, but we were actually first. What platform is it? It's Procore. Okay. So we use Procore. We've been — they were using Procore before I joined them, and I thought — most people are using Procore now.

47:27Yeah, but within the last 10 years. Yeah, we use it all the way through — we use it right from when we get the call about the job, it gets entered into Procore. Like, we use it — without any internal systems of your own, you're using Procore right? We're bidding through Procore, managing the project from start to finish on Procore, which — from my opinion, from a project manager's point of view — it's really changed the game for me. Just for the flow of information. And like Jim

47:58said, the transparency — there's daily logs every day, there's pictures every day, so they're seeing it — and it's live updates of the job sites. Yeah, it's vastly integrated. It is vastly integrated. Right from point A — to decide to bid the project, to substantial completion. Yeah, yeah. To all your shop drawings, all your sub trades are on there. And as a former project manager, you see that. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. I mean, Fieldwire is another one, there's different ones,

48:31but yeah, Procore seems to just have the industry cornered, all across the globe, really. Yeah. I've looked at them all — Procore was the pick. Was the pick. Like, even in my past life, you know, we tried to work with a local company out of New Glasgow with another system, and it was good, but it's no Procore. Procore was the only one that had the complete package. Right. So it's not cheap — or some of the differences that you found? You say 'complete package' —

49:05was there anything that stands out that you can detail for us? Well, just the fact that it's so integrated across the whole process. Yeah. Like, we had to use a different program for, you know, with the other one that we were trying — which was working, but it was more cumbersome for the site super to work with and all that. Well, in Procore it's all on the one app. Everything is on the one app,

49:36everything is just tabs. It's simple to use, it's easy — it's a point and click. Yeah, right. Fill in a couple of notes. Yeah. For our listeners, I mean — anyone on site can download the app on your phone, you've got the system downloaded on all your desktops and your laptops. And it's just — as any kind of construction management — it's phenomenal. What you can't do without it once you start using it. Yeah, I couldn't imagine going back now. Yeah, yeah. Awesome, guys. Yeah.

50:06Anything else, Phil? You know, anything you want to add or finish with? I think I'm good. I just want to say thanks for having us today. I really — it's a cool experience. I've never done a podcast before, so yeah, the nerves were there. But I want to say thank you. Oh, you did great. And you too, Jim. It's always an interesting time just to hear, you know, so many different unique companies out there. So many people — you think of companies that

50:31have become a little more well known just because they've been around a long time — and organically that's just naturally what happens, they grow. But there's so many companies out there that are doing awesome things. And it's neat to sit with you guys and talk about this, especially about this new residential tilt-up thing. I'm just thinking about all the listeners who still have no power, they're cleaning up damage to their homes right now from last weekend during Fiona. If you're

50:59thinking, man, I hope that takes off fast and we can have one of those built for next year, or the next time the next hurricane comes around. So, next week I'm in Denver, Colorado at a tilt-up convention. And one of the seminars I'm booked into is actually tilt-up and Net Zero — like, it is the perfect construction method if you're thinking Net Zero. Yeah, you want to get — who isn't thinking Net Zero now? You want to get off the grid, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm

51:30going to be bringing back a ton of stuff, a ton of knowledge on that. You know — to the T, tag along? No, I don't — something else. No, no, he's too busy. Yeah, I've got to stay here and get some work done. Yeah, yeah. No, it sounds like a good time. Jim, have a good time in Denver, and yeah, thanks for doing this — it's been great. It's been great chatting with you both. Awesome, awesome. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks, guys. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. This episode is

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